South Africa launches case at UN court accusing Israel of genocide - Page 54 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15316867
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Only if we can find no additional factors that might have been involved, are you not aware of anything other than Al Aqsa rumors?


Yes, like for instance Jewish nationalists marching at Al Aqsa, because they felt they were being excluded (and literally being shat on).

Then you have tensions over Jewish immigration, although immigrants were not arriving to Hebron.

Would you say this type of riot was a proportionate response?
#15316869
wat0n wrote:Yes, like for instance Jewish nationalists marching at Al Aqsa, because they felt they were being excluded (and literally being shat on).

Then you have tensions over Jewish immigration, although immigrants were not arriving to Hebron.

Would you say this type of riot was a proportionate response?


The truth is complex and rooted in European colonialism. The Balfour declaration had a huge and terrifying impact on Arabs in Palestine, the explicit statement by outside powers that they would facilitate the creation of a Jewish state, was absolutely terrifying to Arabs and many Jews at the time.

I'd suggest a good source is Hillel Cohen, and Israeli historian. He wrote a book all about this that is widely regarded as impartial.

Year Zero of the Arab-Israeli Conflict 1929

Jews and Arabs had live peacefully together for many many centuries, Araba and Jews in Hebron were neighbors and had been for centuries, there was no sense of "Arabs hate Jews" at all. Here's an excerpt from Cohen's book: (emphasis mine)
For the Arabs of Palestine, the country is their homeland from before the Hebrews or Jews first reached it, and they continue to be its natural inhabitants and heirs. This is a fundamental Palestinian concept. The fact that Palestinian society is composed of families and tribes — some of which have roots in Palestine and others of which arrived in waves of immigration over the years, prior to Islam and afterward — does not, in this view, diminish this claim, because by its nature Palestine is a land that serves as a melting pot for its inhabitants and melds them into a single Palestinian people. This Palestinian perception, which frequently sees the Jews who lived in Palestine prior to the inception of Zionism as part of the Arab Palestinian people, is profoundly opposed to the common Zionist Jewish view. First, Palestinian nationalism is based on the principle of jus soli — right of land. That is, it is the land that creates the nation, and the inhabitants of a country possess the right to it, no matter what their origin. The rival Jewish perception is based on the principle of jus sanguinis — right of blood. In this view, blood descent is the central component of nationhood, and the right to the Holy Land derives from its association with the Jewish people. The practical implications are, then, that the Palestinians see the land as their homeland and the Jews as foreigners (who can, under certain conditions, merge with the Palestinian people), while the Jews see it as the homeland of the Jewish people, no matter where they may be.

and
It can be put this way: European penetration of the Middle East heightened awareness of the difference between the Muslim majority community on the one hand and the minority Christian and Jewish communities on the other. Christians and Jews appealed to the European powers with the goal of improving their legal and economic status and gaining full equality, and in doing so were often seen as promoters of foreign interests and non-Muslim rule. So political enmity began. The Jewish and Christian alignment with Christian powers also had religious significance; the choice Jews (and Christians) made to prefer the protection of foreign powers was interpreted, understandably, as an act of renouncing their traditional status as wards of the Muslim sovereign. For Muslims, this was a watershed in their relations with these communities. Legally and theologically, from that point onward Muslims viewed themselves as absolved of the obligation to protect the Jews and Christians of the Holy Land and elsewhere in the Middle East. Furthermore, if the Jews wished to turn Palestine into their own land, as rumors began to say they did, the Muslims were bound to fight them. Political contention between the Jews and Muslims thus commenced prior to the dawn of organized Zionist settlement, even before the arrival of the proto-Zionist settlers of the Bilu and Hovevei Zion movements in the nineteenth century’s latter decades.

and
the fact that a Jewish community could reside in Jerusalem was a Muslim innovation. Both the Byzantines, who ruled the city prior to the Muslim conquest, and the crusaders, who took it from the Muslims and ruled it for a time, forbade Jews to live in the city. A lesser-known fact is that under the British Mandate, Christians still forbade Jews from entering the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and the street leading to it.

Source: The missing narrative and context of the Hebron massacre 1929
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 30 May 2024 16:15, edited 3 times in total.
#15316873
Now, if Hamas was shooting rockets at Israel before October 7, it is reasonable to assume these attacks were inspired by the same conditions that led to the October 7 attack.

