Palestinian prisoners describe systemic abuse in Israel’s jails - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Pants-of-dog wrote:The very first paragraph in the article states:

Can you tell me where it says this is an issue with the laws themselves? It may be an issue with oversight and enforcement, we don't know.

Someone stating it is "systemic" and "institutional" is not much of an argument, these are vague labels. We have to define "systemic" and "institutional" here. If they mean that the abuses are allowed to happen across the jail system then sure. But this doesn't mean there's an issue with the laws on the books necessarily. It may be, we don't know.

What we do know is that when something as emotionally charged as terrorism of innocent people happens, like Oct 7 and 9/11, people from the targeted group who are in charge of prisoners (and also soldiers) can be so angry and resentful of those who did it that they will abuse the suspected offenders (or even innocent people from that same ethnic group) and violate their human rights, just like happened at Abu Ghraib. Prison guards and soldiers need to be better than this, and Jews in particular need to avoid stooping to the hatred and racism of the Nazis who did the same the them.
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Unthinking Majority wrote:Can you tell me where it says this is an issue with the laws themselves? It may be an issue with oversight and enforcement, we don't know.


Then it is an issue with how the laws are enforced and whether or not the laws actually create oversight, which are both systemic issues based on the law of the land.

Someone stating it is "systemic" and "institutional" is not much of an argument, these are vague labels. We have to define "systemic" and "institutional" here. If they mean that the abuses are allowed to happen across the jail system then sure. But this doesn't mean there's an issue with the laws on the books necessarily. It may be, we don't know.


The definition of institutional or systemic problems is quite clear. In this case, it means that the torture of Palestinian prisoners is not due to the actions of a few rogue actors behaving incorrectly, but instead is a widespread problem that is allowed to continue because the laws, their enforcement, and their interpretation have come together to create this situation.

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