If races are not real, then you have to be logically consistent - Page 58 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15318709
Pants-of-dog wrote:@FiveofSwords

So you agree that the genocide narrative was not the actual reason for the NATO attack on Milosevic, and that the real reason was that Milosevic threatened western economic interests in the region.

Consequently, there is no evidence that the USA would attack anyone who merely wanted to genocide other ethnicities.

My argument was that the usa attacked milosevik because he wanted to create a Serbian nation state.

I mentioned that it is pretty absurd to think you cannot trade with a state if it doesn't have a 20% albanian population.

I woukd also doubt it is good for business to alienate a bunch of countries, including Russia, who don't understand the us obsession
#15318712
Tainari88 wrote:...A lumpen is a person who is not a regular working-class person. The working class who are organized and join organizations to change their socioeconomic power relationships with those in a class struggle with them are not lumpen.

Lumpen are people who are ignorant and have working-class backgrounds but REFUSE to work for a living or do any productive activity and who REFUSE to join any kind of organization to change their conditions of life. They are disorganized, disaffected people who never do a damn thing that is productive.

They refuse to work for a living, they are not from the bourgeoisie, and they are not cooperating with their class. They are a marginalized class that is a perpetual grifter type with no real sense of class consciousness. ...


Prostitutes are usually considered of the lumpenproloteriat class.

Most of the working people I know, and almost all the wealthy successful people I have met, are all prostitutes at some level. They smile for dollars.

And it may very well be true that prostitutes (whatever their gimmick or career) can never truly grasp *revolutionary equality* or *equitable resource allocation*. The polished, refined, ass-kissing professional class can only speak of revolutionary texts, but they live off the scum of inequality as tokens, so they can't rock the boat themselves.

(Race has given way to Class in this thread, but sadly, classism has taken the hideous place of racism as well)

***

ingliz wrote:...It's not my fault if FiveofSword's idea of what constitutes a "race" determinant is bollocks too.

...Ethnicity is a categorization based on language or common ancestry.


But isn't "common ancestry" virtually the same concept as "DNA"?

Are you and FiveofSwords on the exact same page, but using slightly different vocabularies?
#15318721
FiveofSwords wrote:My argument was that the usa attacked milosevik because he wanted to create a Serbian nation state.


…which is contradicted by the fact that he was a self styled communist who wanted to trade with Russia and China and thereby threaten western economic interests in the region.

I mentioned that it is pretty absurd to think you cannot trade with a state if it doesn't have a 20% albanian population.


This is completely irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything I said.

I woukd also doubt it is good for business to alienate a bunch of countries, including Russia, who don't understand the us obsession


The US is not alienating Russia, just threatening the economic cartel running Russia.
#15318726
QatzelOk wrote:Prostitutes are usually considered of the lumpenproloteriat class.

Most of the working people I know, and almost all the wealthy successful people I have met, are all prostitutes at some level. They smile for dollars.

And it may very well be true that prostitutes (whatever their gimmick or career) can never truly grasp *revolutionary equality* or *equitable resource allocation*. The polished, refined, ass-kissing professional class can only speak of revolutionary texts, but they live off the scum of inequality as tokens, so they can't rock the boat themselves.

(Race has given way to Class in this thread, but sadly, classism has taken the hideous place of racism as well)

***



But isn't "common ancestry" virtually the same concept as "DNA"?

Are you and FiveofSwords on the exact same page, but using slightly different vocabularies?

In english, an ethnicity also implies things about language, religion, customs. Race is just about biology. They are not the same word.

Common ancestry only implies dna if you believe genes are heritable, which ing has previously denied believing.

Your complaining about racism and classism is incoherent...as is your decision to categorize all people as prostitutes and therefore lumpenproletariat.
#15318728
ingliz wrote:Germany was aware of what would happen if they invaded. Britain promised on March 31, 1939, that if Germany made aggressive moves toward Poland, they would come to Poland’s defence. Many British politicians feared the implications of not keeping the promise to Poland, and they were done giving Hitler the benefit of the doubt.

