[wat0n]

The definition of “deliberately” is not mine.

It comes from the study showing the IDF “deliberately and systematically” (the quote marks indicate I am quoting the study) attacked water infrastructure.

Once again, misunderstanding the argument is not a refutation of the argument.

How does the study reach that conclusion? Because they were attacked, they did not prove the attack was deliberate.

So how do you know that attacks on water pipes in Mosul like the one linked to above were not deliberate again?

And the claim that water was a problem since 2003 is wrong, according to the evidence cited about Mosul’s water. It explicitly states that under ISIL, they had no water problems.

Wow, your lack of reading comprehension is truly amazing:

Electricity and water has deteriorated significantly. Before Isis came, Mosul had about 20 hours a day of electricity from the national grid. Within four months of Isis taking over, it dropped to six-eight hours. For the past three months it has fallen to two hours a day. Each neighbourhood has water once a week at different times to fill up their tanks. In Raqqa, electricity is sporadic, dependent on how happy the militants are with the people’s adherence to their rules.

[Pants-of-dog]

The study, and its methodology are available here:
https://conflictandhealth.biomedcentral ... 24-00580-x

Abstract
Background
Since the Hamas attacks in Israel on 7 October 2023, the Israeli military has launched an assault in the Gaza Strip, which included over 12,000 targets struck and over 25,000 tons of incendiary munitions used by 2 November 2023. The objectives of this study include: (1) the descriptive and inferential spatial analysis of damage to critical civilian infrastructure (health, education, and water facilities) across the Gaza Strip during the first phase of the military campaign, defined as 7 October to 22 November 2023 and (2) the analysis of damage clustering around critical civilian infrastructure to explore broader questions about Israel’s adherence to International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
Methods
We applied multi-temporal coherent change detection on Copernicus Sentinel 1-A Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) imagery to detect signals indicative of damage to the built environment through 22 November 2023. Specific locations of health, education, and water facilities were delineated using open-source building footprint and cross-checked with geocoded data from OCHA, OpenStreetMap, and Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team. We then assessed the retrieval of damage at and with close proximity to sites of health, education, and water infrastructure in addition to designated evacuation corridors and civilian protection zones. The Global Moran’s I autocorrelation inference statistic was used to determine whether health, education, and water facility infrastructure damage was spatially random or clustered.
Results
During the period under investigation, in the entire Gaza Strip, 60.8% (n = 59) of health, 68.2% (n = 324) of education, and 42.1% (n = 64) of water facilities sustained infrastructure damage. Furthermore, 35.1% (n = 34) of health, 40.2% (n = 191) of education, and 36.8% (n = 56) of water facilities were functionally destroyed. Applying the Global Moran’s I spatial inference statistic to facilities demonstrated a high degree of damage clustering for all three types of critical civilian infrastructure, with Z-scores indicating < 1% likelihood of cluster damage occurring by random chance.
Conclusion
Spatial statistical analysis suggests widespread damage to critical civilian infrastructure that should have been provided protection under IHL. These findings raise serious allegations about the violation of IHL, especially in light of Israeli officials’ statements explicitly inciting violence and displacement and multiple widely reported acts of collective punishment.

…..

If any such study exists for this whataboutism, then it should be provided.

And from the text quoted above:

For Abdulkarim, the Mosul resident, the takeover of his hometown by Isis militants was at first a blessing. Under their rule, traffic across Mosul eased as blast walls were removed, security improved, and for a while, services such as electricity, water and street-cleaning were better than they had been when the Iraqi government was in control.

This contradicts the claim that there was food and water insecurity since 2003.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog where's the evidence of the deliberate nature of those attacks in the paper?

As for your second comment, just because there was a minor and temporary improvement it does not mean there were not water problems in Mosul.

[Rich]

It comes from the study showing the IDF “deliberately and systematically” (the quote marks indicate I am quoting the study) attacked water infrastructure.

Deliberately and systematically? If something is done systematically, surely pretty much by definition it must be done deliberately. This suggest to me that either the authors are stupid or they think their target audience is.

[Pants-of-dog]

While Mosul may have had water problems prior to the attack, the quoted text shows that these problems were sporadic.

In Gaza, on the other hand , the water problem was permanent since the start of the blockade decades ago.

As well as the deliberate targeting of water infrastructure, this difference makes the situation between Mosul and Gaza a bad comparison.

Mosul will no linger be addressed.

[wat0n]

Nowhere in the text it is shown in the quoted text that Mosul's water issues were "sporadic", @Pants-of-dog. In fact, Mosul's residents say quite clearly that the problem had become routine since they could only refill their water tanks once a week.

