Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 182 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15312683


:D


wat0n wrote:Al Quds day was literally invented by the Ayatollahs in 1979 :lol:


I already said its origins are in Iran. So unsure what your argument here is meant to prove. :lol:

What I said above was true though, Muslim and Arab countries all over the region celebrated Quds day this year as they do every year. And some of us did the same in Western countries where protests were held in many cities.

In the meantime, Jordan helped stop Iran's attack on Israel. There seem to be no major consequences of doing so for the monarchy.


Aside from the daily protests for the last few weeks in Jordan, something unseen in some time in Jordan where the masses are generally repressed from such things. And despite the arrests and ongoing repression, the protests continue.
#15312693
skinster wrote:I already said its origins are in Iran. So unsure what your argument here is meant to prove. :lol:

What I said above was true though, Muslim and Arab countries all over the region celebrated Quds day this year as they do every year. And some of us did the same in Western countries where protests were held in many cities.


No, they did not. It's a fringe celebration, essentially popular among those who support Iran. Good luck doing this in the UAE, Saudi Arabia or Bahrain.

skinster wrote:Aside from the daily protests for the last few weeks in Jordan, something unseen in some time in Jordan where the masses are generally repressed from such things. And despite the arrests and ongoing repression, the protests continue.


Yet they are not threatening the government. The Jordanian government is just letting them blow off some steam.
#15312697


wat0n wrote:No, they did not. It's a fringe celebration, essentially popular among those who support Iran.


Some examples:










Good luck doing this in the UAE, Saudi Arabia or Bahrain.


No protests can be held in these Western colonies / Arab dictatorships.

Yet they are not threatening the government. The Jordanian government is just letting them blow off some steam.


Why have they arrested so many and attempted to repress the protests if the government is simultaneously "letting them blow off some steam." and you and I both know these protests do not bode well for the future, especially if you listen to the content of the chants at the protests.

The people in Jordan understand very well their dictator, King Abdullah, is a comprador for the Brits and U.S. and Israel.
#15312699
skinster wrote:Some examples:










It's hilarious that the only Arab country you were able to show here is Yemen, and that's in the Houthi controlled area :lol:

The rest are largely fringe, the type of fringe people are getting tired of.

skinster wrote:No protests can be held in these Western colonies / Arab dictatorships.


Unless they support the government, like the Al Quds day protest in the Houthis part of Yemen :lol:

skinster wrote:Why have they arrested so many and attempted to repress the protests if the government is simultaneously "letting them blow off some steam." and you and I both know these protests do not bode well for the future, especially if you listen to the content of the chants at the protests.

The people in Jordan understand very well their dictator, King Abdullah, is a comprador for the Brits and U.S. and Israel.


Because it's minor, it's not another Black September.
#15312705
Stop condoning Islam
Stop condoning Orthodox Judaism


Any solution to the problems of the Muslim world which includes Palestine must start with those two things. Muslims are almost incapable of sustaining democracy. Its time to face reality. If Muslims are incapable of asserting and sustaining their own democratic rights, it should hardly be a surprise that they don't put up much of a show for Palestinian democratic rights when they haven't succeeded in establishing their own.

Israel has relied on Orthodox Judaism to sustain itself in the demographic struggle against the Arab Muslims. However in the long run Orthodox Judaism may undermine Israeli democracy and the development of the Israeli nation state.
#15312741
The West now wants 'restraint'- after months of fuelling a genocide in Gaza
The Middle East is on the brink of war precisely because western politicians indulged for decades every military excess by Israel

Suddenly, western politicians from US President Joe Biden to British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak have become ardent champions of "restraint" – in a very last-minute scramble to avoid regional conflagration.

Iran launched a salvo of drones and missiles at Israel at the weekend in what amounted a largely symbolic show of strength. Many appear to have been shot down, either by Israel’s layers of US-funded interception systems or by US, British and Jordanian fighter jets. No one was killed.

It was the first direct attack by a state on Israel since Iraq fired Scud missiles during the Gulf war of 1991.

The United Nations Security Council was hurriedly pressed into session on Sunday, with Washington and its allies calling for a de-escalation of tensions that could all too easily lead to the outbreak of war across the Middle East and beyond.

"Neither the region nor the world can afford more war," the UN’s secretary general, Antonio Guterres, told the meeting. "Now is the time to defuse and de-escalate."

Israel, meanwhile, vowed to "exact the price" against Iran at a time of its choosing.

But the West’s abrupt conversion to “restraint” needs some explaining.

After all, western leaders showed no restraint when Israel bombed Iran’s consulate in Damascus two weeks ago, killing a senior general and more than a dozen other Iranians – the proximate cause of Tehran’s retaliation on Saturday night.

