South Africa launches case at UN court accusing Israel of genocide - Page 71 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15318665
wat0n wrote:Antisemitism is common in Gaza, and you still have not explain why is it that they killed civilians indiscriminately, including elderly peace activists.

That's like saying antigermanism was common in the Jewish ghettos during the 1940s, it's known as a truism. I'd say the "why" is obvious, crystal clear to anyone but a Zionist.
wat0n wrote:Well, the ones in this letter are certainly international law scholars

The term genocide appears in that letter once:

As these widespread, horrendous acts appear to have been carried out with an “intent to destroy, in whole or in part” a national group – Israelis – a goal explicitly declared by Hamas, they most probably constitute an international crime of genocide, proscribed by the Genocide Convention and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.


That's an informal opinion, a "probable", not a formal court finding like those by the ICJ and ICC.
wat0n wrote:By the way, according to my own research South Africa's claims are bullshit and it started this case to get the ICJ to order provisional measures that would save Hamas.

Very odd, one minute your citing legal experts and the next your trashing them.
wat0n wrote:None of these are "reputable Jews", just some of your leftist allies.

That's being silly anyone can see these men were well known public figures, their biographies are well known, they have a reputation, they were respected (except by Jew haters).

Gerald Kaufman
Hajo Meyer
Yeshayahu Leibowitz
wat0n wrote:I'm not contradicting myself. This attack was launched by Hamas, if Israeli civilians were killed as collateral damage it was because Hamas used them as human shields, exactly as it does to Palestinians. They were not targeted by the IDF.

The attack was in fact launched by the Zionists in 1948 but you don't care for truth. There are many detailed reports that say these victims WERE targeted by the IDF, even in the Israeli press. Furthermore the IDF are on record as having a Hannibal doctrine, have you really not heard of that even?
wat0n wrote:You think Jews can't be antisemitic? Because this is demonstrably false.

I agree, I'm speaking to one right now in this reply.
#15318670
Sherlock Holmes wrote:That's like saying antigermanism was common in the Jewish ghettos during the 1940s, it's known as a truism. I'd say the "why" is obvious, crystal clear to anyone but a Zionist.


Quite a soft stance on antisemitism. After all, if we talk about why many Israelis are bigoted against Palestinians, you are not so charitable or concerned about their reasons.

It's almost as if you believed antisemitism isn't a big deal or, worse, you believed it wasn't a bad thing.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:The term genocide appears in that letter once:



That's an informal opinion, a "probable", not a formal court finding like those by the ICJ and ICC.


Neither court has found Israel committed genocide.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Very odd, one minute your citing legal experts and the next your trashing them.


I can cite those from Israel's legal team if you want. Or are you going to trash them now?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:That's being silly anyone can see these men were well known public figures, their biographies are well known, they have a reputation, they were respected (except by Jew haters).

Gerald Kaufman
Hajo Meyer


"Well known" is not the same as reputable. They were only reputable in leftist circles and their academic fields, not in broader society.

Kaufman was also corrupt, which is pretty much the opposite of being reputable for most people (although excusing corruption is common in the left, too, when leftists benefit).

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Yeshayahu Leibowitz


Leibowitz was in fact reputable enough to win the Israel Prize, which implies there was broad recognition of his accomplishments. He was also not even anti-Zionist, just opposed to the occupation. His points are correct, too, but incomplete since he did not witness the Second Intifada, Hamas' rule over Gaza or October 7 since he died in 1994.

It's far from clear he'd take the simplistic view that Palestinians have no agency if he was still alive.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:The attack was in fact launched by the Zionists in 1948 but you don't care for truth.


Wrong, too. If you want to discuss who started attacking, the only correct conclusion is that Palestinian extremists did in the 1920s. Particularly Hebron in 1929.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:There are many detailed reports that say these victims WERE targeted by the IDF, even in the Israeli press. Furthermore the IDF are on record as having a Hannibal doctrine, have you really not heard of that even?


No such details have been provided.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:I agree, I'm speaking to one right now in this reply.


Typical from antisemites to project their bigotry on others.

I mean, you even deny evident instances of antisemitism like spitting on an old Jew unprovoked "for Palestine". So it's not like your judgment is reliable.
#15318676
From the IPC famine review committee link posted earlier:

    The FRC would like to use this opportunity to
    communicate two extremely important points:

    Firstly, all stakeholders who use the IPC for high-level decision-making must understand that whether a Famine classification is confirmed does not in any manner change the fact that extreme human suffering is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip and does not in any manner change the immediate humanitarian imperative to address this civilian suffering by enabling complete, safe, unhindered, and sustained humanitarian access into and throughout the Gaza Strip, including through ceasing hostilities. All actors should not wait until a Famine classification for the current period is made to act accordingly.

