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#15317951
wat0n wrote:Because Segal wrote his nonsensical piece many months ago (October 13, 2023) and the Palestinian import statistics say he's just wrong.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/crossings


Please explain why you think those statistics say Segal is wrong? As for the date of publication, can you point out any factual mistakes in the article? if not why are you fixated on the date?

wat0n wrote:Also, I am not the one justifying the largest massacre of Jews since Nazism, @Sherlock Holmes - I'd say you are much closer to Nazism than I am.


Many of those Jews killed on Oct 7th were killed by IDF cowards/morons/jackasses/thugs

According to Yasmin Porat, who had fled the electronic music festival – Which had come under attack, which was held right between Kibbutz Be’eri and Kibbutz Rahim, which also have military bases essentially embedded within them – It was held on the road between these two kibbutzim and came under attack. Many captives were taken. This woman, Yasmin Porat, fled to Kibbutz Be’eri, went into a home with her partner, and then they were taken captive momentarily by gunmen. She recounted to Israeli National Radio that when the Israeli special forces arrived, they started shooting everyone and that most of the captives, along with the Hamas gunmen, were caught in the crossfire, and that everyone was killed except for her and her captor, who used her as a human shield in order to guarantee his own safety when he surrendered.

She saw her own partner, whose hands had been bound by her captors, get shot by Israeli special forces, and then they lobbed two tank shells into the home that she had been in. So if you look at the pictures of Kibbutz Be’eri, they look like the homes in Gaza that I’ve seen, or you may have seen that came under shelling from Israeli tanks and Israeli artillery. There’s no way that Hamas gunmen could have done that much structural damage to this entire kibbutz with the small arms that they were equipped with; Kalashnikovs and some RPGs.


Source: DID ISRAEL’S MILITARY KILL ITS OWN CIVILIANS ON OCT. 7?

JERUSALEM, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Israel has begun investigating possible breaches of the law by its forces during the Hamas attack on Oct. 7, the military said on Tuesday, following reports some Israeli civilians may have been killed by friendly fire in the fighting.
The left-wing daily Haaretz said the investigation centred on an incident in Kibbutz Be'eri, one of the worst hit communities, in which a house was shelled by a tank, killing 12 Israeli hostages held by Palestinian Hamas gunmen.

Source: Israeli military opens probe into reports of Oct. 7 friendly fire deaths

Israel lies, it lies and lies and lies and deceives and cry's victims all the time but it is a wolf in sheep's clothing, any sensible Israeli should leave the dump as fast as they can because the writing's on the wall:

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Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on 11 Jun 2024 19:51, edited 1 time in total.
#15317953
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Please explain why you think those statistics say Segal is wrong? As for the date of publication, can you point out any factual mistakes in the article?


Sure, for starters the crossings were closed because of the previous attack in October 7.

But more importantly, future Israeli behavior also debunks this idea.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Many of those Jews killed on Oct 7th were killed by IDF cowards/morons/jackasses/thugs

Source: DID ISRAEL’S MILITARY KILL ITS OWN CIVILIANS ON OCT. 7?

Source: Israeli military opens probe into reports of Oct. 7 friendly fire deaths


Now more blaming the victim. No, the vast majority were killed by the Palestinian militias.

Such friendly fire incidents wouldn't have happened if Hamas had not started this war.
#15317954
wat0n wrote:Sure, for starters the crossings were closed because of the previous attack in October 7.

But more importantly, future Israeli behavior also debunks this idea.



Now more blaming the victim. No, the vast majority were killed by the Palestinian militias.

Such friendly fire incidents wouldn't have happened if Hamas had not started this war.


The IDF (Inhuman Deranged Fanatics) Firing tank shells into an Israeli's home is murder you dingbat.
#15317956
wat0n wrote:...And the officer will be charged if that's what happened, and was done without justification. Yet it killed 12, if we go by the allegations.

So how do you account for the rest?

PS: BTW, a RPGs aren't "small arms".


So what? Palestinians get shot in the streets and their homes every week, taken hostage and their homes get destroyed every week, the Israeli forces and settlers do this routinely despite ruling after ruling calling it for it cease.



They are so dumb though that they think they can get away with such abuse, Oct 7th proves how wrong they've been. I'll await the usual apologist claptrap though, I'm sure you won't be long in condemning these victims.
#15317957
Sherlock Holmes wrote:So what? Palestinians get shot in the streets and their homes every week, taken hostage and their homes get destroyed every week, the Israeli forces and settlers do this routinely despite ruling after ruling calling it for it cease.



They are so dumb though that they think they can get away with such abuse, Oct 7th proves how wrong they've been. I'll await the usual apologist claptrap though, I'm sure you won't be long in condemning these victims.