Under the Vienna Convention, the consulate is not only a protected diplomatic mission but is viewed as sovereign Iranian territory. Israel’s attack on it was an unbridled act of aggression – the “supreme international crime”, as the Nuremberg tribunal ruled at the end of the Second World War.

For that reason, Tehran invoked article 51 of the United Nations charter, which allows it to act in self-defence.

Shielding Israel
And yet, rather than condemning Israel’s dangerous belligerence – a flagrant attack on the so-called "rules-based order" so revered by the US – western leaders lined up behind Washington’s favourite client state.

At a Security Council meeting on 4 April, the US, Britain and France intentionally spurned restraint by blocking a resolution that would have condemned Israel’s attack on the Iranian consulate – a vote that, had it not been stymied, might have sufficed to placate Tehran.

At the weekend, British Foreign Secretary David Cameron still gave the thumbs-up to Israel’s flattening of Iran’s diplomatic premises, saying he could "completely understand the frustration Israel feels" – though he added, without any hint of awareness of his own hypocrisy, that the UK "would take very strong action" if a country bombed a British consulate.

By shielding Israel from any diplomatic consequences for its act of war against Iran, the western powers ensured Tehran would have to pursue a military response instead.

But it did not end there. Having stoked Iran’s sense of grievance at the UN, Biden vowed "iron-clad" support for Israel – and grave consequences for Tehran – should it dare to respond to the attack on its consulate.

Iran ignored those threats. On Saturday night, it launched some 300 drones and missiles, at the same time protesting vociferously about the Security Council’s “inaction and silence, coupled with its failure to condemn the Israeli regime’s aggressions”.

Western leaders failed to take note. They again sided with Israel and denounced Tehran. At Sunday’s Security Council meeting, the same three states – the US, UK and France – that had earlier blocked a statement condemning Israel's attack on Iran’s diplomatic mission, sought a formal condemnation of Tehran for its response.

Russia’s ambassador to the UN, Vasily Nebenzya, ridiculed what he called "a parade of Western hypocrisy and double standards". He added: "You know very well that an attack on a diplomatic mission is a casus belli under international law. And if Western missions were attacked, you would not hesitate to retaliate and prove your case in this room."

There was no restraint visible either as the West publicly celebrated its collusion with Israel in foiling Iran’s attack.

British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak praised RAF pilots for their "bravery and professionalism" in helping to "protect civilians" in Israel.

In a statement, Keir Starmer, leader of the supposedly opposition Labour party, condemned Iran for generating "fear and instability", rather than "peace and security", that risked stoking a "wider regional war". His party, he said, would “stand up for Israel’s security”.

The "restraint" the West demands relates only, it seems, to Iran’s efforts to defend itself.

Starving to death
Given the West’s new-found recognition of the need for caution, and the obvious dangers of military excess, now may be the time for its leaders to consider demanding restraint more generally – and not just to avoid a further escalation between Iran and Israel.

Over the past six months Israel has bombed Gaza into rubble, destroyed its medical facilities and government offices, and killed and maimed many, many tens of thousands of Palestinians. In truth, such is the devastation that Gaza some time ago lost the ability to count its dead and wounded.

At the same time, Israel has intensified its 17-year blockade of the tiny enclave to the point where, so little food and water are getting through, the population are in the grip of famine. People, especially children, are literally starving to death.

The International Court of Justice, the world’s highest court, chaired by an American judge, ruled back in January – when the situation was far less dire than it is now – that a “plausible” case had been made Israel was committing genocide, a crime against humanity strictly defined in international law.

And yet there were no calls by western leaders for "restraint" as Israel bombed Gaza into ruins week after week, striking its hospitals, levelling its government offices, blowing up its universities, mosques and churches, and destroying its bakeries.

Rather, President Biden has repeatedly rushed through emergency arms sales, bypassing Congress, to make sure Israel has enough bombs to keep destroying Gaza and killing its children.

When Israeli leaders vowed to treat Gaza’s population like "human animals", denying them all food, water and power, western politicians gave their assent.

Sunak was not interested in recruiting his brave RAF pilots to "protect civilians" in Gaza from Israel, and Starmer showed no concern about the “fear and instability” felt by Palestinians from Israel’s reign of terror.

Quite the reverse. Starmer, famed as a human rights lawyer, even gave his approval to Israel’s collective punishment of the people of Gaza, its "complete siege", as integral to a supposed Israeli "right of self-defence".

In doing so, he overturned one of the most fundamental principles of international law that civilians should not be targeted for the actions of their leaders. As is now all too apparent, he conferred a death sentence on the people of Gaza.

