Trump found guilty in hush money trial - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15317484
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Here in Arizona as we slowly approach the next election, there is far less visibility of Trump support than four years ago. Whether this actually means anything for the election I can only guess, but the fanatical support I saw in 2020 is just not here. There were Trump stores setup on street corners selling all sorts of Trump junk, but not this year.

I saw more Trump flags, bumper stickers and organized groups encouraging voters in 2020, this year there is no real visibility, the situation is much quieter. I saw 20' long Trump placards in people yards in 2020, nothing like this now, the same neighboring homes that were openly Trump endorsing are much quieter.

If this is anything to go by then Trump is doomed, I personally think he'll get less votes this time because he has alienated and disgusted some former supporters, perhaps not many but they are out there. On the other hand I do not see how he has turned many non-Trump people into Trump supporters this time.

Everyone who wanted to vote for Trump did vote for Trump, they were fanatical and I just see no way that the number of these people can have increased over the past four years.


I don't know man, may be a violation of the constitution and uprising against the democratic vote along with being a felon have something to do with that. But it is just an opinion I guess.

Also its funny how Republicans now see no problem on mass that a presidential candidate is a felon although before that they were against it on mass: https://today.yougov.com/politics/artic ... ty-verdict
#15317640
@Tainari88

Tainari88 wrote:The problem is always the same. You need to fix what is wrong with the system first. Because the way these politicians keep manipulating the rules has to do with a lack of accountability and a systemic failure of the system to contain these people.


You will never be able to completely fix the system. Can you make it better for your own personal interests? Sure. But you will have to fight against opposing interests and defeat them or find a compromise with them after the opposing side decides its in their best interest to compromise with you rather than trying to defeat you. In any political system it centers around the interests of specific segments of a given society. And because political systems always center around interests of various different segments of a given society, it will never be perfect or "right." There are competing interests always battling with each other trying to defeat each other or if it is the best option, compromising with each other.
#15317907
And now it's Hunter Biden's turn:

CNN wrote:Hunter Biden convicted on all 3 charges at federal gun trial
Marshall Cohen Holmes Lybrand
By Marshall Cohen and Holmes Lybrand, CNN
3 minute read
Updated 11:31 AM EDT, Tue June 11, 2024

A federal jury has convicted Hunter Biden on all three federal felony gun charges he faced, concluding that he violated laws meant to prevent drug addicts from owning firearms.

The conviction marks the first time a president’s immediate family member has been found guilty of a crime during their father’s term in office, though his crimes predate Joe Biden’s tenure as president.

The jury, which deliberated for just under three hours, returned guilty verdicts on all three charges, which stemmed from a revolver Hunter Biden bought in October 2018 at a Delaware gun shop. The first two counts were for lying about his drug use on a federal background check form, and the third count was for possessing a gun while addicted to, or using, illegal drugs.

Hunter Biden could face up to 25 years in prison and a fine of up to $750,000 at sentencing, though he likely will receive far less than the maximum as a first-time offender.

The outcome ends a painful chapter for the Biden family, including many members who were directly involved in the courtroom drama. Hunter Biden was in the defendant’s seat; many members of the family, including first lady Jill Biden, were often in the courtroom showing support, and a few family members were called to testify. The first lady arrived at the courthouse shortly after the verdict was read.

Hunter Biden’s conviction comes after a long-running Justice Department investigation that began in 2018, and it raises the stakes for his second scheduled trial, slated to begin in September, on federal tax offenses.

Both cases have been overseen by special counsel David Weiss, who was previously the Trump-appointed US attorney in Delaware. The guilty verdicts in the gun case are a major vindication for Weiss’ team of prosecutors, who have vehemently denied allegations from Hunter Biden’s lawyers that the cases are politically motivated.

President Biden and the White House have repeatedly ruled out a pardon for his son.

The weeklong gun trial featured intensely personal and gut-wrenching testimony about Hunter Biden’s well-known struggles with alcoholism and crack cocaine addiction. It shed a national spotlight on a period that Hunter Biden described in his book as “a blur of complete and utter debauchery” where he did “nothing but drinking and drugging.”

Prosecutors leaned on the testimony of three of Hunter Biden’s ex-partners – including their star witness Hallie Biden, widow of his brother Beau Biden – to tell the jury in excruciating detail how his dependency on crack cocaine led to the end of his marriage, strained his relationships with his kids, and put him in danger on several occasions.

Hunter Biden’s defense team argued, unsuccessfully, that he didn’t actually view himself as a user or addict when he bought and possessed the gun. Defense attorney Abbe Lowell had implored the jury to acquit Hunter Biden on those grounds.

