[Pants-of-dog]

Please define “settler colonialism”, with a specific focus on the economics and how said economics differ from exploitation colonialism and other forms of colonialism.

[wat0n]

We already went through this.

And you could not explain why the term doesn't apply to the spread of Islam

[Pants-of-dog]

The last time this discussion happened, the only person who could show that they knew what settler colonialism is was me.

There was no indication that anyone else understood the term, and no evidence at all that settler colonialism happened in the region prior to Zionism.

This is because settler colonialism was incorrectly used as a synonym for imperialism.

Until the person arguing that settler colonialism existed can show they understand what they are claiming, this argument is useless.

[wat0n]

Nice cop out, since you couldn't explain why the expansion of Islam was not settler colonialism you just redefined the term in a rather vague way nobody uses, and even then you were unable to explain why the expansion of Islam was not settler colonialism.

[Pants-of-dog]

The definition previously quoted by me was from the Wikipedia article. It is highly unlikely that the definition of settler colonialism used in the article was vague or is used only by me.

If the argument is that the expansion of Islam into what is now Palestine was an example of settler colonialism, then historical facts should be cited and used to show how the expansion fits the definition. This was never done.

More importantly, any settler colonialism structure enacted by Muslims in 636 CE or so is no longer important in any way to the current genocide. This point has been brought up repeatedly and never addressed.

[wat0n]

Islamic expansion in the Levant and beyond certainly was settler colonialism, so was the expansion of Christianity in the Americas (and both were done using very similar policies).

I will also note such examples were provided at the time.

Lastly, there's no genocide and under your own framework the reason why Hamas exists is to try to revive settler colonialist system imposed on Levantine Jews in today's Israel (which is, under this silly framework, just land-back).

[Pants-of-dog]

Claiming the argument was already addressed is just a way to dodge the argument.

So, there is no evidence showing that @wat0n understands what settler colonialism is.

there is no evidence that settler colonialism occurred in the region prior to Zionism.

And finally and most importantly, there is no evidence that any settler colonialism (other than Zionism) is relevant to the ongoing war and genocide.

[wat0n]

No @Pants-of-dog, pointing out your nonsense was already addressed is a way to save time. I can point to the thread if you want.

I will note that we also went through the specifics of Jizya and Dhimmi status more generally and how it was used to get locals to convert to Islam, learn Arabic and essentially Arabize. This was also done elsewhere, including Spain.

I also pointed out Islamists like Hamas simply want to restore that system, so it matters if we go by your nonsense.

You're just mad you can't substantiate your arguments, so you just lie about what settler colonialism means to most people.

[Pants-of-dog]

Boasting about an argument that was supposedly already made is not as good as providing said argument.

Forced conversion through taxation is not necessarily an example of settler colonialism. So showing this happened in the past does not provide evidence or support for the claim that settler colonialism happened. And likewise, even if we accept the unsupported assumption that Hamas wants to do the same, it is not an argument that Hamas is trying to replicate settler colonialism.

[wat0n]

And now here's @Pants-of-dog lying about settler colonialism again and pretending forced conversion isn't just another form of forced assimilation.

And yes, he's in fact lying about it because when Europeans forcibly converted indigenous children to Christianity as part of the residential schools' assimilation program he would not hesitate to label this a form of settler colonialism.

[Pants-of-dog]

Forced conversion can be a form of forced assimilation. It can also not be one.

Forced conversion can also be a for of settler colonialism. It can also not be one.

If the assumption is that all forced conversion are forced assimilation are settler colonialism, then the three terms are being confused. They are not synonymous.

[wat0n]

Right, when Europeans forcibly convert native Americans to Christianity and make them to adopt their customs and language = settler colonialism

When Arabs forcibly convert non-Arabs to Islam and make them to adopt their customs and language = not settler colonialism

Why? Because @Pants-of-dog says so, duh.

[Pants-of-dog]

I never said that Islamic expansion into Palestine was not settler colonialism. It nay have been. It may also not have been. The only claim I have ever read that it was settler colonialism was by a Zionist in this thread. Since there is no evidence for such a claim, it is not my duty to assume it is true.

More interesting is the fact that no one has disputed that Zionism is an example of settler colonialism, nor has anyone disputed that the genocidal logic of settler colonialism is the driving cause of violence against Palestinians today.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog more dishonesty on your end, I see.

I will note that if Palestinian identity is itself a product of settler colonialism, then ideologies like Zionism, Phoenicianism and Assyrian nationalism are just land-back movements. And if land-back movements are settler colonialism, then its advocates are settler colonialists.

Implying, then, that the term "settler colonialism" is useless and even more so to understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[QatzelOk]

Right, when Europeans forcibly convert native Americans to Christianity and make them to adopt their customs and language = settler colonialism...

Even worse than this was when Europeans killed off millions of First Nations and then replaced them with Christian white trash from the bottom of European societies.

Reducing their numbers... was always the magical formula for an eventual conversion. The Settlers are more than willing to carry out "the final steps" in this process by burning crosses, sending vigilates to terrorize the natives, etc.

[wat0n]

The expansion of Islam also featured massacres and terror, there's nothing new there @QatzelOk.

[Pants-of-dog]

Is Zionism an example of settler colonialism?

Yes or no?

[wat0n]

No, it's not.

I will note that if Palestinian identity is the result of settler colonialism, it's not hard to understand that Zionism is a land-back movement.

But even if it isn't, Zionism is just the self-determination of the Jewish people. That is not settler colonialism per se (even if some Zionists may support settler colonialism).

[Pants-of-dog]

How is Zionism not an example of settler colonialism?

[wat0n]

It would be consistent with Jewish self-determination to purchase a depopulated piece of land a establish a state there.

I also don't see how it's settler colonialism to support the two state solution, which is by definition compatible with Jewish self-determination.

In the meantime, I am still waiting for @Pants-of-dog to explain how the expansion of Islam wasn't and isn't settler colonialism.