And by this, we mean Palestinian frustration at the blockade, the extrajudicial killings, and the arbitrary detentions, as well as the other problems associated with the relationship between Gaza and the Israeli government
#15316874
More insanity, these people are barbarians, nothing more than modern day Nazis and they must be stopped, this mass destruction of communities must be brought to an end, by outside force if necessary:

Image

Serbia (a former WW2 ally and a people who suffered their own holocaust under the Ustashe (who were so brutal even the SS complained)) was bombed by NATO in 1999 purportedly for "persecuting ethnic Albanians" what the Serbs did back then was absolutely miniscule compared to Gaza, yet we see no NATO threats of bombing Israel in order to protect ethnic Palestinians, the hypocrisy is sickening.

Here's a few pictures of Tulkarm, this is what Beelzebub Snotrich is pledging to destroy:

Image
Image
#15316888
Sherlock Holmes wrote:The truth is complex and rooted in European colonialism. The Balfour declaration had a huge and terrifying impact on Arabs in Palestine, the explicit statement by outside powers that they would facilitate the creation of a Jewish state, was absolutely terrifying to Arabs and many Jews at the time.

I'd suggest a good source is Hillel Cohen, and Israeli historian. He wrote a book all about this that is widely regarded as impartial.

Year Zero of the Arab-Israeli Conflict 1929

Jews and Arabs had live peacefully together for many many centuries, Araba and Jews in Hebron were neighbors and had been for centuries, there was no sense of "Arabs hate Jews" at all. Here's an excerpt from Cohen's book: (emphasis mine)

and

and

Source: The missing narrative and context of the Hebron massacre 1929


It's interesting how things are always "complex" when the Jews get killed but not when Palestinians are. Or what, would you say the issue of Irgun's terrorism after Hebron was "complex" too?

And yes, Muslims weren't as bad in power for the Jews as Christians were - just like Jim Crow was not as bad as slavery was. But they weren't good or egalitarian either. The fact Jews and Christians preferred to align with outside powers should already tell you something.
#15317014
wat0n wrote:I've yet to see any report on Israeli settlers killing 1,200 Palestinians.


By this simplistic analysis, if settlers had only ever historically killed 40 Palestinians then the 1,200 killed by Hamas is fully justified. Israel has killed 36,000 people for the 1,200 killed on Oct 7th.

If you are arguing that if one side kills X civilians then the other side is entitled to kill 30 times as many then just say that. Because if so then Hamas are now entitled to kill 30 x 36,000 Israeli civilians which is over a million.
#15317015
Sherlock Holmes wrote:By this simplistic analysis, if settlers had only ever historically killed 40 Palestinians then the 1,200 killed by Hamas is fully justified. Israel has killed 36,000 people for the 1,200 killed on Oct 7th.

If you are arguing that if one side kills X civilians then the other side is entitled to kill 30 times as many then just say that. Because if so then Hamas are now entitled to kill 30 x 36,000 Israeli civilians which is over a million.


You should ask @KurtFF8 why he applies this type of simplistic analysis, not me. Either way, just correcting the record here.

Even more so since I said I condemn any violence by settlers.

Yet it seems leftists can't condemn October 7. Interesting, heh?
#15317050
wat0n wrote:You should ask @KurtFF8 why he applies this type of simplistic analysis, not me. Either way, just correcting the record here.


You haven't done that because you haven't backed up your claims.

Even more so since I said I condemn any violence by settlers.


As you constantly downplay it and justify it.

Yet it seems leftists can't condemn October 7. Interesting, heh?


Nice deflection attempt but most people can see through it.
#15317052
KurtFF8 wrote:You haven't done that because you haven't backed up your claims.


Actually you could prove yours: Prove that Israeli settlers have killed more people than Hamas had.
KurtFF8 wrote:As you constantly downplay it and justify it.


I don't.
KurtFF8 wrote:Nice deflection attempt but most people can see through it.


No deflection at all, just a fact.

Do you condemn the October 7 massacre? Yes or no?
  • 1
  • 52
  • 53
  • 54
  • 55
  • 56
  • 67

Society is not a simple, unitary thing with a hiv[…]

World War II Day by Day

June 14, Friday Nazi darkness falls on “City of […]

Quiz for 'educated' historians

Measuring gdp in use is not very useful, especial[…]

Israel is powerless to prevent more attacks like […]