South Africa launches case at UN court accusing Israel of genocide - Page 51 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15316634
Perhaps Egypt is starving Gazans. Has the ICJ mentioned Egypt in its case?

There is a very real argument that Egypt is also to blame for this and shares some moral culpability.

This does not refute any of the facts mentioned, nor does it change the fact that the IDF incursion into Rafah was cause of the closing.
#15316652
So we have seen that settler colonialism provides a financial incentive for ethnic cleansing and genocide.

We have also seen that SA has claimed that ethnic cleansing and genocide is taking place in Gaza.

Aside from obvious points of evidence like the tens of thousands of civilians killed by the IDF, the court has also found that the IDF and Israeli government are probably using starvation as a weapon.

Consequently, the logical conclusion is that the ongoing famine (and the factors leading to the famine, like the closing of Rafah crossing) all help Israel achieve those financial incentives mentioned at the beginning of this post.
#15316670
Pants-of-dog wrote:Perhaps Egypt is starving Gazans. Has the ICJ mentioned Egypt in its case?

There is a very real argument that Egypt is also to blame for this and shares some moral culpability...

Yeah, like Canada was to blame for George Washington "killing all the Mohawks."

"Why don't you take them into your country?" asked wat0n in 1777. Otherwise, Canada is just as guilty as "the state committing genocide in plain view of everyone."

Putting all his spam aside for a moment, Pants is helping wat0n to deflect blame for genocide. I think his spamming of threads is a big help as well. Like jamming other posters with "cite where I lied about the study."
#15316673
It makes sense to assume that Israel has different motives in this scenario and should therefore be held to a different standard.

Egypt has the intention of trying to avoid a mass exodus of refugees into Egypt. Egypt also wants to have Gazans running the Philadelphi corridor.

The IDF and Israeli government want to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians and settle the land.

Som when it comes to the border closing, they have different intentions. The IDF and Israeli government want to choke off aid and starve Gazans, while Egypt is using it as leverage to try and get the IDF to go away.

Only someone who did nit see the situation in an objective manner could pretend they should be held to the same standard.
#15316678
Pants-of-dog wrote:It makes sense to assume that Israel has different motives in this scenario and should therefore be held to a different standard.


No, that doesn't make sense and in any event this does not answer why don't you find Hamas to blame for temporary closures of border crossings like Kerem Shalom after Hamas attacks them even after such attacks kill Israeli soldiers.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Egypt has the intention of trying to avoid a mass exodus of refugees into Egypt. Egypt also wants to have Gazans running the Philadelphi corridor.


And that justifies "starving" Gazans in your view?

Pants-of-dog wrote:The IDF and Israeli government want to ethnically cleanse Gaza of Palestinians and settle the land.


It doesn't, and you have zero proof of that.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Som when it comes to the border closing, they have different intentions. The IDF and Israeli government want to choke off aid and starve Gazans, while Egypt is using it as leverage to try and get the IDF to go away.

Only someone who did nit see the situation in an objective manner could pretend they should be held to the same standard.


Given your arbitrary double standards, it's quite evident you don't see this in an objective manner. Even if Israel has valid security concerns that justify closures - like, for example, that attacks against border crossings have killed Israeli soldiers - you insist these have been caused by some fantastical starvation plan.

These double standards also do justify the IHRA approach to antisemitism - there's no other viable explanation to them. And such antisemitism is deep and longstanding in the left.
#15316695
It seems weird to ask me to get upset if Hamas kills IDF soldiers. IDF soldiers are enacting a genocide and if Hamas is stopping IDF soldiers from doing that, any moral person should laud them.

After all, the IDF and Israeli government thinks it is justified to starve Palestinians.

We are watching the IDF and Israeli government doing it right now.

And anyone who denies the ongoing genocide is enabling it.
#15316697
Pants-of-dog wrote:It seems weird to ask me to get upset if Hamas kills IDF soldiers. IDF soldiers are enacting a genocide and if Hamas is stopping IDF soldiers from doing that, any moral person should laud them.

After all, the IDF and Israeli government thinks it is justified to starve Palestinians.

We are watching the IDF and Israeli government doing it right now.

And anyone who denies the ongoing genocide is enabling it.


Allow me to remind you this war started precisely because of Hamas' actual genocidal attack of October 7, which it publicized by filming it with bodycams.

If this is your standard, you should be lauding the IDF for stopping it and also ensuring Hamas will not commit such attacks in the future.
#15316709
The state of Israel as it stands today, is doing more to promote antisemitism than any other agency in the world. The lying, the racism, the apartheid, the punitive home demolitions, the secret trials for children, the shooting of kids and journalists and doctors, the bombing of women and children day in and day out for seven months, all of this has resulted in increasing alienation of Israel.

