Teacher questions appropriateness of pow-wow - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15319157
Unthinking Majority wrote:LOL. That's like saying indigenous people who use modern refrigerators are stealing western ideas.


No.

Brits stole the Cort process from Jamaican slaves, which was a way of making iron stronger and brought about the industrial revolution. There would have been no industrial revolution without stealing ideas from slaves.

Link

Who banned slavery before western Europe over moral outrage?


Many people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... nd_serfdom

What specific western countries are supporting a genocide by Israel and how? Helping a state avoid genocidal annihilation from aggressive neighbours is different than supporting a genocide. What states are supporting Hamas in their genocidal actions against Israelis? Like the Oct 7 attack and its victims that you said you didn't care about.


The USA, UK, Canada, Germany, and other countries are supplying weapons used in the genocide as well as arresting people who are protesting the genocide.

And it is the average Canadian who is ignoring the genocide in their own backyard. This is why it is problematic and disheartening when teachers do not even know what a powwow is. Obviously, a large portion of Canadians are unwilling to learn about the cultures whose land they live on, and this is part of the reason why there is an ongoing genocide.

Unthinking Majority wrote:FiveofSwords doesn't speak for all Europeans/caucasians or the western world.


He has made some of the same arguments you have.
#15319165
Pants-of-dog wrote:No.

Brits stole the Cort process from Jamaican slaves, which was a way of making iron stronger and brought about the industrial revolution. There would have been no industrial revolution without stealing ideas from slaves.

Link



Many people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... nd_serfdom



The USA, UK, Canada, Germany, and other countries are supplying weapons used in the genocide as well as arresting people who are protesting the genocide.

And it is the average Canadian who is ignoring the genocide in their own backyard. This is why it is problematic and disheartening when teachers do not even know what a powwow is. Obviously, a large portion of Canadians are unwilling to learn about the cultures whose land they live on, and this is part of the reason why there is an ongoing genocide.



He has made some of the same arguments you have.


I just have the 'ideology that is required for a people to actually survive. You apparently think survival is unethical and that's fine. I don't need to 'win' anything against people like you I can just wait for nature to do her thing.
#15319179
Pants-of-dog wrote:No.

Brits stole the Cort process from Jamaican slaves, which was a way of making iron stronger and brought about the industrial revolution. There would have been no industrial revolution without stealing ideas from slaves.

And the Aztecs stole lots of things from the neighbours they invaded. The Chinese steal a ton of IP from western companies. The only thing that forces people to not steal things or generally do bad things to each other is the law, which is why people should generally follow the law.

The USA, UK, Canada, Germany, and other countries are supplying weapons used in the genocide as well as arresting people who are protesting the genocide.

People breaking the law during a protest and won't stop should be arrested. Those countries supply weapons for defense so that Israelis aren't genocided, and they don't support any alleged genocide. In fact the US has tried to broker a 2-state solution for the Palestinians, whose leadership has no interest in.

This is why it is problematic and disheartening when teachers do not even know what a powwow is.

Some individuals are ignorant yes, including this one teacher.

He has made some of the same arguments you have.

About what? He and you are both hateful racists, you just disagree on which races are superior vs inferior.
#15319180
Unthinking Majority wrote:And the Aztecs stole lots of things from the neighbours they invaded. The Chinese steal a ton of IP from western companies. The only thing that forces people to not steal things or generally do bad things to each other is the law, which is why people should generally follow the law.


People breaking the law during a protest and won't stop should be arrested. Those countries supply weapons for defense so that Israelis aren't genocided, and they don't support any alleged genocide. In fact the US has tried to broker a 2-state solution for the Palestinians, whose leadership has no interest in.


Some individuals are ignorant yes, including this one teacher.


About what? He and you are both hateful racists, you just disagree on which races are superior vs inferior.

I don't think any race is superior
#15319191
Unthinking Majority wrote:And the Aztecs stole lots of things from the neighbours they invaded. The Chinese steal a ton of IP from western companies. The only thing that forces people to not steal things or generally do bad things to each other is the law, which is why people should generally follow the law.


So you agree that slavery was used to steal technology from non-Europeans and that this then provided a significant benefit and helped with the technological advance and advantage of the British Empire.

