Columbia faculty members walk out after pro-Palestinian protesters arrested - Page 32 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15315717
wat0n wrote:That was certainly not the CNN narrative. Have you forgotten about the actual reporting of the BLM riots?


I was referring to the campus protests when talking about Fox and CNN, not BLM.

And no, BLM was not simply about rioting. But it definitely was an example of using violence to achieve political goals, one that I am sure most Americans have not forgotten about - not unlike the Capitol riot.


Like these campus protests, almost all BLM protests were peaceful. Framing a peaceful protest movement as a series of riots is just dishonest and false.
#15315718
KurtFF8 wrote:Like these campus protests, almost all BLM protests were peaceful. Framing a peaceful protest movement as a series of riots is just dishonest and false.


Just like almost all the MAGA types at the Capitol on January 6 were peaceful. Most didn't go inside.

And you know what? In reality, the majority of these campus protests have not been repressed by schools or police either.

Even sources that do not consider actions like trespassing or harassment to be violent like ACLED say so:

ACLED wrote:From 18 April — when police arrested more than 100 students at Columbia University in New York — to 3 May, ACLED records over 550 demonstrations linked to the Israel-Palestine conflict occurring on university campuses across more than 450 cities in at least 35 states and Washington, DC. These include mostly encampment-style demonstrations, in which students have set up tents and other temporary structures on university campuses. Though campus demonstrations have been ongoing for just over two weeks, they already represent about 20% of all pro-Palestine demonstrations since the conflict reignited in October 2023. The demonstrations have been accompanied by calls for universities to divest their financial assets from Israeli companies or companies seen as assisting the Israeli military.

Nearly all of the demonstrations that occurred on college campuses — 97% — remained peaceful, while police intervened in more than 10%. In around 70 cases, universities responded to student encampments by calling for police to intervene and remove demonstrators on the grounds that they were trespassing. In some cases, demonstrators fought with police or threw hard objects at them during the intervention. However, roughly 14% of campus demonstrations with police intervention saw demonstrators become violent, while only 2% of demonstrations saw demonstrators become violent when police did not intervene.


As long as no harassment or vandalism happen, protesters are generally allowed to continue.
#15315719
wat0n wrote:Yet it is still university property, and as such it has the right to limit who sets up tent there.


Oh no! A tent!

Yet they were seemingly getting ready to do that.


No. That is supposition that cannot be verified, and shiuld be dismissed as a rationalization after the fact.

Please prove they were arrested for being Jews.


Right after you quote me claiming that.

But you seem perfectly fine with violence against Jews f it is dome to support Zionism.

The statement speaks of "axes", not "camp axes".


And?

I am definitely not certain there were even axes there.

Also, why would you need to chop wood if you're camping in an university campus?


I literally just gave a reason for having an axe on hand that has nothing to do with chopping wood.
#15315720
Pants-of-dog wrote:Oh no! A tent!


Constant public health hazard and noise that disrupts the learning process. Yup.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No. That is supposition that cannot be verified, and shiuld be dismissed as a rationalization after the fact.


There's no alternative legitimate purpose for collecting wood pallets, even more so when 3/4 of the campers aren't even students.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Right after you quote me claiming that.

But you seem perfectly fine with violence against Jews f it is dome to support Zionism.


No evidence, then. The cops were sent to clear trespassers out, not to beat Jews.

Pants-of-dog wrote:And?

I am definitely not certain there were even axes there.


I believe the University more than I believe you.

Pants-of-dog wrote:I literally just gave a reason for having an axe on hand that has nothing to do with chopping wood.


No, you did not. That is a reason for having a hammer, not an axe.
#15315721
Pants-of-dog wrote:Then why are the cops not being held accountable for beating protesters?

Why are Indigenous people not allowed to set up tents on Indigenous land?

How can laws be equal and just when a university can invest in regimes that commit human rights abuses and that is fine?

Why are you asking me these questions?

That is not the point.

The point is that the IDF and Israeli government are committing human rights abuses and this is reason enough to protest,

Ok and i've said they're free to protest. But nobody is free to break laws while they protest. And setting up encampments and barricades etc doesn't make the students Rosa Parks, it makes them entitled brats if they think they're allowed to do anything they want on campus property without campus permission. They're free to protest on campus all they want, they aren't free to occupy and live on the quad. Pretty simple concept.