Where was "restraint" then?

Missing in action
Similarly, restraint went out of the window when Israel fabricated a pretext for eradicating the UN aid agency UNRWA, the last lifeline for Gaza’s starving population.

Even though Israel was unable to offer any evidence for its claim that a handful of UNRWA staff were implicated in an attack on Israel on 7 October, western leaders hurriedly cut off funding to the agency. In doing so, they became actively complicit in what the World Court already feared was a genocide.

Where was the restraint when Israeli officials – with a long history of lying to advance their state’s military agenda – made up stories about Hamas beheading babies, or carrying out systematic rapes on 7 October? All of this was debunked by an Al Jazeera investigation drawing largely on Israeli sources.

Those genocide-justifying deceptions were all too readily amplified by western politicians and media.

Israel showed no restraint in destroying Gaza’s hospitals, or taking hostage and torturing thousands of Palestinians it grabbed off the street.

All of that got a quiet nod from western politicians.

Where was the restraint in western capitals when protesters took to the streets to call for a ceasefire, to stop Israel’s bloodletting of women and children, the majority of Gaza’s dead? The demonstrators were smeared – are still smeared – by western politicians as supporters of terrorism and antisemites.

And where was the demand for restraint when Israel tore up the rulebook on the laws of war, allowing every would-be strongman to cite the West’s indulgence of Israeli atrocities as the precedent justifying their own crimes?

On each occasion, when it favoured Israel’s malevolent goals, the West’s commitment to “restraint” went missing in action.

Top-dog client state
There is a reason why Israel has been so ostentatious in its savaging of Gaza and its people. And it is the very same reason Israel felt emboldened to violate the diplomatic sanctity of Iran’s consulate in Damascus.

Because for decades Israel has been guaranteed protection and assistance from the West, whatever crimes it commits.

Israel’s founders ethnically cleansed much of Palestine in 1948, far beyond the terms of partition set out by the UN a year earlier. It imposed a military occupation on the remnants of historic Palestine in 1967, driving out yet more of the native population. It then imposed a regime of apartheid on the few areas where Palestinians remained.

In their West Bank reservations, Palestinians have been systematically brutalised, their homes demolished, and illegal Jewish settlements built on their land. The Palestinians’ holy places have been gradually surrounded and taken from them.

Separately, Gaza has been sealed off for 17 years, and its population denied freedom of movement, employment and the basics of life.

Israel’s reign of terror to maintain its absolute control has meant imprisonment and torture are a rite of passage for most Palestinian men. Any protest is ruthlessly crushed.

Now Israel has added mass slaughter in Gaza – genocide – to its long list of crimes.

Israel’s displacements of Palestinians to neighbouring states caused by its ethnic cleansing operations and slaughter have destabilised the wider region. And to secure its militarised settler-colonial project in the Middle East – and its place as Washington’s top-dog client state in the region – Israel has intimidated, bombed and invaded its neighbours on a regular basis.

Its attack on Iran’s consulate in Damascus was just the latest of serial humiliations faced by Arab states.

And through all of this, Washington and its vassal states have directed no more than occasional, lip-service calls for restraint towards Israel. There were never any consequences, but instead rewards from the West in the form of endless billions in aid and special trading status.

'Something rash'
So why, after decades of debauched violence from Israel, has the West suddenly become so interested in "restraint"? Because on this rare occasion it serves western interests to calm the fires Israel is so determined to stoke.

The Israeli strike on Iran’s consulate came just as the Biden administration was finally running out of excuses for providing the weapons and diplomatic cover that has allowed Israel to slaughter, maim and orphan tens of thousands of Palestinian children in Gaza over six months.

Demands for a ceasefire and arms embargo on Israel have been reaching fever pitch, with Biden haemorrhaging support among parts of his Democratic base as he faces a re-run presidential election later this year against a resurgent rival, Donald Trump.

Small numbers of votes could be the difference between victory and defeat.

Israel had every reason to fear that its patron might soon pull the rug from under its campaign of mass slaughter in Gaza.

But having destroyed the entire infrastructure needed to support life in the enclave, Israel needs time for the consequences to play out: either mass starvation there, or a relocation of the population elsewhere on supposedly "humanitarian" grounds.

A wider war, centred on Iran, would both distract from Gaza’s desperate plight and force Biden to back Israel unconditionally – to make good on his "iron-clad" commitment to Israel’s protection.

And to top it all, with the US drawn directly into a war against Iran, Washington would have little choice but to assist Israel in its long campaign to destroy Iran’s nuclear energy programme.

