Columbia faculty members walk out after pro-Palestinian protesters arrested - Page 40 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15316311
Getting back to the topic:

The new law going through Congress creates antisemitism monitors that can cut off federal funding to any school that does not combat antisemitism to the level desired by the monitor.

The monitor is not there to look at any other type of bigotry.
#15316314
wat0n wrote:@Pants-of-dog yeah, it's clear you don't know what the law you're railing against is about. Even though you got a link to it ITT.

The law doesn't need to address other forms of bigotry besides antisemitism because they're already addressed in currently existing Title VI. This law only codifies existing interpretation of "antisemitism" used in Title VI enforcement.

Maybe if you actually bothered to read the law you would be aware of what it is about and could have an informed opinion.


The law reflects the interests of the unelected and unrepresentative Zionist lobby groups. Such a law has been a goal of the Zionist lobby for decades and the current situation is being exploited by them to the utmost.

Most of congress are subservient to the lobby, do their bidding, enjoy their monetary contributions. This law reflects the wishes of Zionists not Jews, it originates in Israel not the USA.
#15316318
QatzelOk wrote:No one knows what you are going on about either.

Your anonymous two-line retorts amount to the same thing on every thread on every subject:

Prove that the report is lying.
Quote where I said that.
Since you have no counter-argument, we can continue..


That you respond to wat0n's "contentless" posts with bland counter-sentences that contain no content either... makes entire threads really boring to follow. You are killing discussions, both of you, perhaps intentionally.


It's not our fault you can't keep up with the discussion.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Getting back to the topic:

The new law going through Congress creates antisemitism monitors that can cut off federal funding to any school that does not combat antisemitism to the level desired by the monitor.

The monitor is not there to look at any other type of bigotry.


That's a different law, likely unconstitutional (so its prospects are poor) and easily amendable.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:The law reflects the interests of the unelected and unrepresentative Zionist lobby groups. Such a law has been a goal of the Zionist lobby for decades and the current situation is being exploited by them to the utmost.

Most of congress are subservient to the lobby, do their bidding, enjoy their monetary contributions. This law reflects the wishes of Zionists not Jews, it originates in Israel not the USA.


Or maybe it's a criterion most Americans can and do agree with. It also doesn't change things in practice, since this is already regulated by an Executive Order.
#15316320
wat0n wrote:Or maybe it's a criterion most Americans can and do agree with. It also doesn't change things in practice, since this is already regulated by an Executive Order.


What "criterion" are you referring to? The act hinges on a definition created by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance and is a furtherance of that institutions goals. The goals of the IHRA include:

to strengthen, advance and promote Holocaust education, remembrance, and research


To forbid criticism of political ideology (the very thing that gave rise to the Holocaust) antagonizes "Holocaust education" it does not strengthen it. Arising from that basic principle are the following specific definitions of antisemitism:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.


Well the current state of Israel is a racist endeavor according to the United Nations and according to the basic definition of "racism" too.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.


Many Jews have drawn that comparison. Conflating the mistreatment of people who are Jewish with the criticism of Israeli political ideology is nothing more than an abuse of the Holocaust itself. If the IHRA truly cared about the Holocaust then they would care about the political ideology that spawned it, instead the IHRA strives to thwart dissent of political ideology not antisemitism.

If it didn't change anything then it wouldn't have been written and adopted.

The IHRA definition belongs in a Kafka novel, The Trial.
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 24 May 2024 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
#15316323
Why has this writer not been arrested and tried?

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert.

The author of the report is Michael Lynk, clearly he has violated one of the rules laid down by the IHRA - why is he walking free? what are you going to do about it?

Canada is a member of the IHRA and so why is it doing nothing to Lynk?
#15316327
I think @wat0n is confused.

He keeps mentioning the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023.

The actual bill being debated in this thread is the COLUMBIA act proposed by Congressman Mike Lawler (R-NY-17) joined Congressman Ritchie Torres (D-NY-15).

The AAA simply makes it illegal for campuses to criticize Israel in almost any way. So, while it would be legal to point out that Canada is a settler colonialist state that has a racist policy against Indigenous people, it would be illegal to make the exact same statement about Israel, no matter how true the statements are.

The COLUMBIA act, on the other hand, has an additional provision that would cut off federal funding if a monitor finds out 5hat someone criticizes Israel on campus.
#15316334
Pants-of-dog wrote:I think @wat0n is confused.

He keeps mentioning the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023.

The actual bill being debated in this thread is the COLUMBIA act proposed by Congressman Mike Lawler (R-NY-17) joined Congressman Ritchie Torres (D-NY-15).

The AAA simply makes it illegal for campuses to criticize Israel in almost any way. So, while it would be legal to point out that Canada is a settler colonialist state that has a racist policy against Indigenous people, it would be illegal to make the exact same statement about Israel, no matter how true the statements are.

The COLUMBIA act, on the other hand, has an additional provision that would cut off federal funding if a monitor finds out 5hat someone criticizes Israel on campus.


Insanity.

A form of "antisemitism monitor" used to exist under the Third Reich but was then called The Gestapo and they too monitored "ideological dissenters", we are now adopting Israeli intolerance just as the Israelis have adopted Nazi intolerance.
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 24 May 2024 18:50, edited 1 time in total.
#15316338
Pants-of-dog wrote:Getting back to the topic:

The new law going through Congress creates antisemitism monitors that can cut off federal funding to any school that does not combat antisemitism to the level desired by the monitor.