People breaking the law during a protest and won't stop should be arrested. Those countries supply weapons for defense so that Israelis aren't genocided, and they don't support any alleged genocide. In fact the US has tried to broker a 2-state solution for the Palestinians, whose leadership has no interest in.


You are merely supplying the justifications used for western support of genocide and censorship of protesters. This is an implicit agreement with the claim that these western countries are supporting Israel while the IDF abd Israeli government bomb women and children daily.

Some individuals are ignorant yes, including this one teacher.


The majority of Canadians are ignorant to a problematic degree.

About what? He and you are both hateful racists, you just disagree on which races are superior vs inferior.


You both made the “the UK abolished slavery first” argument.

More importantly, both of you seem to justify European colonialism.
#15319210
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you agree that slavery was used to steal technology from non-Europeans and that this then provided a significant benefit and helped with the technological advance and advantage of the British Empire.

No. If these claims are correct, slaves used western tech, facilities, and knowledge in Jamaica for iron working and apparently discovered a new iron working technique, which Henry Cort then patented in the UK and others used. Yes it seems it was a great benefit to the UK and probably the entire world eventually.

"Stole" is subjective based on how laws work etc especially with knowledge rather than property, but if you want to say he stole it ok sure. As my original argument stated, indigenous peoples of NA/SA were at a geographic disadvantage being isolated in from Eurasia and Africa and thus were unable to "steal" or trade knowledge and technology from them for their benefit unlike the other societies. They were limited to "stealing" and trading from each other.

You are merely supplying the justifications used for western support of genocide and censorship of protesters.

No i'm anti-genocide and generally anti-censorship. You are supplying the justifications for people to do whatever they want without accountability under the cover of "protesting". Society doesn't work that way and you'll continue to complain about entitled protestors breaking laws and then you and they claiming victimhood when they're held accountable by the law and university policy.

This is an implicit agreement with the claim that these western countries are supporting Israel while the IDF abd Israeli government bomb women and children daily.

Well it's a war, so unfortunately there will be some collateral damage like all wars. The question is whether the IDF has been purposefully targeting innocent civilians like Hamas does.

You thrive on victimhood narratives and seem to blame all problems that Palestinians have on Israel and colonialism and all problems indigenous peoples have on European colonialism when the facts simply don't support that in all cases. Obviously some problems are caused by these things, just not all.

The majority of Canadians are ignorant to a problematic degree.

Many Canadian governments, especially the left-leaning ones who are self-hating, don't teach a lot of Canadian history or culture in schools or otherwise, and thus Canadians are ignorant about a lot of these things.

You both made the “the UK abolished slavery first” argument.

I never said that. Even if I had, who cares?

More importantly, both of you seem to justify European colonialism.

European colonialism was morally justified in some regards, and not justified in others. Unnecessary cruelty is obviously never justified. The main problem that fed the desire for colonialism (and all war between countries) was the fact that European and all other countries/societies existed in a state of nature where all them were competing over limited resources and no government to enforce any international law/rules to maintain order and punish "cheaters". This meant one country becoming more powerful via colonialism was an existential threat to all other countries, who then felt a need to also engage in colonialism just to maintain their own security, at the great expense of the societies being colonized.

The only way colonialism could have been prevented is if every society in the world agreed to a rule not to engage in it and there was a mechanism in place that could always successfully enforce this rule. Since European countries were unable to maintain peace 500 years ago, and countries worldwide can't even get the UN Security Council or WTO to function without rule-cheating, colonialism was essentially inevitable in some significant form.
#15319211
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you agree that slavery was used to steal technology from non-Europeans and that this then provided a significant benefit and helped with the technological advance and advantage of the British Empire.



You are merely supplying the justifications used for western support of genocide and censorship of protesters. This is an implicit agreement with the claim that these western countries are supporting Israel while the IDF abd Israeli government bomb women and children daily.



The majority of Canadians are ignorant to a problematic degree.



You both made the “the UK abolished slavery first” argument.

More importantly, both of you seem to justify European colonialism.

Image

Slavery is still quite common. Something you might notice about this map is that it certainly looks like the British empire abolished slavery.

