Columbia faculty members walk out after pro-Palestinian protesters arrested - Page 52 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15318641
wat0n wrote:People spit on old Jews all the time while saying they do it for Palestine in NYC?

Is that what you're trying to claim? :roll:

Also, is this something that "happens all the time" in NYC or you'll scream to heaven over it now that it is leftists who are in the receiving end of harassment?

https://x.com/mintgowonsgf/status/18025 ... z7xfA&s=19


I find it comical to focus on these clips when we have the wider problem of Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing to deal with.
#15318644
Sherlock Holmes wrote:I find it comical to focus on these clips when we have the wider problem of Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing to deal with.


You mean the problem of Hamas using human shields. Yet there's another thread about that, this one has to do with the antisemitic nature of the American leftist pro-Palestine protesters.

It is also good to see you do not dispute you have double standards here. Typical from the antisemitic left.
User avatar
By Sherlock Holmes
#15318646
wat0n wrote:You mean the problem of Hamas using human shields. Yet there's another thread about that, this one has to do with the antisemitic nature of the American leftist pro-Palestine protesters.

It is also good to see you do not dispute you have double standards here. Typical from the antisemitic left.


You cannot sensibly describe the protests about Gaza being destroyed as "antisemitism" you can't because there are a great many Jews participating in these protests both inside and outside of Israel, something you seem to be in denial about. As for "human shields" this is another tired trope used by the Zionists to mischaracterize the nature of Palestinian resistance, it is a lie as was the baby beheadings and claims of rape by Hamas.
By wat0n
#15318649
Sherlock Holmes wrote:You cannot sensibly describe the protests about Gaza being destroyed as "antisemitism" you can't because there are a great many Jews participating in these protests both inside and outside of Israel, something you seem to be in denial about. As for "human shields" this is another tired trope used by the Zionists to mischaracterize the nature of Palestinian resistance, it is a lie as was the baby beheadings and claims of rape by Hamas.


Just because there are a few Jews who don't mind the antisemitism in the left - one can find all sorts of people - it doesn't mean it does not exist.

The incidents I've shown in the thread aren't somehow debunked by the existence of those tokenized Jews.

The claims of rape by Hamas have been denounced by former hostages. But of course this bullshit about believing women doesn't apply to Jewish women, again, as expected from the usual tankie antisemites.

Likewise, Hamas members may even call civilians to shield their property so they can become martyrs and yet the antisemitic leftists would still deny their use of human shields.
User avatar
By Sherlock Holmes
#15318656
wat0n wrote:Just because there are a few Jews who don't mind the antisemitism in the left - one can find all sorts of people - it doesn't mean it does not exist.


Was Gerald Kaufman or Hajo Meyer antisemitic?

wat0n wrote:The incidents I've shown in the thread aren't somehow debunked by the existence of those tokenized Jews.


But to say that describing Israel and Zionism as a variant of Nazi ideology, is antisemitic is untrue, yes? It must be untrue if there are Jews like Kaufman or Meyer (and many others) saying this.

wat0n wrote:The claims of rape by Hamas have been denounced by former hostages. But of course this bullshit about believing women doesn't apply to Jewish women, again, as expected from the usual tankie antisemites.


I refuse to accept claims by Israel, IDF or by Hamas, about rapes - instead I will rely on an impartial investigation, the one's Israel is refusing to allow.

wat0n wrote:Likewise, Hamas members may even call civilians to shield their property so they can become martyrs and yet the antisemitic leftists would still deny their use of human shields.


If you have concrete, proof, impartial reports of this "human shields" then please share it. I won't pay lip service to the words of the IDF or Knesset any more than you'd accept the claims of Hamas about rape.
By wat0n
#15318661
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Was Gerald Kaufman or Hajo Meyer antisemitic?


Are you saying they were OK with left-wing antisemitism? The moment they were OK with that, then yes they were being antisemitic.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:But to say that describing Israel and Zionism as a variant of Nazi ideology, is antisemitic is untrue, yes? It must be untrue if there are Jews like Kaufman or Meyer (and many others) saying this.


Non-sequitur.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:I refuse to accept claims by Israel, IDF or by Hamas, about rapes - instead I will rely on an impartial investigation, the one's Israel is refusing to allow.


So you also do not believe Israelis who are claiming to have been raped?

Do you believe Palestinians when they claim to have suffered from sexual violence by IDF soldiers?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:If you have concrete, proof, impartial reports of this "human shields" then please share it. I won't pay lip service to the words of the IDF or Knesset any more than you'd accept the claims of Hamas about rape.


I already posted one, from an anti-Israel outlet like The Guardian.
User avatar
By Sherlock Holmes
#15318664
wat0n wrote:Are you saying they were OK with left-wing antisemitism? The moment they were OK with that, then yes they were being antisemitic.


That's frankly sickening, you are willing to stoop to such a level and call a man who suffered in Auschwitz an antisemite or a man who's grandmother was shot by a German soldier in her own bed, an antisemite.

Those man and other speak out against Israel not Jews, but the state and its policies, yet you attack them as people, who's the real antisemite here I wonder...

wat0n wrote:So you also do not believe Israelis who are claiming to have been raped?