If the IDF are shooting a rocket into a family home at a time when they are fairly sure that the family is at home sleeping, would that be considered an exmaple of the IDF “specifically targeting innocent civilians”?

If the IDF are targeting civilian homes just to kill innocent civilians then that's terrorism and an illegal war crime.

If the IDF launch a rocket at a home where a Hamas jihadist lives in order to kill the Hamas member, then no that's not terrorism, that's a military operation in self-defense with possible collateral damage, which occurs in ever war and is legal, but the IDF should be doing all it can to minimize collateral damage in order to achieve their objectives.

Yes, the whole outrage over tents does seem irrelevant when compared to IDF genocide, cops beating protesters, and the inherent inequality of the law.

Whattaboutism. Complaints about IDF abuses isn't an excuse to break US or Canadian laws.

This thread is about the protests against the Israeli occupation and genocide and the reaction by the state to said protests.

If you think the law is inherently just and equal, this fact needs to be explained.

It's a just law for property owners to have the right as ask the police to remove barricaded encampments from their property when those people refuse to remove them after being asked.

So if the problem is discrimination and harassment, as you said, the this unequal treatment by the law also needs to be explained, or you must concede that the law is not equal or applied equally.

If that's really what happened then the cops should be held accountable because what they did was against the law. But I have no idea if that's what happened, and I have zero info on this story other than what you told me. Either way, the law wouldn't be the problem in a case of harassment like this even if we assume the cops are guilty of harassment/discrimination, because it's illegal for cops to do that. Cops sometimes abuse their power against all sorts of people of all sorts of races and religions for all sorts of reasons, and when there's clear evidence against them of doing so (e.g. getting it on video) the state is frequently sued successfully and the cops fired. There's lots of examples on Youtube of this.
#15315765
QatzelOk wrote:Actually, the university is on land that was stolen during other genocides.

This is relevant to the current protests.

Come on, @QatzelOk, that land was stolen fair and square. As Proudhon once said, property is theft, therefore theft is property, therefore that land is now ours. :excited:
#15315778
wat0n wrote:...Did the protesters ask for permission?...


At Columbia, I'm not sure.

At McGill University, they got "permission" from the Mohawk Mothers, and from the Turtle and Wolf clans to be there.

le Devoir wrote:... Stuart Myiow, « représentant du clan du Loup », a déclaré, en donnant l’impression de s’exprimer au nom du « peuple mohawk, , « accorder le plein droit à ceux qui occupent McGill et d’autres campus de l’île de la Tortue à être sur ledit territoire ». »...

...la « Mère mohawk » Kahentinetha a réitéré lundi après-midi son soutien aux manifestants. La militante du clan de la Tortue (et ancienne porte-parole mohawk pendant la crise d’Oka) Ellen Gabriel s’est elle aussi déjà déplacée sur le campement....


...Stuart Myiow - Wolf Clan representative - declared, giving the impression of speaking on behalf of the Mohawk people, "to grant full rights to those who occupy McGill and other campuses of Turtle Island to be in the said territory.” ...

...Mohawk Mother Kahentinetha reiterated her support for the demonstrators on Monday afternoon. Turtle Clan activist (and former Mohawk spokesperson during the Oka Crisis) Ellen Gabriel has also visited the encampment....(my translation)


***

If the Turtles and Wolves have already given their blessing, this only leaves the Bear clan. And I believe the Mohawk Mother is a Bear, which means that all three clans have given their approval. And yet the Devoir articles says that this approval "isn't official" in its lede.

This might be due to a lack of comprehension of First Nation political culture. Or a political desire by the commercial news services to support MONEY in its editorializing ledes.
#15315791
QatzelOk wrote:At Columbia, I'm not sure.

At McGill University, they got "permission" from the Mohawk Mothers, and from the Turtle and Wolf clans to be there.



...Stuart Myiow - Wolf Clan representative - declared, giving the impression of speaking on behalf of the Mohawk people, "to grant full rights to those who occupy McGill and other campuses of Turtle Island to be in the said territory.” ...