Israel wants to remove any potential for Iran to develop a bomb, one that would level the military playing field between the two in ways that would make Israel far less certain that it can continue to act as it pleases across the region with impunity.

That is why Biden officials are airing concerns to the US media that Israel is ready to “do something rash” in an attempt to drag the administration into a wider war.

The truth is, however, that Washington long ago cultivated Israel as its military Frankenstein’s monster. Israel’s role was precisely to project US power ruthlessly into the oil-rich Middle East. The price Washington was more than willing to accept was Israel’s eradication of the Palestinian people, replaced by a fortress "Jewish state".

Calling for Israel to exercise "restraint" now, as its entrenched lobbies flex their muscles meddling in western politics, and self-confessed fascists rule Israel’s government, is beyond parody.

If the West really prized restraint, they should have insisted on it from Israel decades ago.
https://jonathancook.substack.com/p/the ... aint-after


wat0n wrote:It's hilarious that the only Arab country you were able to show here is Yemen, and that's in the Houthi controlled area :lol:


The cope is real. :lol:

The rest are largely fringe, the type of fringe people are getting tired of.


You speaking about Zionism and Israel would be more accurate with a comment like that, now that Israel is a world pariah.

Unless they support the government, like the Al Quds day protest in the Houthis part of Yemen :lol:


No, those dictatorships don't allow protests. The last time people attempted to protest in Bahrain, the dictators brought out the tanks.

Also, it is not Houthis, it is Ansarallah, and they're the baddest motherfuckers of our time. I guess they make genocide fans like you sad because they are one of very few governments upholding the genocide convention.

Rich wrote:Israel has relied on Orthodox Judaism to sustain itself in the demographic struggle against the Arab Muslims. However in the long run Orthodox Judaism may undermine Israeli democracy and the development of the Israeli nation state.


#15312745
skinster wrote:The cope is real. :lol:


Not at all. If anything, the only cope here is yours given how you swear Israel is committing genocide yet at the same time Hamas has been able to repel it from Gaza.

skinster wrote:You speaking about Zionism and Israel would be more accurate with a comment like that, now that Israel is a world pariah.


It obviously isn't, the only thing we're seeing is the usual bloc politics.

skinster wrote:No, those dictatorships don't allow protests. The last time people attempted to protest in Bahrain, the dictators brought out the tanks.


They allow protests if they are there to support the regime :lol:

skinster wrote:Also, it is not Houthis, it is Ansarallah, and they're the baddest motherfuckers of our time. I guess they make genocide fans like you sad because they are one of very few governments upholding the genocide convention.


This sounds like projection here.

Associated Press wrote:CAIRO (AP) — Two human rights groups Wednesday accused both sides in Yemen’s conflict of using starvation as a tactic of war. They urged the U.N. Security Council to refer the opposing participants to the International Criminal Court to investigate alleged crimes.

In a sweeping 275-page report, the Yemen-based Mwatana Organization for Human Rights and another group, Global Rights Compliance, said they documented airstrikes by the Saudi-led coalition that hit farms, water facilities and small fishing boats during fighting with the Iran-backed Houthi rebels.

The report also documented the Houthis’ restrictions on humanitarian activities, which deprived civilians in areas under their control of “indispensable aid, including food.” It also documented the rebels’ widespread and indiscriminate use of land mines, which have killed and maimed shepherds and their livestock and prevented farmers from accessing agricultural land, according to the report.
#15312752
Don’t Let Them Numb You To What’s Happening In Gaza
We’re not SUPPOSED to be unaffected by this sort of thing. We’re not SUPPOSED to be able to find a state of psychological comfort with genocide. It’s not natural, and it’s not right. Man-made nightmares unleashed upon the waking earth are SUPPOSED to disturb us.

One of the reasons I often pivot to poetry and emotion-laden prose in my commentary on Gaza is because it’s so very easy to let ourselves become numb to the horrors of what’s being done there day after day and month after month — but it’s so very, very important not to.

It would be so very easy to get overwhelmed and start letting one day of lies and atrocities blend into the next until it becomes this amorphous gray blob on the periphery of our attention. Reports like IDF sniper drones playing the sounds of distressed women and children to lure civilians out into the open and then shooting them, or Israeli officials ridiculously claiming they had no idea that blowing up a consulate building full of Iranian military officers would be seen as an escalation, have been coming out on a daily basis now, and it’s tempting to let yourself become overwhelmed and stop caring as much.