I'm not willing to in this case because the Israeli's are refusing allow impartial war crime investigators gather evidence.

wat0n wrote:Do you believe Palestinians when they claim to have suffered from sexual violence by IDF soldiers?


Like who? I'd need to examine the specific case, see if it was investigated by Amnesty International or B'Tselem or some other organization of repute.

wat0n wrote:I already posted one, from an anti-Israel outlet like The Guardian.


Ha, you say "anti Israel" as if that's a bad thing, like a German crying about the Western propaganda in 1941 as being "anti Reichist".
By wat0n
#15318669
Sherlock Holmes wrote:That's frankly sickening, you are willing to stoop to such a level and call a man who suffered in Auschwitz an antisemite or a man who's grandmother was shot by a German soldier in her own bed, an antisemite.

Those man and other speak out against Israel not Jews, but the state and its policies, yet you attack them as people, who's the real antisemite here I wonder...


Don't come up with this crap.

I said quite explicitly when they were being antisemitic.

Justifying left-wing antisemitism isn't the same as attacking Israeli policies.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:I'm not willing to in this case because the Israeli's are refusing allow impartial war crime investigators gather evidence.


Bullshit.

This was not an argument when Kavanaugh was accused of being a rapist. In fact, saying one should wait for an investigation was deemed to be misogyny.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Like who? I'd need to examine the specific case, see if it was investigated by Amnesty International or B'Tselem or some other organization of repute.


They made those claims as mentioned in UN reports, including the Patten report.

NGOs are not impartial.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Ha, you say "anti Israel" as if that's a bad thing, like a German crying about the Western propaganda in 1941 as being "anti Reichist".


Actually I am just being descriptive, the fact an anti-Israel outlet broke the news should dispel any notions of pro-Israel bias.
User avatar
By Sherlock Holmes
#15318671
wat0n wrote:Don't come up with this crap. I said quite explicitly when they were being antisemitic. Justifying left-wing antisemitism isn't the same as attacking Israeli policies.

Tell me then please what do you think the difference is between antisemtisim and antizionism?
wat0n wrote:This was not an argument when Kavanaugh was accused of being a rapist. In fact, saying one should wait for an investigation was deemed to be misogyny.

Well until there's some kind of systematic investigation we don't know if a claim is true or false.
wat0n wrote:They made those claims as mentioned in UN reports, including the Patten report.

Well if you want my view show me a case I can examine.
wat0n wrote:NGOs are not impartial.

Yes, I hear this a lot from Zionists.
wat0n wrote:Actually I am just being descriptive, the fact an anti-Israel outlet broke the news should dispel any notions of pro-Israel bias.

But still no details, like names, dates?

The Zionist regime is uninterested in an independent investigation, right there they lose all credibility.

This was published just last week:

Israel’s obstruction of investigation into 7 October rape allegations risks truth never being found, advocates warn.

According to The Times newspaper, Israeli advocates for the female survivors of the alleged sexual assault are now warning that the government’s obstruction of a full and legal investigation risks the possibility of ever reaching the truth about the allegations and the events.

One of those advocates is Orit Sulitzeanu, the executive director of ARCCI (Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel), highlighted the lack of expertise that many of the first responders on Octover 7 had, with members from the ultra-orthodox volunteer organisation Zaka – who were amongst those first responders – not being trained in forensics nor doing anything other than retrieving the remains found at the kibbutzim and effected areas.

“They are all religious guys; most of them are ultra-religious. They never saw a woman except their wife”, Sulitzeanu is quoted as saying. “So to see all these bodies, how did they deal with that?”

The report stated that forensic assessments were also made by women who were far from qualified, as well as repeating stories even after being proven false. Israeli legal expert Cochav Elkayam-Levy, for example, who formed a “civil commission” to collect evidence of the alleged sexual violence and is apparently a close associate of prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, had repeated debunked stories of a pregnant Israeli woman and her foetus, as well as having circulated photos of dead female Israeli soldiers who then turned out to be Kurdish fighters killed in Syria.


So please don't cry crocodile tears for these alleged rape victims when the Zionists are doing all they can to prevent their claims from being investigated, that's misogyny right there.
By wat0n
#15318673
Sherlock Holmes wrote:Tell me then please what do you think the difference is between antisemtisim and antizionism?


Most of the time, the latter is an example of the former.

Uncommonly, antizionism isn't antisemitic like in the odd instances when the antizionist is an anarchist who believes all states should be destroyed.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Well until there's some kind of systematic investigation we don't know if a claim is true or false.


Are you saying #MeToo was wrong?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Well if you want my view show me a case I can examine.


The report only mentions testimonies, keeping the names confidential.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Yes, I hear this a lot from Zionists.


And it is true. Even in BT'selem, let alone Amnesty.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:But still no details, like names, dates?

The Zionist regime is uninterested in an independent investigation, right there they lose all credibility.

This was published just last week:

Israel’s obstruction of investigation into 7 October rape allegations risks truth never being found, advocates warn.



