[Rancid]

At this point, we should just not have elections at all.

@Verv is getting ready for propagating election lies when Trump loses. if trump wins, they will also magically be secure and without doubt.

Willing to be so destructive for dear leader.

Funny how Trump "doesn't mean" all the stuff he say's, but on election denial, you accept that. It's like the ultimate cherry picking.

[Fasces]

Hearing Fox and other conservative commentators talk about how 'suburban Pennsylvanians are' has been a testament to how reductive their thinking is.

[Verv]

At this point, we should just not have elections at all.

@Verv is getting ready for propagating election lies when Trump loses. if trump wins, they will also magically be secure and without doubt.

Willing to be so destructive for dear leader.

Funny how Trump "doesn't mean" all the stuff he say's, but on election denial, you accept that. It's like the ultimate cherry picking.

It's hard to respond to this... Because let's say I actually were to disagree by saying that I am sincerely open to the idea that, even without any major incident, it was a clean election and Trump lost fair and square - I just did not correctly assess the attitudes of Americans. I would not be celebrated for conceding it is possible that he could lose fair and square, but I would be viewed as just posturing as an objective person so I would cynically try to gain more credibility for when I deny the results if he loses...

And let's say I do not make such a statement: then the argument stands that I was dead set on not accepting any kind of election result but a Trump victory, but I also gain the benefit of being a crystal ball bro who called the steal so far out, maaaan, and could be seen as a hyper-cynical Trumpist that basks in playing the victim.

There's nothing that I can say that would not be seen as just part of some self-serving tactic.



So, I'm in something of a pickle.

[Rancid]

So, I'm in something of a pickle.

Indeed. You are between two all beef patties, lettuces, onions, the pickle, in between a sesame seed bun.

WRT to electronic voting:
- Those machines produce paper ballots for verification/backup (have you guys never voted?)
- These machines are audited consistently against the paper ballots.
- Even in the all the bad faith recounts Trump initiated, the paper ballots matched the digital vote tally.

You are sowing disinformation at the behest of the orange fascist. Cut it out.

[Unthinking Majority]

Nevertheless, the plan is make false claims of fraud to tie up certification of votes in Georgia and elsewhere to throw the election into the courts and possibly get it up to the Trump Supreme Court. I don’t think it will work, but they are better prepared this time. It’s going to be awful, if Trump loses and, of course, even worse if he wins. I want it to be over already!

Yup. Here we go again...

[Unthinking Majority]

At this point, we should just not have elections at all.

@Verv is getting ready for propagating election lies when Trump loses. if trump wins, they will also magically be secure and without doubt.

Willing to be so destructive for dear leader.

Funny how Trump "doesn't mean" all the stuff he say's, but on election denial, you accept that. It's like the ultimate cherry picking.

All Trump needed to do was sow doubt. He created a conspiracy theory that seemed plausible could have happened and the rest took care of itself among his supporters who naturally are the types to not trust government (sometimes for very good reason).

Thankfully the courts don't work based on hunches, they work based on evidence. I get why Trump would legit be paranoid given so many were legit out to get the guy for 4 years unlike anything we've ever seen, but he still has to bring the evidence. The guy is a con man piece of shit

[wat0n]

Well, this is the only case of election fraud I've heard about in the US. It was bad enough that it forced a repeat of the election.

Wanna guess what party were these guys working for?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... -rcna49534

[Rancid]

Well, this is the only case of election fraud I've heard about in the US. It was bad enough that it forced a repeat of the election.

Wanna guess what party were these guys working for?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... -rcna49534

Indeed, every accusation is an admission of what they want to do.

The election fraud will come from MAGA world. It already has! Fake electors...

[JohnRawls]

I have not doubt electronic voting can be designed in a secure and transparent way. Problem is, it still takes an IT expert to understand it. Traditional voting methods are easy enough to understand for everybody (not that the average person actually does understand them in detail, but it's first and foremost about perception).

We have it in Estonia. And there perhaps was only 1 far right clown that tried to whine about it in the previous election kinda like Trump but he was laughed at and quickly stopped understanding it is not a very popular opinion here when its literally with 0 evidence.

Considered it is audited after every election (the results and system) after every election by independent auditors + government + international bodies. The code is publicly available and literally anyone can check how the system is built and works on top of the result being immutable once you cast your vote.

I am not sure what more security you need? You can see who voted, you can't vote without ID card or residency(local elections) online, all is observable by the auditors, you can check after the vote if your vote is there in your app and who has it, auditors don't see who has your vote... etc etc. Once the vote is cast it physically can't be changed, think of it as blockchain, if its there then it can't be changed.

The only real way to "cheat" this kind of system is to throw in votes by some magical ID Cards that are for dead people or something. They need to have an ID in the system and profile so to speak. Without those fakes, you can't really cheat since the auditors check alive people voted and so on. Basically some sort of issued "fake Id cards" that would be legit like real profiles on the end of the government and realistically you need a lot of them then, such large increase in numbers and issuing will not be unnoticed by many from auditors to government itself to people who actually issue them.

Technically the only real problem you can cause to the system is DDOS of some sort which is manageable since it happens basically every election for us and non-issue since forever. We kinda expect Russia to do it and there has been no problems at all with this since like 2009 if I remember correctly or what year that was.

[SpecialOlympian]

We need to talk more about the integrity of the vote and not the guy we know who will reject it even if he wins for undercounting his historical landslide victory.

[wat0n]

Well, that NC example does show some integrity reform could be useful...

...To defend the electoral process from GOP operatives who may want to do something illegal.