Indeed and the way Hitler's regime behaved in Poland after they had conquered it certainly vindicated that decision. However this doesn't escape the fact that Britain under Chamberlain's leadership started general war, started a great power war. Germany was the second biggest economy in the world, without the racist view that European life was worth more than non European life then the allies moral superiority in August 1939 was not quite so self evident. Given the British, French, Belgian, Dutch and American empires, Britain and France were not in a strong moral position to lecture Germany on carving out an its own empire in Eastern Europe.
#15318729
FiveofSwords wrote:...Germany never hit Timmy, though.

It hit Timmy's friend.
The fact the uk didn't care about poland is quite obvious considering they failed to declare war on thr ussr when it invaded 2 weeks later. So the reason they gave was stupid. What would you figure is the real reason?

The Soviets laid a diplomatic smokescreen that made it hard to tell what they were up to. They claimed to be defending Poland.
I think the most likely explanation is that Churchill was simply owned by jews. Indeed, I hyper zionist jew who controlled shell oil paid off Churchill gambling debts, and that is when Churchill began ranting about hitler...never paid attention to him before that.

Oh, please. Churchill wasn't even in the cabinet until war was declared.
#15318732
There was no over arching Jewish conspiracy that lay behind Orthodox Marxism, Kulturbolschewismus, international banking and Zionism. As today there is no over arching Jewish conspiracy behind Cultural Marxism and support for Israel. However in the early twentieth century people of Jewish decent were massively over represented in finance, banking and in left and far left political leadership. People of Jewish decent were massively over represented both in what you might call extreme socialism and extreme capitalism or extreme individual capital accumulation. They were massively over represented in both the physical and social sciences that appeared to be "stealing" the very ground from under our feet.

In the extremely traumatic and fevered conditions of Europe at the end of the First World War and in its aftermath of revolution, counter revolution and crisis, its not surprising that many people put these disparate phenomena together and stated to identify Jews as an anti anti national and anti social force if not in some out and out conspiracy.

In today's world there is no overarching conspiracy behind Zionism and Cultural Marxism. you can not be both an extreme Zionist and an extreme Cultural Marxist, they are in compatible ideologies. However both Jewish Supremacists and Cultural Marxists use similar tactics and often employ similar arguments and both seek to lie about distort our history in similar ways. In the same way that women must always be believed if they make accusation against a White man (Well unless that "White" man is Joe Biden of course), a Jew must always be believed if he makes accusations if accuses a Gentile of "Antisemitism". To deny or "minimise" antisemitism is itself a hate crime. To deny ones guilt is itself proof of guilt. What joy its been to see the Cornynistas witch hunted out of the British Labour using the very same lying dishonest tactics that they like to use themselves.

Although extremist Jewish Supremacist and Cultural Marxism are incompatible the establishment centre tries to bridge the gap. The establishment is centred around Judophillia and Islamophillia. and if you listen to what the Marxists say, Israel and Zionism have nothing to do with Jews, Judaism or Jewishness, in the same way that 9/11 was nothing to do with Islam or Muslims.
#15318736
@Rich

Israel and Zionism have something to do with some Jews.

And 911 had something to do with some Muslims.

But that doesn't mean all Jews and all Muslims had something to do with either.

It's the same with @FiveofSwords and his bullshit ideology.

Just because some whites are racist arseholes doesn't make all whites racist arseholes.

Your love of generalising trips you up.


:)
#15318739
What in the fuck is Cultural Marxism?

America is culturally Marxist, but economically and politically capitalist. Seriously, what the fuck is this bullshit term of "Cultural Marxism?" I never looked into it, I thought it was made up by that the mentally ill Canadian guy with the weird voice who wants to fuck lobsters.

Rich is using it, and his only criticism of Hitler is that he wasn't properly recognized as the biggest victim of Liberalism. If Rich has any ideological consistency, he would agree that Hitler was the greatest victim of Cultural Marxism. You could almost describe Cultural Marxism as the thing that drove Hitler to suicide. Cultural Marxism is evil, and its inherent flaws failed to validate and uplift Adolph Hitler's existence (which is a bad thing. Hitler, like any living being, should always feel validated).