The world can see what Israel is doing and that is why the ICC seek arrest warrants, that is why Ireland, Spain and Norway have now recognized the state of Palestine, the truth is out there and as each day passes there is growing despair and disgust at Israel and its perversion of Zionism and ruthless apartheid state structure. This conduct, this barbarity can only encourage antisemitic reactions by some, not reduce them, everyone is starting to see the cries of "victim" in the Middle East are lies, crocodile tears, and they have been for almost 100 years.
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 28 May 2024 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
#15316710
wat0n wrote:Allow me to remind you this war started precisely because of Hamas' actual genocidal attack of October 7, which it publicized by filming it with bodycams.


Tell me, what course of action would you take to resist an illegal occupation and resist being forced to stay inside an open prison called "Gaza" where no one gets in or out without Israeli say so? Where the people are not allowed to build an airport? where the people are not allowed to access and exploit their oil reserves of the coast of Gaza? If you were living in those conditions what would you do?

Would you do as the Jews did in Warsaw in 1944 and unleash terror and violence directed at their captors?

wat0n wrote:If this is your standard, you should be lauding the IDF for stopping it and also ensuring Hamas will not commit such attacks in the future.


Killing, maiming, burning, dismembering 36,000 people, most of whom are women/children is not likely to foster good feelings among Palestinian men is it? so far from "ensuring" no such attacks in the future, Israel has now pretty much guaranteed them and on a scale likely far beyond October 7th.

Every keen observer of Israel understands that it has chosen expansion over security, it's that simple. It has valued territorial expansion at the expense of security, so don't start crying and whining, this is all foreseeable and has been for decades.

Israel has been warned many many times, it has been called out in UN resolution after resolution, but they wanted territory more than security - well Israel has gotten what it wanted so why the crocodile tears?

The Israelis cannot illegally seize land and at the same time not expect the victims to fight back, only a fool would expect that...
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 28 May 2024 21:21, edited 1 time in total.
#15316711
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Tell me, what course of action would you take to resist an illegal occupation and resist being forced to stay inside an open prison called "Gaza" where no one gets in or out without Israeli say so? If you were living in those conditions what would you do?

Would you do as the Jews did in Warsaw in 1944 and unleash terror and violence directed at their captors?


The Jews in Warsaw did not go on a rampage mass murdering German civilians.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Killing, maiming, burning, dismembering 36,000 people, most of whom are women/children is not likely to foster good feelings among Palestinian men is it? so far from "ensuring" no such attacks in the future, Israel has now pretty much guaranteed them and on a scale likely far beyond October 7th.

Every keen observer of Israel understands that it has chosen expansion over security, it's that simple. It has valued territorial expansion at the expense of security, so don't start crying and whining, this is all foreseeable and has been for decades.

Israel has been warned many many times, it has been called out in UN resolution after resolution, but they wanted territory more than security - well Israel has gotten what it wanted so why the crocodile tears?


Yes, we know you believe mass murder and rape are justifiable as long as the victims are Israeli Jews.

I mean, if we go by UN resolutions, allow me to remind you the Palestinians rejected the very first resolution on the matter - the bipartition - and you have justified that too. So it is a reasonable inference that this is about "who" and not "what".
#15316712
wat0n wrote:The Jews in Warsaw did not go on a rampage mass murdering German civilians.



Yes, we know you believe mass murder and rape are justifiable as long as the victims are Israeli Jews.

I mean, if we go by UN resolutions, allow me to remind you the Palestinians rejected the very first resolution on the matter - the bipartition - and you have justified that too. So it is a reasonable inference that this is about "who" and not "what".


I asked you what you would do, but you're trapped and so won't answer me honestly...
#15316716
@wat0n

Rape is a terrible reality during war, the Russians stand accused of many rapes during the invasion of Germany, this can't be condoned but we must accept that it is not unique to Palestinian soldiers.

Having said that the refusal by Israel to allow independent investigators into the area doesn't really make sense unless the degree of rape is exaggerated, why would they not allow experienced trained forensic teams to investigate?

Within hours of the October 7th attacks we heard stories of babies being beheaded, ever wonder why that claim has all but vanished? because it was a lie, no evidence, none.

There is evidence though that the IDF killed Jews during the various gun battles on Oct 7 and Oct 8, Jews have been interviewed and have said they were shot at, their houses where shot at by the IDF.

Look:

Image

Why would anyone be eager to believe the Israelis, the IDF claims of atrocities when they themselves are killing their own kind! Talk about barbarity, its no wonder they don't want independent investigators snooping around and asking questions.

This is no surprise when we understand that Israel has the so-called Hannibal Directive.
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 28 May 2024 21:56, edited 3 times in total.
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