    Secondly, the FRC would like to highlight that the very fact that we are unable to endorse (or not) FEWS NET’s analysis is driven by the lack of essential up to date
    data on human well-being in Northern Gaza, and Gaza at large. Thus, the FRC strongly requests all parties to enable humanitarian access in general, and specifically
    to provide a window of opportunity to conduct field surveys in Northern Gaza to have more solid evidence of the food consumption, nutrition, and mortality situation.


So the claim that the IPC does not think this is a famine is incorrect.
#15318678
wat0n wrote:I mean, you even deny evident instances of antisemitism like spitting on an old Jew unprovoked "for Palestine". So it's not like your judgment is reliable.


In my view an antisemite is someone who targets any Jew not just the ideology of some Jews, that's really all there is to this and constantly playing the antisemite card (even against other Jews now) is an act of desperation.

As for the clip? that might or might not be antisemitism I have no idea, but frankly its far less disturbing than this clip, the daily norm, routine experiences of non-Jews in the occupied territories:



To these IDF scumbags chasing, hurting and terrorizing non-Jews is a sport, fun, such is the depravity.

Face facts, your a rabid neo-Nazi racial supremacist to whom ONLY Zionist Jews matter.
#15318679
Pants-of-dog wrote:From the IPC famine review committee link posted earlier:



So the claim that the IPC does not think this is a famine is incorrect.


Where in that text does it say the FRC believes a famine is ongoing in northern Gaza?

It seems you're desperate and now pushing an obvious lie.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:In my view an antisemite is someone who targets any Jew not just the ideology of some Jews, that's really all there is to this and constantly playing the antisemite card (even against other Jews now) is an act of desperation.

As for the clip? that might or might not be antisemitism I have no idea, but frankly its far less disturbing than this, the daily norm, routine experiences of non-Jews in the occupied territories:



Face facts, your a rabid neo-Nazi racial supremacist to whom ONLY Zionist Jews matter.


I agree it is wrong to push a Palestinian from a wheelchair. That doesn't make spitting on old Jews in NYC excusable, as tankies like yourself do.

Why do you insist on it? Because you're projecting, and you agree with harassing Jews.
#15318680
wat0n wrote:I agree it is wrong to push a Palestinian from a wheelchair. That doesn't make spitting on old Jews in NYC excusable, as tankies like yourself do.

You're making up strawmen now, attacking the claim that is excusable to spit on an "old Jew" when nobody put forward such a claim. You can't attack my arguments so lets make some up and attack them instead!
wat0n wrote:Why do you insist on it? Because you're projecting, and you agree with harassing Jews.

I challenge you here and now in public, in this forum, in this or any other discussion thread to quote me saying I "agree with harassing Jews".

You are a poor debater, a liar, a coward, and a rabid racist and xenophobe allowing emotion and racial supremacy to cloud your judgement.

Why you choose not to live in Israel mystifies me, just think of all those Palestinians you could persecute all those homes you could evict people from...
#15318681
Sherlock Holmes wrote:You're making up strawmen now, attacking the claim that is excusable to spit on an "old Jew" when nobody put forward such a claim. You can't attack my arguments so lets make some up and attack them instead!


You are minimizing the incident, and doing some whataboutism instead.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:I challenge you here and now in public, in this forum, in this or any other discussion thread to quote me saying I "agree with harassing Jews".

You are a poor debater, a liar, a coward, and a rabid racist and xenophobe allowing emotion and racial supremacy to cloud your judgement.


Stop fucking whining.

You've been denying, despite the video evidence of it, and then justifying such harassment against Jews and Israelis by deflecting on the responsibility of your tankie buddies.

Just because you lack the honesty of saying it upfront, it doesn't mean one can't tell.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:Why you choose not to live in Israel mystifies me, just think of all those Palestinians you could persecute all those homes you could evict people from...


Why do you want me to move there? Are you going to go full on MAGA and advocate for deporting foreigners who disagree with your politics out?

Have you ever considered I may have my own reservations about Israel, about the settlements and about also certain aspects of Israeli society not discussed here and that do not necessarily have to do anything with the Palestinians?
#15318682
wat0n wrote:You are minimizing the incident, and doing some whataboutism instead.



Stop fucking whining.

You've been denying, despite the video evidence of it, and then justifying such harassment against Jews and Israelis by deflecting on the responsibility of your tankie buddies.

Just because you lack the honesty of saying it upfront, it doesn't mean one can't tell.



