[wat0n]

If that was true, then the battle to retake Mosul from ISIS would also be seen as a genocide. It also featured attacks in water, food production, hospitals, schools, sewage systems, homes, families, journalists and aid workers. Not sure about what negotiators you're referring to, but whatever, nobody claims the battle to defeat ISIS in Mosul was genocide.

[Rich]

Why doesn't Hamas fortify its positions and fight in open areas instead of doing so inside Gaza's cities or within designated safe zones?

Oh please!

I remember when the Ukrainians chose to fight in Mariupol, I thought, um now the Russians are in trouble. That decision cost the Russians any chance of a decisive victory in any reasonable time frame. The Ukrainian leadership would rather see their cities destroyed and than fall intact into Russian hands. I don't remember you criticising the Ukrainians for this. I certainly don't remember any of the Liberals criticising them for it. Now the Ukrainians have tried to evacuate non essential civilians from their cities that have become part of the front line, but really this is hardly an option for Hamas in the conditions of Gaza.

Do we really have to explain to you why fighting in open areas against Israel would be military cretinism?

[MadMonk]

Can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with @Rich on this one. You might as well ask why the Vietcong mostly fought jungle warfare. Any armed force will adapt to both their own and their enemies strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding intent vs. unintentional collateral damage, there is a third option here as well; reckless disregard for human life. The last one would probably be the easiest to charge the Israeli government and senior IDF officers with.

[Rich]

You might as well ask why the Vietcong mostly fought jungle warfare.

That's a good point, trying to blame the Americans for their environmental damage in the Vietnam war, don't blame us, we wouldn't have to deforest if those cowardly Vietcong didn't hide in the Jungle.

[wat0n]

Yes, we do have to ask that @Rich and @MadMonk.

We do, because even though some of us know why Hamas doesn't fortify open areas and fight from them there are others who seemingly don't get it so I want them to explain it to us.

This is even truer when Hamas doesn't just use Gazan cities as defensive positions but also uses them to carry out offensive actions like launching rockets into Israeli cities. I'm curious about what Israel is supposed to do in this situation, just let Hamas launch rockets against Israel's civilian population indefinitely?

[SpecialOlympian]

Can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with @Rich on this one. You might as well ask why the Vietcong mostly fought jungle warfare. Any armed force will adapt to both their own and their enemies strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding intent vs. unintentional collateral damage, there is a third option here as well; reckless disregard for human life. The last one would probably be the easiest to charge the Israeli government and senior IDF officers with.

I'm not reading this and I'm not going to have any opinion on what I'm quoting whatsoever.

but fucking thank you for just having an avatar. You could be lauding Hitler and repeating the 14 words, I don't care, thank you for taking th eleast amunt of effort having any visual signfifier to make this dumb slop more easily readable.

[SpecialOlympian]

If you don't have an avatar you're a fucking weirdo. Get one, assholes.

You post boring slop regardlesss, give me a picture so I can more easily ignore you.

[Pants-of-dog]

Just turn avatars and signatures off. The whole forum becomes readable.

And no one seems to be refuting the fact that the overall context, as well as the many different ways in which the IDF and Israeli government are committing genocide, all point to genocide.

Instead we have “I do not disagree with you but since the USA also did it, it is justified”.

[wat0n]

They don't.

The same evidence @Pants-of-dog mentions did not point to genocide in the battle for Mosul.

In fact, that very battle was fought, among other reasons, because of ISIS' crimes against Yazidis.

And I am still waiting for @Pants-of-dog to simply answer the rather obvious question: Why doesn't Hamas fortify its positions and fight in open areas instead of doing so inside Gaza's cities or within designated safe zones?

I do not need others to answer it, just you.

[Pants-of-dog]

The deliberate targeting of water infrastructure is one line of evidence pointing to genocide.

The deliberate targeting of families and their homes (especially the families of aid workers) is another line of evidence pointing to genocide.

The incredibly high rate of civilian casualties is another line of evidence.

The deliberate withholding of essential supplies into Gaza is another line of evidence.

The deliberate and systematic attacks on hospitals is another line of evidence.

The complete destruction of food production systems is another.

The past and ongoing comments from senior government and IDF officials indicating genocidal intent is another, especially when we see the same comments mirrored by IDF soldiers in the field, and we see a lack of accountability for such comments despite the ICJ ruling.

And all of this is corroborated by multiple lines of evidence: witness testimony, satellite images, statistical data, and expert observers.

And it is all logically coherent and understood within a well studied theoretical framework, with a majority of genocide scholars agreeing on the conclusion that this is genocide.

[wat0n]

The deliberate targeting of water infrastructure is one line of evidence pointing to genocide.

The deliberate targeting of families and their homes (especially the families of aid workers) is another line of evidence pointing to genocide.

The incredibly high rate of civilian casualties is another line of evidence.

The deliberate withholding of essential supplies into Gaza is another line of evidence.

The deliberate and systematic attacks on hospitals is another line of evidence.

The complete destruction of food production systems is another.

All of these happened in Mosul, nobody accuses the US or the Iraqi government of committing genocide.

The past and ongoing comments from senior government and IDF officials indicating genocidal intent is another, especially when we see the same comments mirrored by IDF soldiers in the field, and we see a lack of accountability for such comments despite the ICJ ruling.

You mean the ones that were taken out of context or outright misquoted?

And all of this is corroborated by multiple lines of evidence: witness testimony, satellite images, statistical data, and expert observers.

...All of which are also present in Mosul.

And it is all logically coherent and understood within a well studied theoretical framework, with a majority of genocide scholars agreeing on the conclusion that this is genocide.

Not only you lack evidence of that (what, you surveyed them?) but also you do not even understand your own theoretical frameworks as shown by your lack of understand of the theory of settler colonialism and even its definition.

[Pants-of-dog]

So there is no argument that we have multiple lines of argument all leading to the same conclusion.

Nor do we have any argument that these arguments are all based on facts and logic and describe true atrocities.

Nor do we have any argument that comments were made that are being interpreted as genocidal by the IDF foot soldiers.

Nor is there any argument that all of this is backed up by evidence and has been observed by experts on the ground.

Nor is there any argument about the understanding of this by scholars.

[wat0n]

It seems @Pants-of-dog has no counterarguments to offer to the fact that the battle of Mosul offers a good example of a very similar situation to that of Gaza that is not seen as genocide by anyone.

The other stuff is just made-up nonsense, and unproven.

[Pants-of-dog]

Simply ignoring the arguments and calling them nonsense is a tacit admission that there is no counter argument.

[wat0n]

I actually already answered them. You could just directly answer my question: Why doesn't Hamas fortify its positions and fight in open areas instead of doing so inside Gaza's cities or within designated safe zones?

[Pants-of-dog]

The fact that individual justifications were made for individual examples of all the different arguments does not, in any way, contradict or even address the fact that multiple lines of evidence all converge on the same conclusion.

As a comparison, Holocaust deniers often justify instances of genocide during WWII and deliberately ignore the big picture.

[wat0n]

Well, the question I asked deals with the big picture so answer it: Why doesn't Hamas fortify its positions and fight in open areas instead of doing so inside Gaza's cities or within designated safe zones?

[Pants-of-dog]

The refusal to address the big picture is noted.

Now, there is also no argument that all these atrocities happened and that they were perpetrated by the IDF.

[wat0n]

Hamas' tactics are very much part of the big picture, @Pants-of-dog. You asked to consider the big picture, and I am.

[Pants-of-dog]

Again, there is no argument that the IDF bombed water infra, schools, hospitals, aid workers, families, et cetera, deliberately and systematically.