And it isn’t an accident that we are confronted with that temptation every day. Since day one the Israelis have been yanking public consciousness this way and that with astonishing atrocities, ridiculous denialism and high octane narrative spin, backed by the full might of the western empire and its peerlessly powerful propaganda machine. Every day we’re smacked in the face with new horrors, coupled with new statements from the Israeli regime taunting our sense of reality like “Heeheehee, did we do it? Who knows? No, we didn’t! But if we did it was good!” while western officials make vague obfuscatory statements that they need more information about each incident before taking a position and suggesting that the IDF needs to investigate itself to find out what happened. You’ll see them pour tons of energy into indignantly denying the very idea that Israel would ever attack a hospital, only to have them arguing that it’s fine and good for Israel to destroy every hospital in Gaza just weeks later.

This can break you, if you let it. It’s hard for the mind and heart to take such systematic pummeling, especially if you don’t understand that it is being done deliberately with a very specific goal in mind. The more westerners can be psychologically shoved into throwing up their hands and filing Gaza away in our mental “bad things in the world I try not to think about” drawer, the easier it is for Israel and its imperial backers to do the monstrous things they want to do there.

So I do what I can to help keep the reality of what’s happening in Gaza on the surface, not just in terms of the factual truth but the emotional truth of it as well. The horror. The suffering. That empathetic connection to the plight of our fellow human beings that can drive us to act, and to push for real change.

Don’t let these pricks numb you to what’s happening in Gaza. You can see plainly that that’s what they want, and you can see plainly what they’d stand to gain by pushing people into that state of numbness. So don’t give it to them. Ensure that, by the measure of at least one person, they fail toward that endeavor. And do what you can to ensure that they fail with others as well.

We’re not supposed to be unaffected by this sort of thing. We’re not supposed to be able to find a state of psychological comfort with genocide. It’s not natural, and it’s not right. Man-made nightmares unleashed upon the waking earth are supposed to disturb us.

Don’t let them take that away from you. Feelings are meant to be felt. Feel the grief. Feel the outrage. Feel the anger. Feel the pain. Let it come to you and say everything it wants to say to you, like you would with a small child telling you about their fears or their hurts. Write it down, sing it out, paint it, dance it, roar it into a pillow, throw rocks at it into a stream, whatever you can do to bring it into the world in a more tangible form. Let it wash through you, feel it completely until it has had its say, then get up, and keep fighting.

As we work our way into the monumental endeavor of creating a healthy world together, it’s not enough for us to be informed about what’s going on in the world — we’ve also got to have a mature emotional relationship with it. We don’t just need to have conscious minds, we need to have conscious hearts as well. If we don’t have a conscious relationship with our emotions, and if our emotions don’t have a conscious relationship with what’s going on in the world, then how can we hope to steer the world toward health? Caring and compassion are the only useful compass we have to navigate us there.

So shelter your caring from the efforts of the bastards to snuff it out, like a precious candle flame on a windy day. Even if we lose the battle in the short term, and even if we lose the war in the long term, at the very least you can deprive these freaks of that one little victory by continuing to care.
https://caitlinjohnstone.com.au/2024/04 ... g-in-gaza/




wat0n wrote:Not at all. If anything, the only cope here is yours given how you swear Israel is committing genocide yet at the same time Hamas has been able to repel it from Gaza.


Israel has been committing genocide against Palestinians for over 75 years since their country was stolen from them by racist European terrorist settlers. Everything following October 7 is the escalation of the genocide and the settler-colony is currently facing genocide charges by the international world court.

Hamas' ability to repel Zionist terrorists from their territory does not negate the genocide. It just shows what a formidable force Hamas are in protecting their territory. But it is also because Zionist terrorists in the IDF simply don't have the experience in fighting in combat, the cowards are used to bombing from the air or shooting from a distance. When they actually have to fight, many get killed, and as we all know, the Israelis don't like having casualties and combat results in that for them.

They allow protests if they are there to support the regime :lol:


Quds Day protests are not allowed in the Saudi Arabia, UAE and Bahrain dictatorships, or protests in general. Why would people in those countries where people are repressed protest in defence of their dictators, clown show?

This sounds like projection here.


An off-topic report from 2021 in response to me talking about how Ansarallah are badass for upholding the genocide convention is...a weird flex. Hasbara-troll fatigue appears to be setting in for you by the looks of it. :lol:

Another massacre of children playing, by Zionist terrorists:
#15312758

    Is Israel a “settler colonial” state?

    That charge has been the subject of fierce debate in recent months amid the continuing Israeli assault on Gaza after the October 7 attacks by Hamas.

    Colonialism is a system in which one people dominates another and uses the subjugated group’s resources for its own benefit (the British Raj in India is a classic example). Colonial projects take many forms, but Israel is accused of being the result of a specific variety: settler colonialism.