Anyway, I know whatever the fuck "Cultural Marxism" is, it's very stupid or very racist. So which is it?
#15318744
Truth To Power wrote:It hit Timmy's friend.

The Soviets laid a diplomatic smokescreen that made it hard to tell what they were up to. They claimed to be defending Poland.

Oh, please. Churchill wasn't even in the cabinet until war was declared.

Dude...why was poland supposed to be such a close friend of the uk? Why wasn't danzig? Poland invaded and occupied danzig which was supposed to be independent and Hitler responded. Hitler did not want a war in fact he delayed his attack because poland pretended to want a peace deal (but they were lying). The ussr invaded poland the uk didn't care. Churchill was a powerful vouce in england and he wasn't the only guy bought off by zionists. Chamberlain hand was forced despite him being too slow for the jews and that is why his name is remembered as an icon of shame.

And lol what hell are you trying with this smokescreen nonsense. We know from uk records that they knew about the molotov ribbentrop pact before it was even signed.
Last edited by FiveofSwords on 19 Jun 2024 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
#15318745
SpecialOlympian wrote:What in the fuck is Cultural Marxism?

America is culturally Marxist, but economically and politically capitalist. Seriously, what the fuck is this bullshit term of "Cultural Marxism?" I never looked into it, I thought it was made up by that the mentally ill Canadian guy with the weird voice who wants to fuck lobsters.

Rich is using it, and his only criticism of Hitler is that he wasn't properly recognized as the biggest victim of Liberalism. If Rich has any ideological consistency, he would agree that Hitler was the greatest victim of Cultural Marxism. You could almost describe Cultural Marxism as the thing that drove Hitler to suicide. Cultural Marxism is evil, and its inherent flaws failed to validate and uplift Adolph Hitler's existence (which is a bad thing. Hitler, like any living being, should always feel validated).

Anyway, I know whatever the fuck "Cultural Marxism" is, it's very stupid or very racist. So which is it?

Cultural Marxism is a bs term used to avoid saying culturally jewish.
#15318752
QatzelOk wrote:Prostitutes are usually considered of the lumpenproletariat class.

Most of the working people I know, and almost all the wealthy successful people I have met, are all prostitutes at some level. They smile for dollars.

And it may very well be true that prostitutes (whatever their gimmick or career) can never truly grasp *revolutionary equality* or *equitable resource allocation*. The polished, refined, ass-kissing professional class can only speak of revolutionary texts, but they live off the scum of inequality as tokens, so they can't rock the boat themselves.

(Race has given way to Class in this thread, but sadly, classism has taken the hideous place of racism as well)


Q, there is a very important distinction between an organized and conscious working class and a lumpen. Most people in Latin America, Africa, and so on are either working class or peasant class. Both. They work very hard, are into membership of organizations that protect their interests. According to Oscar Lewis, the lumpen wrote two books on the poor of Latin America, one in Mexico and another in Puerto Rico. 'La Vida' was about the Puerto Rican lumpen class and 'Los Hijos de Sanchez' or the Children of Sanchez was about the Mexican lumpen. He was very specific about why a family or a group are lumpen and why they are not.

This whole culture of poverty goes away if you remove capitalism from the equation. If you have people who can't grift off of illegal gambling, exploitation of sex trafficking illegal drug dealing, etc? You remove that element of making a living. You never do a socially conscious project with lumpen. It is about some social and economic harm in the society.

Oscar Lewis was criticized heavily for saying there existed a culture of poverty. Poverty promotes lumpenprole behavior. That is proven.

But you have to see why so many other working-class people and peasants do not choose the prostitution route. Or the drug dealing route. You talk to them. Why did you not become this or that? They will answer you with sincerity.