Non whites had no technology. Lol. What a laughable comment. How do you explain how Europe managed to colonize the world, then? Does being mean and racist make you invincible in war? Weird concession if so.
#15319216
Unthinking Majority wrote:No. If these claims are correct, slaves used western tech, facilities, and knowledge in Jamaica for iron working and apparently discovered a new iron working technique, which Henry Cort then patented in the UK and others used. Yes it seems it was a great benefit to the UK and probably the entire world eventually.

"Stole" is subjective based on how laws work etc especially with knowledge rather than property, but if you want to say he stole it ok sure. As my original argument stated, indigenous peoples of NA/SA were at a geographic disadvantage being isolated in from Eurasia and Africa and thus were unable to "steal" or trade knowledge and technology from them for their benefit unlike the other societies. They were limited to "stealing" and trading from each other.


Can you show that Cort paid for this knowledge or that the deal was done with the consent of the inventors?

No i'm anti-genocide and generally anti-censorship. You are supplying the justifications for people to do whatever they want without accountability under the cover of "protesting". Society doesn't work that way and you'll continue to complain about entitled protestors breaking laws and then you and they claiming victimhood when they're held accountable by the law and university policy.


You support the current genocide and censorship. You simply justify it with the same reasons the western governments.

And more importantly and on topic: western governments do so as well.

Well it's a war, so unfortunately there will be some collateral damage like all wars. The question is whether the IDF has been purposefully targeting innocent civilians like Hamas does.

You thrive on victimhood narratives and seem to blame all problems that Palestinians have on Israel and colonialism and all problems indigenous peoples have on European colonialism when the facts simply don't support that in all cases. Obviously some problems are caused by these things, just not all.


I have already provided you with evidence that the IDF is deliberately targeting civilians.

Many Canadian governments, especially the left-leaning ones who are self-hating, don't teach a lot of Canadian history or culture in schools or otherwise, and thus Canadians are ignorant about a lot of these things.


No, this seems implausible. For example, I provided evidence of Canadian genocide against its Indigenous people years ago, and it was not the left leaning people who refused to believe it was true,

I never said that. Even if I had, who cares?


It goes to show how closely the Canadian public is to neo-Nazi viewpoints when it comes to Indigenous people.

European colonialism was morally justified in some regards, and not justified in others. Unnecessary cruelty is obviously never justified. The main problem that fed the desire for colonialism (and all war between countries) was the fact that European and all other countries/societies existed in a state of nature where all them were competing over limited resources and no government to enforce any international law/rules to maintain order and punish "cheaters". This meant one country becoming more powerful via colonialism was an existential threat to all other countries, who then felt a need to also engage in colonialism just to maintain their own security, at the great expense of the societies being colonized.

The only way colonialism could have been prevented is if every society in the world agreed to a rule not to engage in it and there was a mechanism in place that could always successfully enforce this rule. Since European countries were unable to maintain peace 500 years ago, and countries worldwide can't even get the UN Security Council or WTO to function without rule-cheating, colonialism was essentially inevitable in some significant form.


This is still happening as we speak. In Canada snd Israel, for example.
#15319235
Pants-of-dog wrote:Can you show that Cort paid for this knowledge or that the deal was done with the consent of the inventors?

They were his slaves LOL.

I have already provided you with evidence that the IDF is deliberately targeting civilians.

I said "innocent civilians". Civilians who help Hamas or join Hamas in their genocide under the guise of charity work aren't innocent. It's always a shame when innocents die in collateral damage, but that's on the people helping/joining Hamas, they made the choice to assist Hamas and put the lives of their families in jeopardy.

No, this seems implausible. For example, I provided evidence of Canadian genocide against its Indigenous people years ago, and it was not the left leaning people who refused to believe it was true

None of them know hardly anything about Canada's history.

It goes to show how closely the Canadian public is to neo-Nazi viewpoints when it comes to Indigenous people.

:lol: Saying that Europeans were the first to permanently ban slavery is "neo-Nazi"? FiveSwords could very well be a neo-nazi, that has nothing to do with me, and your lame attempt to try to link me to him and his beliefs are more bad faith manipulative lies on your part. That's because you're an untrustworthy and manipulative weasel and prove it over and over again, it never stops. Further, if you find the Canadian public so neo-Nazi you're free to move out of the country and cease colonially occupying indigenous Canadian land.