One can condemn settlers' and Hamas' attacks. Your nonsense won't work, but shows what your actual concern is.
#15317959
wat0n wrote:One can condemn settlers' and Hamas' attacks. Your nonsense won't work, but shows what your actual concern is.


The entire project is unsustainable, it is clearly doomed and going to implode. When that happens Oct 7th will look like a picnic. The Zionist regime has no idea how to survive, they cling to their protector (The United States and evangelicals) and sow the seeds of their own destruction.

Sooner or later Israel will have outlived its usefulness and will be discarded by the West like they do with nations who have served their purpose. Once the cost of supporting Zionism outweighs the benefits the entire edifice will crumble.
#15317961
Sherlock Holmes wrote:The entire project is unsustainable, it is clearly doomed and going to implode. When that happens Oct 7th will look like a picnic. The Zionist regime has no idea how to survive, they cling to their protector (The United States and evangelicals) and sow the seeds of their own destruction.

Sooner or later Israel will have outlived its usefulness and will be discarded by the West like they do with nations who have served their purpose. Once the cost of supporting Zionism outweighs the benefits the entire edifice will crumble.


Yes, I know you want to have something making October 7 look like a picnic. Like October 7 repeated 10,000 times as your genocidal antisemitic leftist pals want.
#15317963
wat0n wrote:Yes, I know you want to have something making October 7 look like a picnic. Like October 7 repeated 10,000 times as your genocidal antisemitic leftist pals want.


I do not see any possibility of this resolving peacefully, the arrogance of Israel along with its Western backers is the antithesis of the humility needed to resolve this wisely.

Israel is powerless to prevent more attacks like Oct 7th, utterly powerless, the world is turning against them. They could arrest settlers using administrative detention laws, but they wont. They could expel MKs who call Arabs animals but they won't. They could announce their departure from the West Bank but they won't. They could stop building new settlements on land that is not theirs, but they won't. The people in Israel could rise up and eject their government and start down a new path, but they won't.

These are the reasons why Israel is doomed, it cannot and will not do any of the things that could help it, such is the degree of arrogance and superiority.
#15317965
Sherlock Holmes wrote:I do not see any possibility of this resolving peacefully, the arrogance of Israel along with its Western backers is the antithesis of the humility needed to resolve this wisely.

Israel is powerless to prevent more attacks like Oct 7th, utterly powerless, the world is turning against them. They could arrest settlers using administrative detention laws, but they wont. They could expel MKs who call Arabs animals but they won't. They could announce their departure from the West Bank but they won't. They could stop building new settlements on land that is not theirs, but they won't. The people in Israel could rise up and eject their government and start down a new path, but they won't.

These are the reasons why Israel is doomed, it cannot and will not do any of the things that could help it, such is the degree of arrogance and superiority.


Israel is powerless to fight yet it's committing genocide... At least get your story straight. Or take your meds :roll:
#15317967
wat0n wrote:Israel is powerless to fight yet it's committing genocide... At least get your story straight. Or take your meds :roll:


Israel can't fight, it can kill, that's easy but it can't fight a real enemy. It has been hiding behind the West for decades, it could never finance these killing sprees without US bombs, US jets, US guns, it would not fare well. The fact that Oct 7th even occurred is proof of this.

A ragtag bunch of fighters with hang gliders came in and attacked army posts with little resistance, overran neighborhoods with little resistance, they killed over 370 Israeli soldiers, that's not just embarrassing it's proof of Israeli incompetence.

Now they decimate Gaza and carry out raids in the West Bank and ignore world opinion and the UN and international courts, in other words they are doing what they always do and so they are guaranteed to get what they always got - insecurity. Oct 7th is the predictable outcome of Israeli policies, nobody who understands Israeli history was even slightly surprised at Oct 7th, it was completely what an intelligent person would expect, the Israeli leaders however are as dumb as a box of rocks.
#15317969
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Israel can't fight, it can kill, that's easy but it can't fight a real enemy. It has been hiding behind the West for decades, it could never finance these killing sprees without US bombs, US jets, US guns, it would not fare well. The fact that Oct 7th even occurred is proof of this.

A ragtag bunch of fighters with hang gliders came in and attacked army posts with little resistance, overran neighborhoods with little resistance, they killed over 370 Israeli soldiers, that's not just embarrassing it's proof of Israeli incompetence.

Now they decimate Gaza and carry out raids in the West Bank and ignore world opinion and the UN and international courts, in other words they are doing what they always do and so they are guaranteed to get what they always got - insecurity. Oct 7th is the predictable outcome of Israeli policies, nobody who understands Israeli history was even slightly surprised at Oct 7th, it was completely what an intelligent person would expect, the Israeli leaders however are as dumb as a box of rocks.


Oh yeah, Israel can't fight a real enemy...

...Except for the fact it is, and it is unable to match it in the battlefield, so it uses civilians for shielding.