Many sex worker women never really chose that profession. They tried fast food jobs, and other jobs and it was low paying. They had no other 'skill set', and were often stuck in some loop of total frustration and were often victims of child sexual abuse. They got used to being used and abused and might as well make money at it. Most of that work is psychologically damaging along with a physical risk. They often have to go get tested for STDs and HIV. Why risk your health and mental sanity on such a profession? The ones who do it professionally in Las Vegas, Nevada for example at the Bunny Ranch or whatever they call those elegant brothels make a lot of money. So they stick to it. Vice makes money under capitalism. There are always people who prefer that for fast money rather than go and mop floors for peanuts. That exists in many societies.

That professionals also do the same thing? That is true. But only to a certain extent. People who do not sell out or compromise their principles and additionally are very intelligent, disciplined, and responsible, and are good at academics and other ways of making a living do not have to do the prostitution thing. They also CHOOSE it.

Some people are brilliant in their chosen profession but never sell out. They are very few and far between in a capitalist value system that only rewards sellout behavior and making money over ethics and standards. But they exist. Those are the people I most value and associate with to this day. The working class or peasant background Latin Americans who worked very hard and got terminal degrees and did well in the university settings with free scholarships and due to excellence did not have to pay for their tuitions. And who then went out and did good work for the community. They turned down higher pay and so on in order to keep working for their socioeconomic class. That dedication to that value system over being a token or a sellout. Those are the people I most respect. That was my family. I saw the value of that when they died. No one who was an average self-serving sellout ever had what they got at the end. Tremendous respect and a lo lot of real caring from the community. It demonstrated the real value of living a good life based on sound principles. The haters, sellouts, and people who only know how to disrespect others and be selfish people? Are quickly forgotten and no one gives a damn about what happened in that person's life. No one thinks they did a thing of real difficulty. You have to live the life you choose with really hard-to-do principles. That way others witness how to do it and are influenced by your life. You influence no one by being selfish and also just being some lumpen or grifter. That is not a challenge or hard to do. Choose the path with the most resistance. It is the one with the most impact on changing the defects of the present system we live under Q.

But lumpens have choices, and so do the professionals. If they choose the path of least resistance and to make money they basically are no longer a threat to the system and are not attacked and often prosper from it. And they become part of the reason that change is so slow to come to many of the societies that rely on sellout behavior to remain unchanged.
#15318753
FiveofSwords wrote:Cultural Marxism is a bs term used to avoid saying culturally jewish.


Where is the evidence that you won the debate with Rei Murasame? Should we make an effort and see if she answers about what happened there? Or are you going to be a coward and run from it like you do from your claims of White Genocide happening in your Dixieland state?

Watch folks, how he will either ignore or do another smokescreen. Yet he demands respect. Bring on the evidence or accept it is bullshit. Be a person who does not lie. But you can not. :lol:

It is not hard to get in touch with her FiveofSwords. She always answered me. If you won that debate and stand behind your statements here? You should not worry about getting her to make an effort and remember who you are? If she says she never heard of you before and it is all a lie? You are going to be demolished as a pathological liar and nothing you say here will be valid. Do you understand that? Or did that go over your head? :D
#15318770
Tainari88 wrote: You do not respect that if it contradicts your bad analysis or thoughts. You can be a fascist, a Nazi a Hitler follower. But you had better have a good debate. That means you had better know the main texts and concepts and the meanings behind them of your opponents. The Germans like Hegel read a lot of philosophers and thinkers who were unlike him. From the past, the present in which he lived too. You have to. Otherwise, you can't build knowledge in a vacuum. It is about a continuum.

You fail in every way you write to demonstrate that you mastered basic texts. Not only on someone who is a Marxist Leninist like Potemkin. But who is very familiar with Fascist foundational philosophy like others such as Fasces? Fasces grew up in a Spanish Fascist family and his grandmother did indeed live and support fascist thought in Spain.

He is not a racist though. He never has been. You can like some aspects of fascism and not accept White Supremacy. Another brilliant Fascist that was here was @Rei_Murasame. She was a very active poster here a while ago. I think she won Poster of the Year. She was a half-Japanese, half-Anglo lesbian woman who was an analyst in some engineering field. She loved writing about politics. She was a lesbian too and believed in feminism. A Fascist feminist.