...Mohawk Mother Kahentinetha reiterated her support for the demonstrators on Monday afternoon. Turtle Clan activist (and former Mohawk spokesperson during the Oka Crisis) Ellen Gabriel has also visited the encampment....(my translation)


***

If the Turtles and Wolves have already given their blessing, this only leaves the Bear clan. And I believe the Mohawk Mother is a Bear, which means that all three clans have given their approval. And yet the Devoir articles says that this approval "isn't official" in its lede.

This might be due to a lack of comprehension of First Nation political culture. Or a political desire by the commercial news services to support MONEY in its editorializing ledes.


That letter was fake.
#15315798
wat0n wrote:Constant public health hazard and noise that disrupts the learning process. Yup.


Provide evidence that 5ere was any disruption of classes or any health hazards.

There's no alternative legitimate purpose for collecting wood pallets, even more so when 3/4 of the campers aren't even students.


There were no pallets. They were removed after Kahane met with campus security several days before the cops showed up.

No evidence, then. The cops were sent to clear trespassers out, not to beat Jews.


No quote. I will assume this is a strawman.

And your support for violence against Jews is noted.

I believe the University more than I believe you.


No one cares about your opinion.

Provide evidence there a es there.

No, you did not. That is a reason for having a hammer, not an axe.


Obviously. you have no idea what a camp axe looks like. Probably because you have never gone camping.

Prove axes were present.

—————-

Unthinking Majority wrote:Why are you asking me these questions?


Because if you cannot answer these questions with a rational answer, then there is a real possibility that the law is not inherently just.


Unthinking Majority wrote:Ok and i've said they're free to protest. But nobody is free to break laws while they protest.


Your weird worship of law is not an argument. Protests often break minor laws (like jaywalking) without incident.

Unthinking Majority wrote: And setting up encampments and barricades etc doesn't make the students Rosa Parks, it makes them entitled brats if they think they're allowed to do anything they want on campus property without campus permission. They're free to protest on campus all they want, they aren't free to occupy and live on the quad. Pretty simple concept.


Since this is just opinion, it can be ignored.

Unthinking Majority wrote:If the IDF are targeting civilian homes just to kill innocent civilians then that's terrorism and an illegal war crime.

If the IDF launch a rocket at a home where a Hamas jihadist lives in order to kill the Hamas member, then no that's not terrorism, that's a military operation in self-defense with possible collateral damage, which occurs in ever war and is legal, but the IDF should be doing all it can to minimize collateral damage in order to achieve their objectives.


Well. the IDF has openly bombed family homes and the stated that one person in the family might be linked to Hamss because that one person was a member of UNRWA.

Is that legitimate?

Whattaboutism. Complaints about IDF abuses isn't an excuse to break US or Canadian laws.


I dis not claim one justified the other. I claimed it was irrational to treat tents as equivalent to the ongoing genocide.

Unthinking Majority wrote:It's a just law for property owners to have the right as ask the police to remove barricaded encampments from their property when those people refuse to remove them after being asked.


Then the university acted in an unjust manner since it does not meet the criteria you just listed.

Unthinking Majority wrote:If that's really what happened then the cops should be held accountable because what they did was against the law. But I have no idea if that's what happened, and I have zero info on this story other than what you told me. Either way, the law wouldn't be the problem in a case of harassment like this even if we assume the cops are guilty of harassment/discrimination, because it's illegal for cops to do that. Cops sometimes abuse their power against all sorts of people of all sorts of races and religions for all sorts of reasons, and when there's clear evidence against them of doing so (e.g. getting it on video) the state is frequently sued successfully and the cops fired. There's lots of examples on Youtube of this.


Okay.

Is there any investigation at all into the cops’ behaviour at this point?

If not, then the law is not acting as it should.
#15315807
wat0n wrote:@Pants-of-dog provide evidence that the University of Alberta is lying.


No.

First you have to provide evidence for the claims you made and for which you have been asked:

1. Provide evidence that there was any disruption of classes or any health hazards.

2. Provide evidence there were axes at the protest.
#15315809
In further news settlers in Israel attack humanitarian aid lorries , in the Gaza Strip . And a Jewish staffer has resigned from the Biden administration , over how it has mishandled the situation in Gaza .

Palestinian lorry drivers delivering aid to Gaza have described “barbaric” scenes after their vehicles were blocked and vandalised by Israeli settlers, preventing humanitarian supplies reaching the territory where much of the population face imminent starvation.