Again, have you taken your meds? Your ramblings are becoming more incoherent post by post.
#15317972
wat0n wrote:Oh yeah, Israel can't fight a real enemy...

...Except for the fact it is, and it is unable to match it in the battlefield, so it uses civilians for shielding.

Again, have you taken your meds? Your ramblings are becoming more incoherent post by post.


Hamas are unable to buy Jets, buy tanks, buy 2000lb bombs. Israel gets everything it wants from uncle Sam. How you can call a well equipped army engaging men who have none of the same kinds of weapons, a "fight" is quite a stretch of reality.

It lives off US charity, it can't stand on its own two feet, without the US it is nothing, just a third world backwater who's main growth industry is stealing land and olive groves and demolishing people's houses.
#15317973
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Hamas are unable to buy Jets, buy tanks, buy 2000lb bombs. Israel gets everything it wants from uncle Sam. How you can call a well equipped army engaging men who have none of the same kinds of weapons, a "fight" is quite a stretch of reality.

It lives off US charity, it can't stand on its own two feet, without the US it is nothing, just a third world backwater who's main growth industry is stealing land and olive groves and demolishing people's houses.


The Taliban and ISIS couldn't that either. Yet they proved formidable enemies, to the point the US and the former USSR couldn't defeat the former.

:roll:
#15317976
SpecialOlympian wrote:Israel is a genocidal terrorist state.


Sure to some degree it can be said that Israel is in to a very slow ethnic cleansing. (Not really genocide but close enough) A very slow ethnic cleansing is still ethnic cleansing and denying it is pointless. What is the settlement program then? What is the gaza operation attempt then considering how it was planned? If you condemn for example recent Azerbaljan ethnic cleansing of Armenians in Karabah then you should also condemn Israel for the same reason. Or any other ethnic cleansings before.

But it doesn't change the fact that Hamas are also religious terrorists who are in to wiping out the Jews. The difference is that they can't do since Israel has a bigger stick, a lot bigger stick than those who threaten it combined.

These two statements are facts and being blind to one or the other is inherently very dishonest. Even if Israel is doing far more damage to Hamas than Hamas to Israel. Now, what is the solution nobody fucking knows. The only way I see it is to remove Likud and Hamas from power and actually put somebody pro-peace on both sides in charge. Otherwise it will be the same cycle that we have seen for fuck knows how long.

The reason why Israel has such a huge advantage overall is because it is a democratic state. A lot might not like it who support Palestine/Gaza but if your choice is to support religious dictatorial nutjobs who are in to genocide and literally kill its opposition and spread propaganda VS a democratic state with rule of law and everything else but a state that conducts very very slow ethnic cleansing so that is not really choice SO. Any sane political leader will choose Israel from many perspectives be it economic, cultural, political, predictability, trust etc Even in the human rights department the choice is not very favourable for Hamas since their human rights record is far worse than Israeli very slow ethnic cleansing which speaks volumes.
#15317981
wat0n wrote:There are multiple instances of protesters telling American Jews to go back to Poland.


"Multiple instances"?

And wanting to repeat October 7 10,000 times is at least as bad as anything pro-Israel protesters have said.


How many instances of this have you cited?


It is not a lie that protesters have been harassing Jewish students, and have also provided multiple instances of that.


It is a lie.



The Left claims to be opposed to antisemitism, but it's not and does not police antisemitism in its own ranks.


The Left is opposed to antisemitism. There's no evidence that there are members of Leftist organizations engaging in this kind of hate speech that you're claiming.

Again your obvious double standard here is just a self own by you. You have found what you claim to be damming instance of antisemitism by "the Left" yet when there are more instances of anti-Arab and anti-Black racism by the supporters of the regime, somehow that doesn't count to condemn all supporters of the regime.

You can literally have people chanting the Houthis' antisemitic slogan or people praising Hitler in a pro-Palestine protest with nobody telling them to fuck off. And yes I posted examples of both too.


This is not happening by any Left wing organization. Another lie by you.
#15317983
@wat0n does not refute the claim that the IDF and Israeli government have dehumanized Palestinians to the point that they are willing to kill over a hundred women and children to save a few Israelis.

JohnRawls wrote:Don't remember in which topic we talked about consequences for Israel. But now Security council unanimously supported permanent ceasefire. The coalition within Israel should fully fall apart soon also. As mentioned, having no political solution will start costing Israel more and more. Now let's see what Netanyahu does.


We shall see. But at this point, it seems like there is no negative impact for Israel at this time.
#15317985
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n does not refute the claim that the IDF and Israeli government have dehumanized Palestinians to the point that they are willing to kill over a hundred women and children to save a few Israelis.



We shall see. But at this point, it seems like there is no negative impact for Israel at this time.


What consequence will satisfy you? 10 US Carrier groups attacking Israel? You know yourself that is never going to happen. So besides that, what would be a consequence that you are satisfied with?
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