There are all kinds of people.

The good ones in here are about people who can really read a lot of interesting political science theories, social science theories and know not only their own political philosophies and histories well, but the ones who oppose them (their foes' political texts as well). It takes time and it takes dedication. It also takes curiosity and an innate interest in the concepts behind it all.

You fail to demonstrate that. In almost every way. You just fall into crutches all the time.

It demonstrates a lot. You learn a lot more from what a poster fails to explain well sometimes than what they actually wind up writing about.

I do not give a damn what you think FiveofSwords. It is all the same song.

It is your responsibility to put together a cogent argument with intelligence, and analysis and with logic and if you are a good writer. Art as well. You failed at all of it.

You fail to make sense. You sound like an ignorant about most things. History and everything else.

You have to be told what the material is about and why it is relevant to a point. You can't figure it out through what most educated people who worked on the concept already can deduce from it.

Then you say all of you are dumb...stupid, incapable, of reading comprehension, and WWIII, I think the White Genocide, White Race repetition thing happens again and again.

Do not flatter yourself. You are obviously not capable of understanding complexity. It is there in your writing over and over again.

You resort to bullshit no one believes. We all know who we are mostly. No one has remained in this forum for more than ten years...and Q is one of them. So is Rancid. They change emails and keep their original screennames, but they have a lot more posts than what their profiles say...etc.

Again it is hard to fool people who have been here for such a long time discussing. They already put in their time.

You remain not because you think us inferior, but because you are learning things you never knew...you are engaged and also you are mean-spirited and nasty in character. So you want cheap attention and also try to get over on people. You are not fooling anyone.

And frankly, you will never have the qualities of the best people in here. You were left without much development. You have to have a much better heart than the one you have to become better. ;)

Now you can either ignore this post. I do not give a damn if you do I wrote it for others anyway. Or you can go on with your predictable negativity. It is not a problem for me. You are the one that loses out anyway. The ones with bad hearts and closed minds always lose out. It is ultimately their issue not the problem of the rest of the people who write in here.

Go ahead and think about being happy over killing people and so on. Again, it does you a lot of damage over time. Just do not blame others for your victimhood. Be a good right-wing fascist and accept responsibility for your own limited thinking and capabilities. But you can't. It is all in your DNA....it is programmed for mediocrity. :lol:



As much as I disagree with them , in a number of respects , and might critique what I consider to be their false consciousness , in a number of areas . There have been a number of self described fascists , past and present on this forum , such as those you've mentioned , but also Saeko , who I think seemingly has morphed into more so a national bolshevik , whom I still respect as being well considered thinkers . But those who just regurgitate cliche talking points , rather than formulate their own points of view , are just so predictable and dull . There have even been a number of neo-fascists on YouTube , those who aren't so blatantly hateful as to get their channels deleted , as happened to Evalion , for instance , whom I find to be of some thought provoking interest , as they are basing their arguments on more than simply blind hatred , and ad hominem . For example , she made the point that @FiveofSwords set out to make in his previous thread here https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=184385 , only much better constructed and presented . Like I can , and will post it below , without worrying about it violating the terms of service here . There are a number of videos she made , those that aren't so blatantly derogatory as to be in violation of YouTube's terms of service , as well as interviews she's given to other YouTube channels , such as for instance " Soviet Russian Bear" , the same as with the example of the before mentioned Rei Murasame , among others . She has given both her own monologues , as well as dialogues with other political YouTube channels . We can still debate them in good faith discourse .