And it's ironic because you're obviously the one who has a great resentment and dislike towards people of certain races and uses the actions of these races as a scapegoat for literally all of the problems of your own race including making up lies & fantasies. Me defending my own ethnicity against your racist neo-Nazi lies is me just doing a free public service. Plus you already admitted you just "don't care" about the genocide of innocent Jews on Oct 7 and have never condemned those attacks. That sounds pretty darn neo-Nazi to me.

You support the current genocide and censorship. You simply justify it with the same reasons the western governments.

Do not slander me with your blatant lies. I've said numerous times that I support everyone following the law, including international law re: any of Israel's alleged war crimes, and anyone breaking the law including Israel and protestors should be held accountable. But you don't care, you just believe in the lies (and laws) that you want. Since you're incapable of debating in good faith this conversation is over.
#15319251
Unthinking Majority wrote:They were his slaves LOL.


So Cort stole technology develooed by his non-European slaves and for centuries, everyone believed that white people invented it and provided their own technological advantage.

I said "innocent civilians". Civilians who help Hamas or join Hamas in their genocide under the guise of charity work aren't innocent. It's always a shame when innocents die in collateral damage, but that's on the people helping/joining Hamas, they made the choice to assist Hamas and put the lives of their families in jeopardy.


And again, the women and children deliberately targeted in the homes of UNRWA workers are not Hamas militants.

So again, the IDF is deliberately bombing innocent civilians.

And western governments are supplying weapons for this deliberate killing if civilians.

And western citizens are parroting the justifications for these killings, so no, the claim that western societies are more morally developed is incorrect.

None of them know hardly anything about Canada's history.


If by “them”, you mean the unthinking majority of Canadians, then I agree,

:lol: Saying that Europeans were the first to permanently ban slavery is "neo-Nazi"? FiveSwords could very well be a neo-nazi, that has nothing to do with me, and your lame attempt to try to link me to him and his beliefs are more bad faith manipulative lies on your part. That's because you're an untrustworthy and manipulative weasel and prove it over and over again, it never stops. Further, if you find the Canadian public so neo-Nazi you're free to move out of the country and cease colonially occupying indigenous Canadian land.


Saying that Europeans were the first to permanently ban slavery is not neo-Nazi.

That does not change the fact 5hat you and a neo-Nazi both made that (incorrect) argument.

And it's ironic because you're obviously the one who has a great resentment and dislike towards people of certain races and uses the actions of these races as a scapegoat for literally all of the problems of your own race including making up lies & fantasies. Me defending my own ethnicity against your racist neo-Nazi lies is me just doing a free public service. Plus you already admitted you just "don't care" about the genocide of innocent Jews on Oct 7 and have never condemned those attacks. That sounds pretty darn neo-Nazi to me.


This is al, personal attacks and can be ignored,

Do not slander me with your blatant lies. I've said numerous times that I support everyone following the law, including international law re: any of Israel's alleged war crimes, and anyone breaking the law including Israel and protestors should be held accountable. But you don't care, you just believe in the lies (and laws) that you want. Since you're incapable of debating in good faith this conversation is over.


Then this would be a good opportunity for you to openly condemn the ongoing genocides in Palestine and Canada, as well as condemn the attacks in the protesters.
#15319256
So in the one hand, we have mainstream centrists agreeing with neo-Nazis about how colonialism based genocide is acceptable.

And on the other hand, we have radicals decrying a genocide and a few neo-Nazis opportunistically criticizing Israel for the same reason.
#15319259
If neo-Nazis happen to be opposing genocide for once, good for them.

This does not change the fact that when it comes to Canada’# relationship with the Indigenous people living in Canada, the mainstream position is the same as many neo-Nazis.
#15319263
If that is the logic, then mainstream supporters of Israel and Canada are supporting the same genocide as neo-Nazis.

This seems more problematic than having neo-Nazis agree that a genocide needs to be stopped.

I will definitely concede the latter if we all agree that the former statement is true.
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