Drivers and contractors who were targeted on Monday at the Tarqumiya checkpoint in the occupied West Bank also said Israeli soldiers escorting the convoy did nothing to stop the attack.

The incident sparked international condemnation after videos emerged on social media that appeared to show Israeli settlers throwing boxes of much-needed supplies on the ground and at least one vehicle being set ablaze. Yazid al-Zoubi, 26, said between 50 and 60 lorries had set out in the convoy.

“We were carrying oil, sugar and other things and driving from the Tarqumiya crossing,” he said. “We left in a convoy with an army vehicle in front of us and an army vehicle behind us, and we took a special army road that civilians could not cross. Suddenly, after 20 minutes on the road, near the crossing, we were surprised by at least 400 settlers. They attacked us. The rest of the drivers and I escaped from the vehicles after the settlers starting throwing stones at us.’’

Zoubi said the situation escalated when the settlers started breaking the windscreens of the lorries and piercing the tyres, then climbed on to the vehicles and threw packages of food into the road.

Aid agencies have described famine conditions in parts of Gazathat they have said have been caused by Israeli restrictions on aid entering the Palestinian territory. Humanitarian officials say the population of Gaza needs at least 500 daily lorryloads of food, fuel and other essentials but have received a fraction of that amount.

Zoubi said that during Monday’s attack the Israeli soldiers escorting the convoy stood back and watched as the settlers rampaged.

“We are shocked and surprised that the army did not provide us with any kind of protection,” he said. “Even though they were present and watching what was happening. The army was at the service of the settlers.’’

Zoubi said the drivers fled the scene but that when they returned later to retrieve their belongings, they were attacked by the settlers, some of whom were armed.

‘’At that point the army gathered us and ordered us to raise our hands on the walls,” he said. “The settlers were free to terrorise us. I have never been attacked so brutally before.

“The state of terror I experienced is indescribable. Even now I have nightmares at night. My psychological state is broken, I cannot think properly, I can’t sleep. I cannot work. We are not smugglers. We agreed to transport goods legally from the crossing under the watch and supervision of the Israeli authorities.”

Footage of the incident appears to show the Israeli soldiers taking no action against the settlers. Haitham abu Khairo was also part of the aid convoy and the owner of one the lorries vandalised. He said he had lost approximately 250,000 Israeli shekels (£53,700) in the attack, which came after several trouble-free trips transporting aid for Gaza across the West Bank and Israel from the Jordanian border.

“I managed to escape but what happened is serious. The Israeli government must punish those who commit such an act with the most severe punishment. Because it will affect the country’s economy in the future, as many truck drivers will leave their jobs to ensure their safety,” he said.

The violence has prompted dozens of Palestinian drivers to refuse to transport supplies to Gaza. Adel Amer, a member of a hauliers’ union based in the West Bank, told Reuters about 15 lorries had been damaged in the attack and that the total damage amounted to about £1.6m.

Monday’s attack sparked strong condemnation from Israel’s allies. The US national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, described the incident as a “total outrage” while the UK foreign secretary, David Cameron, said it was “appalling”.

This month, the UK and EU imposed sanctions against Israeli settlers including some accused of violence towards Palestinians on the West Bank. The US has imposed sanctions on a handful of individuals and organisations linked to attacks on Palestinian civilians, with measures first announced in February then expanded twice in March and April.

The Israeli police said the incident, in which several people were arrested, was being investigated.

The Israeli military said it had worked throughout the seven-month war “to allow and facilitate the entry and delivery of extensive humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip, out of its commitment to international humanitarian law”.

It added: “Each incident involving humanitarian aid convoys, facilities or personnel is being thoroughly examined, including those mentioned in the report, and according to the examination’s findings, lessons are learned and implemented in order to prevent reoccurrence of such incidents and if so required, command, disciplinary and other measures are taken against individuals responsible.”

Monday’s attack was claimed by a group calling itself Order 9, which said it had acted to stop supplies reaching Hamas and accused the Israeli government of giving “gifts” to the Islamist group.

It was not the first time that Israeli settlers have tried to stop the flow of aid to Gaza. Last week, demonstrators blocked a road near the desert town of Mitzpe Ramon to protest against the delivery of aid lorries into Gaza.

This year, there were frequent demonstrations at crossings from Israel into Gaza, which hindered aid shipments into the territory. In March, the international court of justice ordered Israel to allow unimpeded access of food aid into Gaza.