#15318779
Deutschmania wrote:As much as I disagree with them , in a number of respects , and might critique what I consider to be their false consciousness , in a number of areas . There have been a number of self described fascists , past and present on this forum , such as those you've mentioned , but also Saeko , who I think seemingly has morphed into more so a national bolshevik , whom I still respect as being well considered thinkers . But those who just regurgitate cliche talking points , rather than formulate their own points of view , are just so predictable and dull . There have even been a number of neo-fascists on YouTube , those who aren't so blatantly hateful as to get their channels deleted , as happened to Evalion , for instance , whom I find to be of some thought provoking interest , as they are basing their arguments on more than simply blind hatred , and ad hominem . For example , she made the point that @FiveofSwords set out to make in his previous thread here https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=184385 , only much better constructed and presented . Like I can , and will post it below , without worrying about it violating the terms of service here . There are a number of videos she made , those that aren't so blatantly derogatory as to be in violation of YouTube's terms of service , as well as interviews she's given to other YouTube channels , such as for instance " Soviet Russian Bear" , the same as with the example of the before mentioned Rei Murasame , among others . She has given both her own monologues , as well as dialogues with other political YouTube channels . We can still debate them in good faith discourse .




'National bolshevik' is a dumb and incoherent label that people use to just try to sound smart. It is literally just a cheap trick of subverting expectations while pretending this is serious politics.

National socialism is socialist and always has been...no it isn't just a wrong name like the holy roman empire. But it is also more complete and scientific than Marxism was and the way socialism is accomplished is far more intelligent and results oriented.

For one thing, natsocs understand that finance is the biggest culprit in the damage of capitalism. Making money from nothing...or making money because you have money...that is the real enemy of production and of fair treatment of workers. So what did Hitler target? Banks, stock exchange, mega farms, land speculators, etc. He showed greater tolerance for industry...because at least industry actually produces things. In fact, finance and industry thrive in opposite economies. Finance likes high interest rates and low prices for goods. Industry likes low interest rates and high prices for goods. Hitler made Germany into the later as much as feasible. Naturally the war was not ideal for his goals, and neither was the realpolitik around the fact he required the support of at least some of the junker class (which strasserites were too naive to understand was necessary).

Marxists ignored such issues because they never really gave a damn about the 'proletariat'...their ideology was tactical and their real goal was overthrowing monarchs...because monarchs were the biggest obstacle to jewish power. Therefore their main focus was on creating revolution. And the best people to market that too was factory workers...who did not like their working conditions (because they were indeed terrible). Thus they pretended reforming factories was the way to fight capitalism...not finance which is less visible in its harm

Anyways...pretending like 'National bolshevik' is like nazis but socialist or dumb talk about 'beefsteak nazis' is all just low info crap that I have heard a lot...and always comes from people who are too lazy to read books and prefer youtube midwittery.

I could certainly delve into these subjects and educate an intelligent and genuinely curious person on these details, but nobody here is intelligent or curious. Literally this forum is not even midwit lol...literally dumber than the average midwit.
#15318795
ingliz wrote:@FiveofSwords

You've had 58 pages to delve and all you've done is post page after page of barely coherent contradictory shite.


:lol:


He has total fabrications and distorted crap because the truth is he is uninformed. I have a book in my hand right now that is academic that traces the relationship between Hegel and Marx with pages and specifics. All that he states is total crap.

He is into misinformation. His first claim of white genocide is a lie. No one is killing neo nazis.

If he finds this forum beneath him he needs to leave. He won't. It is also a lie. He is here for misinformation and crap.

Again, I can get Rei Murasame to answer a quick question or two. Lol. About him. Fasces delved into his background.

He is a very insecure person in general. And @ingliz he indeed had 58 pages to delve into something of substance. He could not even answer @Potemkin or anyone else. He is in an echo chamber and apparently has been bounced from a lot of fora. That does not surprise me.

See how he avoids the Rei thing I posed and won't address it? He is lying.

Lol. He needs to get a thread and post it with him and her fighting it out. If he can't? Trash is what he writes and talks. That is the truth of it.

https://x.com/reimurasame?lang=en

Go ahead @FiveofSwords post the debate thread link. We will have access to read it and see if it is true and if what you say is true.

If you fail to do so? Your claim is false. Why should anyone believe your analytics in here? You are a person who is here for false propaganda and that is all. Be honest. It is not hard.

There she is. Her channel. I can join. She will recognize me because I can join and use the same handle and send her a link. See if what you are talking about is a lie or the truth eh? It is not hard.
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