So please don't cry crocodile tears for these alleged rape victims when the Zionists are doing all they can to prevent their claims from being investigated, that's misogyny right there.


I am referring to The Guardian reporting on Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza as early as 2006.

And we have a name: Amit Soussana.
#15318684
    The principles
    While the extended and detailed account can be read here, what follows is a high-level summary. The principles mostly detail relevant law, but in some cases also express our view of university best practice requires.

    Students have the right to freedom of expression and of peaceful assembly and association, under Articles 10 and 11 of the European convention on human rights (ECHR). UK public universities are required to respect and secure those rights under the Human Rights Act 1998. These laws protect a freedom of peaceful protest even if it is disruptive or even offensive to some.

    The freedom of expression and peaceful assembly extends to student occupations of buildings and other university spaces. This can even include lengthy ones that breach domestic law.

    Calls for boycott and divestment from companies implicated in human rights abuses is a common and protected form of civil rights advocacy, and is not in itself antisemitic.

    Human rights law recognises that the right to protest may be restricted where it is necessary in a democratic society. A university has rights as a landowner, and contractual obligations to maintain its core educational functions, including fulfilment of the right to education under the ECHR.

    A tent encampment aimed at protesting a university’s investment programme (and which limits noise and other disruptions from unduly interrupting revision, teaching, examining and other core educational functions) would fall within the sphere of protected speech and assembly. Universities must accommodate them.

    On the other hand, universities and their students are not legally required to withstand a permanent and seriously disruptive occupation that brings campus life and activities to a halt. Protests that directly obstruct teaching and examining (for example, occupying a lecture theatre in the middle of teaching) to a major extent can be subject to legitimate restriction.


https://theconversation.com/gaza-campus ... ies-231629

According to several UK human rights scholars, including one who focuses on the Holocaust, the student protesters are, by and large, exercising their rights and the universities are running risks by stopping them.
#15318685
Too bad they are not assembling peacefully, there is no right to harass others. The encampments do not limit noise and are in fact disruptive, as attested by several students at UCLA who had to deal with the noise when doing their finals

It seems these scholars are defending some hypothetical non-existing protests, not the actual protests in the US.
#15318687
wat0n wrote:Too bad they are not assembling peacefully, there is no right to harass others. The encampments do not limit noise and are in fact disruptive, as attested by several students at UCLA who had to deal with the noise when doing their finals

It seems these scholars are defending some hypothetical non-existing protests, not the actual protests in the US.


Quote the twxt
#15318688
wat0n wrote:You mean the problem of Hamas using human shields. Yet there's another thread about that, this one has to do with the antisemitic nature of the American leftist pro-Palestine protesters.

It is also good to see you do not dispute you have double standards here. Typical from the antisemitic left.

Isn't it funny how every enemy of the jews uses human sheilds?
#15318690
@FiveofSwords funny because Hamas has already called Palestinian civilians to act as human shields in the past, and their use as human shields is part of Sinwar's strategy.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Quote the twxt


WSJ wrote:The UCLA Police Department said about 100 people put up tents and barriers Monday afternoon and moved the encampment twice after being ordered to disperse. The protesters made enough noise to disrupt students taking final exams nearby, police said. The people in the demonstration were affiliated with a student group on campus, according to the police department.


Also interesting:

WSJ wrote:Academic workers in the University of California system have been on strike since last month in response to their schools’ crackdowns on pro-Palestinian protests. A superior court judge in Orange County, Calif., on Friday ordered the union representing the workers to temporarily halt its strike, saying it was disruptive to students in the final days of the school year. The United Auto Workers local 4811 represents 48,000 academic workers across the UC system’s 10 campuses and the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.


I will also note this analysis does not even mention the incidents of harassment that actually prompted the reaction to disperse the protesters.
#15318696
wat0n wrote:@FiveofSwords funny because Hamas has already called Palestinian civilians to act as human shields in the past, and their use as human shields is part of Sinwar's strategy.





Also interesting:



I will also note this analysis does not even mention the incidents of harassment that actually prompted the reaction to disperse the protesters.


It's funny because anyone can just kill 30k women and children and then just mumble 'human shields' and nobody will dare to ask questions. The usa should have pretended nuking Hiroshima was just killing human sheilds...I guess that would solve the PR problem.
#15318698
FiveofSwords wrote:It's funny because anyone can just kill 30k women and children and then just mumble 'human shields' and nobody will dare to ask questions. The usa should have pretended nuking Hiroshima was just killing human sheilds...I guess that would solve the PR problem.


Not only you're getting the figures of women and children dead in Gaza wrong, but in any event plenty of Americans are OK with having nuked Hiroshima since it helped to end the war more quickly. Hint: Conventional bombing killed more civilians than the nuclear attacks did, despite this, Japan did not surrender.
#15318714
wat0n wrote:Not only you're getting the figures of women and children dead in Gaza wrong, but in any event plenty of Americans are OK with having nuked Hiroshima since it helped to end the war more quickly. Hint: Conventional bombing killed more civilians than the nuclear attacks did, despite this, Japan did not surrender.

I disagree. Most Americans were okay with killing all those people because they think it is awesome that we had so much power.
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