The second video embedded in this article was amended on 16 May 2024. An earlier version said that a convoy of around 50 trucks carrying oil, sugar and other supplies was attacked by Israeli soldiers; this should have said Israeli settlers. The Guardian


Before sending the letter she knew would ricochet around the world, Lily Greenberg Call gave her parents a heads-up and said goodbye to her colleagues.

Then she went home and prepared for the storm that she correctly predicted would be unleashed Wednesday night when she was revealed to be the first Jewish staffer to resign from the Biden administration to protest President Joe Biden’s support for Israel’s war in Gaza.

Speaking to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency after watching her story unfold in public, Greenberg Call apologized for the ambient noises — distant voices, the occasional stiff breeze, cars whooshing and a siren — audible from her side of the conversation.

“I’m just walking outside because I feel like I needed a break,” she said.

It was a rare moment of calm after the frenzy not just of her news-making resignation but after months of unsuccessful advocacy to call for change from within the administration. Greenberg Call had served as a special assistant to the chief of staff in the Department of the Interior for just over a year.

“There were internal meetings and listening sessions for appointees, and I was very vocal at all of them and I was vocal internally with colleagues about how I felt — and I think it’s been very clear because there are so many of us who feel this way,” she said. “But it’s really just a small group of people making the decisions.”

Greenberg Call said she had also been bothered that the department had held separate listening sessions for Muslim and Jewish staffers. “That was strange,” she said.

For Greenberg Call, the separate meetings were especially dissonant since she had been part of conversations that brought together Jews and Palestinians for a decade, since she was in high school at San Diego Jewish Academy in California.

Greenberg Call said her first reaction upon seeing her phone light up on Oct. 7 was to text loved ones in Israel to see if they were safe as Hamas terrorists massacred hundreds of people inside the country. Then she checked in with Palestinian friends to see how they were doing as Israel planned its retaliation.

Then, she said, she realized she was suffering from PTSD from her own memories of rushing to shelters when she was just 16 years old on a Young Judaea trip to Israel.

The trauma was rooted not just in the fear she felt as a Jew during the 2014 Israel-Hamas war, but in the sadness she felt as she saw the other Jewish teens on the trip express anger at the Israeli Arabs they had just bonded with as part of the program.

“We did this wonderful coexistence seminar with teenagers in a Palestinian village in Israel,” she recalled. “I was very buoyed by it, and by what I felt was like some really genuine connections that were made between Jewish teens and Palestinian teens.

“And then it was very striking as the war started to break out, the way everyone kind of switched into survival mode and, and all of our trauma was activated and people no longer wanted to keep in touch with the other kidswe had befriended, and it was just really sad to me to see that kind of crumble,” she said.

In high school and then at the University of California, Berkeley, Greenberg Call was active with pro-Israel groups such as AIPAC and Hillel. Over time, her activism shifted to non-Zionist, anti-occupation groups like IfNotNow. Throughout, she said, her goal was was to bring people together and to achieve the fleeting bonds she experienced in 2014 and then again in 2017 when she visited Israel with Hillel Perspectives (which is underwritten by the Adelson family-funded Maccabee Task Force).

“We went to the West Bank, we went to Ramallah, we went to Bethlehem, we met with Palestinian Authority officials and tons of people within Israel,” she said of the group she traveled with, which was mostly not Jewish. “There were a lot of important conversations that were had.”

In the days after Oct. 7, Palestinians Greenberg Call had met through pro-Palestinian activism prior to joining the administration in 2022 texted and called to see how she was holding up.

“That was incredibly moving, and also really, I mean, painful in so many ways, to feel like we could understand each other and we could be there for each other,” she said. “And there were so many people outside of our worlds who I don’t know, who just don’t understand the reality that no one is going anywhere and that like our safety and our futures are connected.”

The decision to resign over the war was not an easy one, Greenberg Call said. She campaigned for then-Sen. Kamala Harris in her 2020 presidential bid, and then when Biden named Harris his running mate, Greenberg Call joined the campaign. She loved her job in part because of her admiration for Secretary of Interior Deb Haaland, the first indigenous person to hold the job.

“I think she’s incredibly principled, and her appointment is historic,” she said. “The focus on Indigenous communities and representation and commitment to them is just unparalleled.”