    According to the Cornell Law School Legal Information Institute, settler colonialism has “an additional criterion that is the complete destruction and replacement of indigenous people and their cultures by the settler’s own in order to establish themselves as the rightful inhabitants.”

    Settler colonialism does not have a definition under international humanitarian law (unlike many other terms used during this latest war), although Article 49 of the Geneva Convention prohibits certain actions often associated with that term; it is instead a concept that historians use to describe the system of replacing an existing population with a new one through land theft and exploitation, which is enabled by occupation, apartheid, forced assimilation, or genocide.



For those like @wat0n who have previously shown an inability to differentiate settler colonialism from other forms of colonialism.
#15312766
Zionism must be exposed and discredited
Zionism threatens political freedom in the United States and international order. There is only one way to fight this ideology. Those who oppose it must explain the truth to Americans: Zionism is racist.

You could not get a better picture of Zionism than from two recent events. Israel bombed a consulate in a foreign country – Syria – killing top Iranian military officers, among others, and Israel supporters in the U.S. forced the cancelation of the valedictorian address at the University of Southern California because the speaker opposes Israeli genocide in Gaza.

These actions are consistent. They are expressions of a maximalist ideology that operates on a global level to support the Israeli regime. That ideology, of course, is Zionism, the belief that Jews need a state in order to be safe. Today Zionism threatens political freedom in the United States and international order. It threatens the political tradition of liberalism in the United States by compelling Democratic politicians to pay for more bombs to advance a genocide.

Zionism destroys every good thing in its path.

After 150 years of struggle and practice, Zionism is dedicated to one purpose, the neverending subjugation of Palestinians, who resist their persecution.

There is only one way to fight this ideology. Those who oppose it must explain the truth to Americans: Zionism is racist. Its supporters must be called out and cornered and discredited—as adherents of a Jim Crow ideology.

I have always said that I might have been a Zionist in an earlier age. Zionism was a perfectly understandable ideology in light of European oppression of Jews. Jews left Europe as refugees, not supremacists. If Zionism had focused only on Jewish safety it might be a tolerable ideology today.

But from the beginning maximalist Zionists won out. They wanted more land with fewer Palestinians. For at least 75 years now this is the Zionist credo, and they repeatedly used terrorism to achieve that goal.

–In the 1920s the socialist leader Chaim Arlosoroff sought to advance ideas of national coexistence with Palestinians. He was murdered on the beach in Tel Aviv in 1933 by Zionist militias that later produced the highest officials in Israel.

–In 1949 a U.N. diplomat, Folke Bernadotte, who had saved thousands of Jews from Nazis during the war, sought to advance plans to keep Jerusalem an international city, as designated by the UN Partition plan. He was assassinated in Jerusalem by a Zionist gang that – again – later produced the highest officials in Israel.

–In the 1990s a Labor Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, declared that Israel would only have peace if it returned land to Palestinians so as to allow them to have sovereignty. Rabin was murdered by a rightwinger who enjoys deep political support to this day.

These murders arose from a consistent program: Israeli leaders have again and again told us that they will not accept a Palestinian state alongside the Jewish state.

Because of Israel’s defiance of international law in the occupied territory and its declaration of higher Jewish rights in the nation-state law in 2018, human rights groups worldwide have stated that Israel is an apartheid state.

Zionists have deployed the antisemitism charge against their critics. You just hate Jews. (No, we hate segregationists.)

Israel has used overwhelming violence to quash resistance. It has repeatedly massacred Palestinians, and in Gaza, in the last six months has indiscriminately killed tens of thousands of women and children, and aid workers. Any sensible person understands that this onslaught will only foster radical resistance.

I don’t support violence against civilians. It is why I have been outspoken against Hamas’s October 7 attacks, and the dehumanization that occurs on both sides in a war.

But clearly Zionism is the root problem. It is an ideology that treats Palestinians as lesser, in their own land. It brought religious nationalism to the Middle East and destabilized a region long before ISIS. It attacks villages so as to solidify “the Jewish majority,” and even the liberal wing rationalizes its actions. (“My father…. was a terrorist,” says Jeremy Ben Ami of J Street – an organization started to oppose Zionist settlements that has achieved nothing for that agenda in 15 years.)

Today Zionism is undermining American freedom. Zionists and sympathizers in the U.S. government pushed the Iraq war that destroyed Arab cities and the American image too. Zionist sympathizers are today justifying a genocide and denying the famine in Gaza– and getting Biden to sign off. The Zionist lobby has corrupted our elections, canceled free speech on a routine basis, wrecked the American Jewish community, and compromised some of the best minds of my generation (including Jewish writers in whom I have observed the tragic loss).