The monitor is not there to look at any other type of bigotry.



The history of surveilling and suppressing Palestinians in the U.S. goes way back decades . This is only the most recent example of such conduct .

https://www.theguardian.com/news/article/2024/may/23/islamophobia-us-palestine-history

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/24/us-congress-university-hearing-palestinian-rights
#15316367
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Who has been arrested and convicted for describing Israel as a "racist" endeavor? where is this "enforcement" you speak of?


Nobody. This isn't a criminal law.

And enforcement is not necessarily about jailing people.

Pants-of-dog wrote:I think @wat0n is confused.

He keeps mentioning the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023.

The actual bill being debated in this thread is the COLUMBIA act proposed by Congressman Mike Lawler (R-NY-17) joined Congressman Ritchie Torres (D-NY-15).

The AAA simply makes it illegal for campuses to criticize Israel in almost any way. So, while it would be legal to point out that Canada is a settler colonialist state that has a racist policy against Indigenous people, it would be illegal to make the exact same statement about Israel, no matter how true the statements are.

The COLUMBIA act, on the other hand, has an additional provision that would cut off federal funding if a monitor finds out 5hat someone criticizes Israel on campus.


I am not confused. Those are two different laws, as I mentioned earlier - if anything you're the one who was conflating both.

I agree with you on the COLUMBIA Act, but it has little prospect of passing. Furthermore, I would think you'd believe having an anti-discrimination monitor is a good thing.

The AAA doesn't make it impossible to criticize Israel, if anything, it just codifies present practice that does in fact allow for student groups to do just that. They've done so since 2018 without much pushback from the DOE.

You know what's actually not allowed? Harassing students and vandalism.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Speaking of protester violence:

Image

This is precisely the entitled bigoted mindset of "settlers" in the West Bank.

This is a report all about these dingbats, lots of footage too for you @wat0n


I'm fine with arresting anyone breaking the law.

But why do you only want to arrest pro-Israel lawbreakers and not pro-Palestine ones? That entitled bigoted mindset is in fact common in the campus left. I am pretty sure a MAGA encampment in any school would have been dealt with by force in day one, be it by the police or by the campus left (and the latter would have faced no punishment at all).

This arrest also debunks the narrative by @Deutschmania, @Pants-of-dog, @KurtFF8 and your own, since pro-Israel lawbreakers are in fact being arrested too.

Deutschmania wrote:The history of surveilling and suppressing Palestinians in the U.S. goes way back decades . This is only the most recent example of such conduct .

https://www.theguardian.com/news/article/2024/may/23/islamophobia-us-palestine-history

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/24/us-congress-university-hearing-palestinian-rights


Nonsense.

Pro-Palestine protests have been a feature of American campuses ever since the Second Intifada. The Israel Apartheid Week didn't get any serious pushback. If there's pushback now it's because it turns out leftists can't break the law with impunity.

If course, after decades of such impunity they're obviously not just going to give it up. Hence why you see the histrionics of protesting at commencements (and how they've been booed, like at Duke).

If there's something leftists are really good at is playing the victim. Too bad this is starting to end, even if they're from rich families and try to use their actual power to avoid being held accountable.
#15316385
wat0n wrote:This arrest also debunks the narrative by @Deutschmania, @Pants-of-dog, @KurtFF8 and your own, since pro-Israel lawbreakers are in fact being arrested too.


Wait, you think this single arrest debunks the fact that hundreds of peaceful students have been arrested while tons of the violent pro-genocide counter protesters remain free of consequence? One single arrest debunks this? I have a hard time believing that you even believe the stuff you say here.
#15316388
Unless the laws passed concerning antisemitism and monitors equally apply to other forms of discrimination, the laws against antisemitism create an unequal dynamic where Israel gets deferential treatment. Note that it is not Jews who get special treatment, but Israel.
#15316391
^ it would actually be Jews, since the monitoring would be for antisemitism. But that law has little chance of being passed.

KurtFF8 wrote:Wait, you think this single arrest debunks the fact that hundreds of peaceful students have been arrested while tons of the violent pro-genocide counter protesters remain free of consequence? One single arrest debunks this? I have a hard time believing that you even believe the stuff you say here.


There have not been hundreds of "peaceful" pro-Israel counter protesters of racist and violent leftists who have spent their time vandalizing property and harassing Jewish students.
#15316397
The AAA act is already in place, and we can see that it did nothing to protect any Jewish students.

The COLUMBIA act is not in place, and since it does not punish anyone who commits antisemitism (but instead punishes the institution), this will not act as a deterrent for antisemitic acts by individuals.

Moreover, the only antisemitism that would be caught by monitors or other university officials would be written works, such as academic writing. This would then have no impact on interpersonal relationships but would have great impact on academic discourse.

Prove me wrong.
#15316410
After multiple pages of:

Prove that the report is lying.
Quote where I said that.
Since you have no counter-argument, we can continue...

...wat0n wrote:It's not our fault you can't keep up with the discussion..


I am finding the content easy to follow. But when there are three of four pages of spam every day that contain as little as the bolded statements above, I can't really find the thread interesting as it has been diluted with contentless structural barbs.

Contentless structural barbs... are what you and Pants do to threads, much to the chagrin of informed debate.
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