But ultimately, she said, she was disheartened that the message she and her colleagues had been delivering about the war in Gaza did not seem to be making an impact.

She believes her privilege as a white Jew helped spur her to speak out. “I have the privilege of being Jewish of being white, and therefore people will listen to me more, you know, not accuse me of being a terrorist in the same way that they will accuse my Palestinian friends,” she said. “I have complicated feelings about the fact that people defer to Jewish people for guidance on this, and I don’t think that that is right. And I think we should be passing the mic to Palestinians more and more.”

That’s the message that Greenberg Call wants the Jewish community that raised her to hear: that a woman brought up in a Jewish day school and in pro-Israel advocacy is anguished about the prospects of people she loves on both sides of the conflict — and that ending it will protect everyone’s safety.

“I’m sure that there’s people who are not pleased,” she said. “But you know, ultimately, I hope that they can one day understand that this is for them and for us, too. And it’s not in spite of them. It is you know, because of the values I was raised with and then the convictions that those values have led me to.” Jewish Telegraphic Agency



#15315810
^ the settlers even attacked IDF soldiers and police sent to ensure the aid is delivered.

@Pants-of-dog yes, you do have to provide the evidence that the University of Alberta is lying here. It is up to you to show they are potentially liable since lying is illegal. Furthermore, as far as the educational process is concerned, the disruptive nature of encampments and the constant making of noise that comes with them is self-evident.

Not that providing you with evidence helps at all, since concrete evidence of harassment of students by the protesters has been provided and you refuse to acknowledge it.
#15315811
wat0n wrote:^ the settlers even attacked IDF soldiers and police sent to ensure the aid is delivered.

@Pants-of-dog yes, you do have to provide the evidence that the University of Alberta is lying here. It is up to you to show they are potentially liable since lying is illegal. Furthermore, as far as the educational process is concerned, the disruptive nature of encampments and the constant making of noise that comes with them is self-evident.

Not that providing you with evidence helps at all, since concrete evidence of harassment of students by the protesters has been provided and you refuse to acknowledge it.


Since you refuse to support your arguments, they can be dismissed. At this point, it can safely be assumed that there were no axes or pallets at the protest, and no disruption to classes or any health or safety concerns.

We know the President is lying about the pallets, since the protesters and campus security dealt with the pallets days before. The President also never visited the protest, so there is no way he could have witnessed any a es, pallets, or any other health or safety concern.

There is also the fact that he may have broken the law.

    In 2020, the Court of Appeal of Alberta determined in a case between UAlberta Pro-Life, the Governors of the University of Alberta and the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association that the University of Alberta — and therefore all universities in Alberta — were subject to the Charter in relation to regulation of freedom of expression by students on university grounds.

    The decision was in response to a case that asked the court to determine whether the Charter applied to U of A’s handling of a student group’s request to organize an anti-abortion event.

    That decision provided clear guidelines regarding what’s permitted on university grounds in Alberta, Ryder said. That answer is less clear in other provinces, where activities allowed on university campuses are more often subject to policies of each university.

    “It does mean that there is at least initially a right to protest, and that right includes encampments on university grounds,” said Richard Moon, a law professor at the University of Windsor.

    There are several active questions regarding why the two universities took similar recourse to disperse the encampment, particularly around the police’s heavy-handed approach, said Irina Ceric, an assistant law professor at the University of Windsor.


https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-ne ... xperts-say
#15315819
@Pants-of-dog so you don't have any evidence of the University of Alberta lying.

I will also note that the very fact that encampments are disruptive to the educational process is grounds alone for the university to tell students to dismantle it. Constant noise is disruptive, the effective appropriation of the common space is disruptive and specially since it does not effectively allow for opposing ideas to be shared. Or what, opposing speech should not be protected?

At last, the case referred to in that news article is of an anti-abortion group that was granted permission to protest, and show graphic images of what an abortion does to a fetus, conditional on taking the full costs of providing security for the event (assessed at CAD17,500). This has little to do with a right to indefinitely encamp on university property.
#15315821
The U of A is legally required to allow encampment protests, according to a recent court case.

To argue that encampment protests, by definition, are not allowed for some reason is to show an ignorance of the law and the evidence presented in this thread.

No evidence of noise disruption has been presented,
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