There is only one way to defeat Zionism. It must be indicted and described, as the racist antithesis of everything the American experiment has achieved. Its support must be harried, hectored, and starved. It must be defeated in the United States, in Congress, and at the University of Southern California. We will win, because we must.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/04/zionism- ... scredited/


Article above reminds me of that time Richard Gere went to the segregated city of Hebron under Israeli military occupation and freaked out at what he saw: "It’s exactly what the Old South was in America. Blacks knew where they could go: they could drink from that fountain, they couldn’t go over there, they couldn’t eat in that place. It was well understood you couldn't go here or you'd get your head kicked in...or lynched."
#15312769
@skinster it's interesting how you now justify the Houthis starving other Yemenis to death, I guess one can't expect more from someone who demands to watch rape footage to masturbate.

And dictatorships often use demonstrations by their supporters, and sometimes go as far as to force public servants to attend, as a show of power. Even the Nazis did that.

Pants-of-dog wrote:For those like @wat0n who have previously shown an inability to differentiate settler colonialism from other forms of colonialism.


And that is also not happening in Israel. There is no genocide, no forced assimilation, no mass expulsion - all proven by the rather constant increase in the Palestinian population.

But there was a clear project of forced assimilation when the Arabs conquered the area during the expansion of Islam as evidenced by the explicit inferior status of some of the previously established non-Muslim communities and the forced conversion of others. You still can't bring yourself to admit that, because that throws all these claims out of the window and therefore you can't use it to justify Hamas' massacre of October 7.
#15312771
Good interview here with Chas Freeman:


wat0n wrote:@skinster it's interesting how you now justify the Houthis starving other Yemenis to death, I guess one can't expect more from someone who demands to watch rape footage to masturbate.


It is interesting (and funny) that you keep saying such absurd stuff, that the only response I can garner is a: :lol:

I guess you're still using the hasbara playbook which instructs paid trolls for Israel to keep going on about rape where there was none. I suppose, at least you follow your instructions properly..

And dictatorships often use demonstrations by their supporters, and sometimes go as far as to force public servants to attend, as a show of power. Even the Nazis did that.


Again, a weird flex after you got sad about Quds day demos. :lol:

And that is also not happening in Israel. There is no genocide, no forced assimilation, no mass expulsion - all proven by the rather constant increase in the Palestinian population.


It's actually good to see Zionists display this level of delusion. I already am aware they are already there but the odd poster here or there who finally spoke out against the genocidal state can see for themselves what Zionists are like...and be further pushed away by their insanity. :excited:
#15312773
skinster wrote:It is interesting (and funny) that you keep saying such absurd stuff, that the only response I can garner is a: :lol:

I guess you're still using the hasbara playbook which instructs paid trolls for Israel to keep going on about rape where there was none. I suppose, at least you follow your instructions properly..


Still quoting the nonsense from the Grayzone, heh? Interesting way to justify demanding rape footage.

skinster wrote:Again, a weird flex after you got sad about Quds day demos. :lol:


Just showing how full of shit you are.

skinster wrote:It's actually good to see Zionists display this level of delusion. I already am aware they are already there but the odd poster here or there who finally spoke out against the genocidal state can see for themselves what Zionists are like...and be further pushed away by their insanity. :excited:


Well, thus far the one who's been supporting mass murder here is you.

The one who wants to watch rape footage is you.
#15312801






wat0n wrote:Still quoting the nonsense from the Grayzone, heh? Interesting way to justify demanding rape footage.


For someone who uses the Israeli government and Times of Israel (AKA the Israeli government) as sources, you're not really in any position to whine about others when they use independent, or any media. Which reminds me, remember when you used the @Israel Twitter page to claim babies were burned alive during the Israeli propaganda blitz right after Oct.7...and then it turned out to be some fake AI images? Of course you'll pretend you don't remember, but I do. That was very funny. :D But this is by the by.. But it is also in this thread in case you want to claim I made it up..

Also, this incredibly weird flex about accusing me, a woman, of demanding rape footage is very creepy. And when that's repeatedly ignored, you think you might up the ante by saying I want to masturbate to rape footage (which by the way doesn't exist). In case you didn't get it by now, this makes you look quite psychotic, at best. I've tried to ignore your repeated accusation of this; what I think you think might be an argument, but somebody should let you know how creepy it is. Particularly because self-awareness for Zionists is like kryptonite very regularly, and you seem totally oblivious to how you might appear to most normal people with such nonsense. Even though you're my opponent in this debate, I feel like I ought to let you know. THAT'S how much I pity your poor show. Did they really instruct you to accuse women of masturbating to rape as an argument to defend genocide? :lol:

Just showing how full of shit you are.