This story is breaking and will be updated.
#15318078
wat0n wrote:And now it's Hunter Biden's turn:


Indeed but look how Republican nutcases are already insisting that this is special treatment. If Hunter was found not guilty they'd complain, if Joe Biden pardoned Hunter they'd complain. Instead he gets found guilty and Joe Biden promises to not pardon him and what do the MAGA Neanderthals' do? complain.
#15318156
RealPolitic wrote:@Tainari88



You will never be able to completely fix the system. Can you make it better for your own personal interests? Sure. But you will have to fight against opposing interests and defeat them or find a compromise with them after the opposing side decides its in their best interest to compromise with you rather than trying to defeat you. In any political system it centers around the interests of specific segments of a given society. And because political systems always center around interests of various different segments of a given society, it will never be perfect or "right." There are competing interests always battling with each other trying to defeat each other or if it is the best option, compromising with each other.


You may be surprised how much can be accomplished by a very organized citizenry and a very organized working class of people. They are very powerful once they ware aware, focused, well organized, and dedicated. In fact, human history is full of stories of tremendous success with ordinary people pulling it together and focusing on change and getting it done. I have seen what it does.

The USA needs to get its act together in time. If it does not? It will have serious consequences. Life-altering and terrible consequences.
#15318269
wat0n wrote:Indeed, whatever stuff about the courts being against or for any of the candidates should be dispelled at last.


Nope.

This apologetic logic does not stand for many reasons.

1) Hunter is not a candidate.
2) Is a shameless junkie whose damage to his dad has a) already been factored in and died out and b) is impossible to hide under the carpet.

Biden the President is not hounded by the US Courts, Trump is.

The legal system has been weaponised and turned against Trump to either prevent him from running or to chip away voters, this is what tin pot dictatorships do.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Indeed but look how Republican nutcases are already insisting that this is special treatment. If Hunter was found not guilty they'd complain, if Joe Biden pardoned Hunter they'd complain. Instead he gets found guilty and Joe Biden promises to not pardon him and what do the MAGA Neanderthals' do? complain.


That's cause it all looks and sounds completely staged. And if it walks and talks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
#15318270
The two party system is sold to us as a great way to give voters a real choice between 2 reasonable political alternatives, both of which can be trusted to run the government. Looking at both the American and British systems it should be noted that they were created / evolved in very different times. Britain had a conservative deferential Christian culture. In the US there weren't even properly ideologically defined parties until recently. Anyway what we get in the modern world with these systems is a battle for de-legitimacy. The main way you compete politically is not by offering a positive vision and programme for the future, but by de-legitemising your opponents. We saw this with the Conservative MPs in Britain who got temporary Labour membership so a s they could vote for Jeremy Corbyn. With Corbyn as leader the Conservatives could say you must vote for us to keep Corbyn out of Number 10.

We saw something similar in 2015, when the Clintons encouraged Trump to enter the Republican nomination. They didn't expect Trump to win, but they thought that his mere presence in the contest would shift the debate and delegitimise the Republicans. Both sides play this game. Both sides seek to convince themselves and the voters that the other party is illegitimate. If the other party wins it is not a legitimate win because of voter fraud or Russian social media bots or whatever. However this show trial is an escalation of the delegitemisation game by the Democrats.
#15318272
Rich wrote:However this show trial is an escalation of the delegitemisation game by the Democrats.


Show trial blah blah blah garbage.

The judge and jury and are not controlled by the Democrats. You people constantly fail to draw a distinction between prosecution and courts. The courts have no choice but to try the cases brought before them.

Trump can appeal if he thinks he's been treated unfairly. Maybe try a better defense this time, less focused on saving Trump's "honor".

Various Trump associates were convicted to prison sentences in the past years. He surrounds himself with thugs.

Much more serious and solid cases are coming.

wat0n wrote:Indeed, whatever stuff about the courts being against or for any of the candidates should be dispelled at last.


I think both cases would not have been tried if Trump and Hunter were just normal people, because it would not be worth the resources. In Hunter's case, the gun crime was all the prosecution uncovered so they went with that.

That said, I don't see much of a problem with putting these people under increased scrutiny. Trump does not have to be a criminal to be politically successful. This is not Russia where you have to be corrupt (legally speaking) to raise to the top, and thus can be purged by "anti-corruption" campaigns.

Both Trump and Hunter are shady as fuck.
#15318589
Tainari88 wrote:
You may be surprised how much can be accomplished by a very organized citizenry and a very organized working class of people. They are very powerful once they ware aware, focused, well organized, and dedicated. In fact, human history is full of stories of tremendous success with ordinary people pulling it together and focusing on change and getting it done. I have seen what it does.

The USA needs to get its act together in time. If it does not? It will have serious consequences. Life-altering and terrible consequences.


Perhaps we need more class consciousness then.
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