Why do you want me to move there? Are you going to go full on MAGA and advocate for deporting foreigners who disagree with your politics out?

Have you ever considered I may have my own reservations about Israel, about the settlements and about also certain aspects of Israeli society not discussed here and that do not necessarily have to do anything with the Palestinians?


So, you can't quote me after all can you, like I said you are liar and now you are getting very emotional and resorting to foul language because you can't have your own way, stamping your feet. You likely do have reservations I'm sure but not the same ones that most of the world's population have, not the same one's the UN have, not the same one's Amnesty International or B'Tselem have or the populations of Gaza and the West Bank have or that Kaufman had or Hajo Meyer had...
#15318683
Sherlock Holmes wrote:So, you can't quote me after all can you, like I said you are liar and now you are getting very emotional and resorting to foul language because you can't have your own way, stamping your feet. You likely do have reservations I'm sure but not the same ones that most of the world's population have, not the same one's the UN have, not the same one's Amnesty International or B'Tselem have...


No evidence about whatever reservations most of the world's population has about Israel (I think most people do not care about much that happens beyond their country's borders as long as they aren't personally affected). The UN, AI and BT'selem are all political bodies, why would I be expected to have their same "concerns" about Israel?

Yes, this eternal conflict is one of my concerns (hence why I mentioned the settlements) but even that is one thing I could live with under certain conditions (which Israel does not meet since its politicians are not, in fact, managing the conflict correctly). Yet there are other not quite related internal issues within Israel I am also not willing to deal with since I would not be able to solve them anyway, just not my cup of tea. There are many good things about Israel compared to most countries, yet it is not the country I would base my idealized country on.
#15318686
wat0n wrote:Where in that text does it say the FRC believes a famine is ongoing in northern Gaza?

It seems you're desperate and now pushing an obvious lie.


You seem to have misread the report.

The report clearly indicates that the lack of findings is due solely to a lack of information and that it is incorrect to use the report to claim there is no famine.
#15318689
Pants-of-dog wrote:You seem to have misread the report.

The report clearly indicates that the lack of findings is due solely to a lack of information and that it is incorrect to use the report to claim there is no famine.


There is also no evidence that there is a famine in Gaza according to the FRC.

Even worse, the FRC states that current imports of food do meet the caloric requirements of Gazans and that previous reports were wrong in not including commercial imports and aid delivered by airdrops.

Time for you to show such famine is ongoing.
#15318693
wat0n wrote:That's because Israel isn't an Apartheid regime, no matter what October 7 apologists believe.

Lol...bro...Arabs literally have to drive on different roads than jews and spend hours at checkpoints where they are occasionally randomly killed by an Israeli sniper in a bad mood

Israel is far worse to arabs than the Dutch ever were to the bantu.
#15318697
FiveofSwords wrote:Lol...bro...Arabs literally have to drive on different roads than jews and spend hours at checkpoints where they are occasionally randomly killed by an Israeli sniper in a bad mood

Israel is far worse to arabs than the Dutch ever were to the bantu.


Not in Tel Aviv or Haifa. Why? Because the situation on the ground is very different.

Also, the roads are separated by citizenship, not ethnicity. Hint: Israeli Arabs drive on the roads for Israeli citizens.
#15318702
wat0n wrote:There are many good things about Israel compared to most countries.


If one is a Zionist, yes, we all know that, free houses, free land, free farms where those inconvenient Palestinians "voluntarily" migrated from not to mention cheap labor and lots of free money and weapons courtesy of the US taxpayer, Jew only roads, no tiresome checkpoints, plenty of water and on and on the list goes...

Afrikaners (also "settlers" incidentally) used to say the same about South Africa once too.
#15318706
wat0n wrote:There is also no evidence that there is a famine in Gaza according to the FRC.

Even worse, the FRC states that current imports of food do meet the caloric requirements of Gazans and that previous reports were wrong in not including commercial imports and aid delivered by airdrops.

Time for you to show such famine is ongoing.


No, you misread that part too.

You perhaps did not understand what is meant by “ the fact that extreme human suffering is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip ”.
#15318707
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, you misread that part too.

You perhaps did not understand what is meant by “ the fact that extreme human suffering is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip ”.


Which is not even close to being the same as a famine.

Extreme human suffering also happened on October 7 in Israel yet it was not a famine either.

Will you stop bullshitting here?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:If one is a Zionist, yes, we all know that, free houses, free land, free farms where those inconvenient Palestinians "voluntarily" migrated from not to mention cheap labor and lots of free money and weapons courtesy of the US taxpayer, Jew only roads, no tiresome checkpoints, plenty of water and on and on the list goes...