You could just stop responding when I proved you wrong about Quds day, but you would rather boringly drag it out and have me repeatedly point out how incorrect you are.

Well, thus far the one who's been supporting mass murder here is you.

The one who wants to watch rape footage is you.


Here it is again. :lol:

Again, a very weird flex coming from someone defending a genocidal state where systematic rape of men, women and children has occurred in Palestine during plenty of wars as well as in the prisons since day dot. Every accusation is a confession and your time is up. Maybe try to get more of your hasbara troll friends to enter this board because you're doing an awful job of selling that turd (Israel) one can never polish...
#15312807
skinster wrote:For someone who uses the Israeli government and Times of Israel (AKA the Israeli government) as sources, you're not really in any position to whine about others when they use independent, or any media. Which reminds me, remember when you used the @Israel Twitter page to claim babies were burned alive during the Israeli propaganda blitz right after Oct.7...and then it turned out to be some fake AI images? Of course you'll pretend you don't remember, but I do. That was very funny. :D But this is by the by.. But it is also in this thread in case you want to claim I made it up..


The photo of the baby the Israeli government uploaded was authentic.

I know that you can't understand that the media can, in fact, be private so I don't find it surprising to see you believe ToI is owned by the Israeli government. The Grayzone, after all, is a propaganda mouthpiece of the Russian government.

skinster wrote:Also, this incredibly weird flex about accusing me, a woman, of demanding rape footage is very creepy. And when that's repeatedly ignored, you think you might up the ante by saying I want to masturbate to rape footage (which by the way doesn't exist). In case you didn't get it by now, this makes you look quite psychotic, at best. I've tried to ignore your repeated accusation of this; what I think you think might be an argument, but somebody should let you know how creepy it is. Particularly because self-awareness for Zionists is like kryptonite very regularly, and you seem totally oblivious to how you might appear to most normal people with such nonsense. Even though you're my opponent in this debate, I feel like I ought to let you know. THAT'S how much I pity your poor show. Did they really instruct you to accuse women of masturbating to rape as an argument to defend genocide? :lol:


Being a woman who gets off to rape videos is even weirder. Fact is, you are the only one who's demanded to watch footage of rape.
This bullshit of "ooh I'm a wymyn I can't support rape" is nonsense.

skinster wrote:You could just stop responding when I proved you wrong about Quds day, but you would rather boringly drag it out and have me repeatedly point out how incorrect you are.


You didn't prove shit :lol:

skinster wrote:Here it is again. :lol:

Again, a very weird flex coming from someone defending a genocidal state where systematic rape of men, women and children has occurred in Palestine during plenty of wars as well as in the prisons since day dot. Every accusation is a confession and your time is up. Maybe try to get more of your hasbara troll friends to enter this board because you're doing an awful job of selling that turd (Israel) one can never polish...


Sure, rape supporter.

Again, you are the one demanding to watch rape footage here.

The ones agreeing with you here have also supported rape, by the way.

:)
#15312830
@wat0n

Your responses to @skinster are getting ever more desperate - Rape this, rape that, rape, rape, rape!

If you keep ploughing this furrow, we will soon be mistaking you for a @Puffer Fish.


:lol:


p.s. If these accusations are true, why is Israel obstructing the UN investigation into alleged rapes on 7 October?

Could it be that the Israeli police have been unable to find any victims – either dead or alive – of Hamas’s alleged sexual crimes?
#15312868
ingliz wrote:@wat0n

Your responses to @skinster are getting ever more desperate - Rape this, rape that, rape, rape, rape!

If you keep ploughing this furrow, we will soon be mistaking you for a @Puffer Fish.


:lol:


@Pants-of-dog

It's the proper response to the ridiculous accusations of genocide, even more so when the accuser justifies the October 7 massacre.

It is not my fault there are some people who want to virtue signal while demanding footage of rape and justifying a massacre. It is totally fine to put them in their place.

It is also hilarious that @skinster and @QatzelOk can insult me and other posters openly without any response on your end. Typical leftist double standards.

ingliz wrote:p.s. If these accusations are true, why is Israel obstructing the UN investigation into alleged rapes on 7 October?

Could it be that the Israeli police have been unable to find any victims – either dead or alive – of Hamas’s alleged sexual crimes?


We already have a hostage (Amit Soussana) who told the New York Times she was raped.

I bet you will now say she's lying.
#15312872
@wat0n

Well, it's a shame she didn't speak up earlier when police could have got a rape kit and gathered some useful evidence.

As it is it's just a story.


:)
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