[SpecialOlympian]

One of my favorite tidbits from when Giuliani was shitting himself in court and leading the legal fight against the 2020 election was how, in one case, they wanted to call in Ron Watkins to testify as an expert witness on the integrity of the voting machines. Ron is the creepy son of the guy who owns 4chan and most definitely one of the people behind Q at some point.

Court: "What makes Mr. Watkins an expert on these voting machines?"

Trump Lawyers: "He read the manual for the machines."

Court: "Then why should we bring him in instead of submitting the manual as evidence? We can read the manual if it's relevant."

Just bringing in 4chan moderators as expert witnesses because some groyper intern on your staff was given the court paperwork to fill out.

[wat0n]

Well, it seems the DOJ is going after alleged Russian propaganda networks associated with some unnamed US political party.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice- ... -influence
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-rt-e ... -thousands

[Hakeer]

Well, it seems the DOJ is going after alleged Russian propaganda networks associated with some unnamed US political party.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice- ... -influence
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-rt-e ... -thousands

They shut down 32. Tomorrow 32 more will pop up. People just need to be wary of what they read and see on the internet. Stick to known and reliable news sources. Crap posted on social media is especially suspect. I quit all of it years ago.

[Verv]

Indeed. You are between two all beef patties, lettuces, onions, the pickle, in between a sesame seed bun.

WRT to electronic voting:
- Those machines produce paper ballots for verification/backup (have you guys never voted?)
- These machines are audited consistently against the paper ballots.
- Even in the all the bad faith recounts Trump initiated, the paper ballots matched the digital vote tally.

You are sowing disinformation at the behest of the orange fascist. Cut it out.

There's no disinformation - it's a criticism of the broken election system that does not depend on voter IDs, nor does it even require a valid home address from voters (more or less). There actually is very little accountability for ballots.

This problem should have been taken care of decades ago, and for decades there have been debates about it.

[Rugoz]

We have it in Estonia. And there perhaps was only 1 far right clown that tried to whine about it in the previous election kinda like Trump but he was laughed at and quickly stopped understanding it is not a very popular opinion here when its literally with 0 evidence.

Considered it is audited after every election (the results and system) after every election by independent auditors + government + international bodies. The code is publicly available and literally anyone can check how the system is built and works on top of the result being immutable once you cast your vote.

I am not sure what more security you need? You can see who voted, you can't vote without ID card or residency(local elections) online, all is observable by the auditors, you can check after the vote if your vote is there in your app and who has it, auditors don't see who has your vote... etc etc. Once the vote is cast it physically can't be changed, think of it as blockchain, if its there then it can't be changed.

The only real way to "cheat" this kind of system is to throw in votes by some magical ID Cards that are for dead people or something. They need to have an ID in the system and profile so to speak. Without those fakes, you can't really cheat since the auditors check alive people voted and so on. Basically some sort of issued "fake Id cards" that would be legit like real profiles on the end of the government and realistically you need a lot of them then, such large increase in numbers and issuing will not be unnoticed by many from auditors to government itself to people who actually issue them.

Technically the only real problem you can cause to the system is DDOS of some sort which is manageable since it happens basically every election for us and non-issue since forever. We kinda expect Russia to do it and there has been no problems at all with this since like 2009 if I remember correctly or what year that was.

Have you checked app code, API code, deployment process, database configuration, hosting infrastructure and know what makes these systems secure or not?

[Rancid]

There's no disinformation - it's a criticism of the broken election system that does not depend on voter IDs, nor does it even require a valid home address from voters (more or less). There actually is very little accountability for ballots.

This problem should have been taken care of decades ago, and for decades there have been debates about it.

So now you shift to voter IDs. So it's not the machines now?

Which states do you think would have been flipped for Trump if it wasn't for voter IDs?

BTW, I'm all good with voter ID laws (most states have them). That's not a good enough reason to support Trump and fascism though.

[SpecialOlympian]

“The voting system is broken because it doesn’t give me the results I want and we have to fix it now to satisfy me and the candidate who will reject the results no matter what.

I watched part of 2000 Mules. I plan to finish it, it’s a pretty powerful and convincing film.”

Verv you fucking idiot you can’t register to vote in any district in any state without a state issued ID. Your evidence that this is an issue is that morons like you won’t shut up about it because you’re either woefully uninformed or arguing in bad faith. It's the rhetorical equivalent of arguing with the ref on every call, no matter insignificant or correct, in the hopes that eventually they'll get fed up with your shit and give you something eventually just to keep the game going.

So now you shift to voter IDs. So it's not the machines now?

He’s not even arguing that. He’s just flatly claiming that, for too long, states have done nothing to even identify their own residents, much less who is eligible to vote. Despite just crowing about Texas purging a million registered voters from its rolls (which, why even have voter rolls since they apparently serve no purpose?). It’s stupid as fuck and not logically coherent in any way, self referential in the existence of said statement being evidence of a problem because Verv is pretending he's too stupid to understand how the electoral systems works at any level.

People have debated Creationism for decades too, so fucking what? Just because idiots debate it that doesn't mean the school system is broken for not teaching it.

To put it another way, Verv has the same self-serving and incoherent logic of the GOP and Trump saying:

"Biden stole the election, but he's the rightful thief of the presidency who was couped by Kamala and he should be reinstated as the nominee."

[JohnRawls]

Have you checked app code, API code, deployment process, database configuration, hosting infrastructure and know what makes these systems secure or not?

Yeah I actually do that for a living but not for the voting systems etc. I work in the healthcare field.

They use relatively the same configurations, deployment and infrastructure as I do.

[Rancid]

@Verv,

Trump will fix it up so that you never have to worry about voting again. Listen to his words. He is telling you to your face who a fucking is.

Yet, you flag waive, tout the constitution, etc. while this fascist mother fucker tells you he will take it all away from you.

The fuck is wrong with you?