Afrikaners (also "settlers" incidentally) used to say the same about South Africa once too.


Even Israeli Arabs can attest to it. They are much better off in Israel than in most of the Arab world, not just warzones like Syria, Gaza or even the West Bank but even Jordan and Egypt. They are also better off than the average Latin American, which is not too bad.

So you're full of shit, again.
#15318710
Sherlock Holmes wrote:...The "settlement movement" has been an integral part of Zionism ...

It is not a result of Jewish descendants trying to right wrongs... if that were true they'd be extracting territory from Germany where six million were systematically executed not Palestine where they'd lived more or less safely for two thousand years.


This is the inherent flaw of Zionism. It is built on scapegoating a helpless group of innocent people.

And it stinks of European racism and realpolitik because of this.

Europeans to one another: "Go steal land from some non-Europeans near the oil fields, and then the holocausts will stop."

Palestine had zero to do with this, they were scapegoated.

Abrahamic religions seem to have a flawed worldview and practice X-treme Scapegoating to mask the results of their flawed worldview.
#15318720
wat0n wrote:Which is not even close to being the same as a famine.

Extreme human suffering also happened on October 7 in Israel yet it was not a famine either.


No amount of evidence will convince a genocide denier that famine is happening.

The evidence has been presented in these threads and in the news for months.

Here is yet another example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/1 ... s-who-says

Thousands of Palestinian children in Gaza have been diagnosed with malnutrition, the World Health Organization (WHO) has said, as Israel continues to severely restrict supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel to the territory.

“A significant proportion of Gaza’s population is now facing catastrophic hunger and famine-like conditions,” WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters on Wednesday.


The only thing that the IPC report says is that the IPC does not have the data to make a determination one way or another.

Mostly because the IDF and Israeli government will not allow the data to be collected.
#15318724
Pants-of-dog wrote:No amount of evidence will convince a genocide denier that famine is happening.

The evidence has been presented in these threads and in the news for months.

Here is yet another example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/1 ... s-who-says


Too bad it is not evidence of famine according to the FRC. Hint: There is a minimum rate of malnutrition that has to be achieved for a famine to be declared, and Gaza's children are not above it.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The only thing that the IPC report says is that the IPC does not have the data to make a determination one way or another.

Mostly because the IDF and Israeli government will not allow the data to be collected.


The IPC has no issues collecting whatever data it can in places even more dangerous than Gaza, like Sudan or Somalia, to make these assessments and the FRC does agree with them.

No, you're just making shit up and lying about what the FRC has said.

And you're still ignoring the actual quotation regarding the caloric availability in Gaza based on the data the FRC does have.
#15318742
wat0n wrote:Too bad it is not evidence of famine according to the FRC. Hint: There is a minimum rate of malnutrition that has to be achieved for a famine to be declared, and Gaza's children are not above it.


According to the evidence previously presented, there are many parts of Gaza where famine is already occurring.

On May 26, the IPC published a statement showing that most of northern Gaza was already dealing with famine, I quoted it in this thread on that day.

The IPC has no issues collecting whatever data it can in places even more dangerous than Gaza, like Sudan or Somalia, to make these assessments and the FRC does agree with them.

No, you're just making shit up and lying about what the FRC has said.




    Secondly, the FRC would like to highlight that the very fact that we are unable to endorse (or not) FEWS NET’s analysis is driven by the lack of essential up to date
    data on human well-being in Northern Gaza, and Gaza at large. Thus, the FRC strongly requests all parties to enable humanitarian access in general, and specifically
    to provide a window of opportunity to conduct field surveys in Northern Gaza to have more solid evidence of the food consumption, nutrition, and mortality situation.


Apologies for quoting this again, but apparently it was not read correctly the first time.

This part clearly disproves the claim that the FRC has the access required to make a clear decision.

And you're still ignoring the actual quotation regarding the caloric availability in Gaza based on the data the FRC does have.


Your own source clearly indicates that it is a faulty assumption to assume that these calories are actually available to most Gaza residents, since they are not affordable.

Since your argument rests in this faulty assumption that has been contradicted by your own evidence, this argument can be dismissed as a weak refutation of the ongoing genocide.
  • 1
  • 69
  • 70
  • 71
  • 72
  • 73
  • 78
World War II Day by Day

July 13, Saturday Germans decide on plan for inv[…]

The Supreme Court decision is absurd. President o[…]

Over the last two years, the U.S. Federal Reserve […]

I certainly don't buy they're protesting genocide […]