You have yet to explain how Mosul's water infrastructure was not deliberately targeted using your own definitions of "deliberately targeted".

You also don't get to decide what we discuss here.

[Pants-of-dog]

So we see that the water situation in Gaza was problematic for decades prior to the current attack, which was not the case elsewhere. And we see that the water systems in Gaza were deliberately and systematically targeted, while having no evidence that this occurred in other places.

Here is another study:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the attack by Hamas and the Israeli invasion in October, 2023, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, as reported by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.1 The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services,2 the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry,3 which found claims of data fabrication implausible.4
Collecting data is becoming increasingly difficult for the Gaza Health Ministry due to the destruction of much of the infrastructure.5 The Ministry has had to augment its usual reporting, based on people dying in its hospitals or brought in dead, with information from reliable media sources and first responders. This change has inevitably degraded the detailed data recorded previously. Consequently, the Gaza Health Ministry now reports separately the number of unidentified bodies among the total death toll. As of May 10, 2024, 30% of the 35 091 deaths were unidentified.1
Some officials and news agencies have used this development, designed to improve data quality, to undermine the veracity of the data. However, the number of reported deaths is likely an underestimate. The non-governmental organisation Airwars undertakes detailed assessments of incidents in the Gaza Strip and often finds that not all names of identifiable victims are included in the Ministry's list.6 Furthermore, the UN estimates that, by Feb 29, 2024, 35% of buildings in the Gaza Strip had been destroyed,5 so the number of bodies still buried in the rubble is likely substantial, with estimates of more than 10 000.7
Armed conflicts have indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence. Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years from causes such as reproductive, communicable, and non-communicable diseases. The total death toll is expected to be large given the intensity of this conflict; destroyed health-care infrastructure; severe shortages of food, water, and shelter; the population's inability to flee to safe places; and the loss of funding to UNRWA, one of the very few humanitarian organisations still active in the Gaza Strip.8
In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death9 to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip. A report from Feb 7, 2024, at the time when the direct death toll was 28 000, estimated that without a ceasefire there would be between 58 260 deaths (without an epidemic or escalation) and 85 750 deaths (if both occurred) by Aug 6, 2024.10
……

[wat0n]

Oh yes, a letter with no peer review is the next argument.

And @Pants-of-dog has still been unable to show Mosul's water problems were not long running before the US and the Iraqi government took the city from ISIS.

[Pants-of-dog]

The Lancet is a well respected peer reviewed medical journal.

It turns out the IDF has actually killed four times as many kids as we thought.

More like 80 000 instead of about 20 000.

[wat0n]

Letters to The Lancet are not peer reviewed

You also seem to have misunderstood it, too, which underscores your poor reading comprehension.

And I'm still waiting for you to address the example of Mosul and to show it's radically different from that of Gaza. You claimed Mosul did not have any major issues with procuring and producing essential services to the civilian population before the battle and it's already been shown to be false.

[Pants-of-dog]

So no argument that the IDF has killed over 80 000 children.

This is about 135 times as many kids killed as compared to the deaths of Ukrainian kids at the hands of the Russian army.

[wat0n]

Where's your evidence, @Pants-of-dog? A non peer reviewed letter isn't it. Even its authors do not claim that.

[Pants-of-dog]

The letter references many peer reviewed studies and makes a logical claim based on said studies.

There seems to he no criticism about the studies.

There is no criticism about the logic.

If all arguments need to be peer reviewed before being accepted, then every single argument our forth by Zionists can be ignored, since none of then are peer reviewed.

Now, the math showing that the IDF has killed many times more kids than the Russians is based on the idea that the number if dead Ukrainian children is also an estimate. If it is merely confirmed kills, we should use the same math to turn into the number of estimated deaths, about 2 400. This is about 1/35th of the number of kids killed by the IDF.

So it would be more correct to say that the IDF has killed between 35 and 135 times as many children as the Russian army.

[wat0n]

So the letter made a "logical" claim, it did not provide material evidence at all. It's just a guess. You didn't even understand the letter since it does not claim 186,000 have been killed in the war ("Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years from causes such as reproductive, communicable, and non-communicable diseases.").

[Pants-of-dog]

The material evidence in the letter is clearly mentioned.

The material evidence is the 41 712 bodies of human beings that have been confirmed killed by the IDF.

And if the only criticism is that I misused verb tenses to not clearly include all the kids that are still going to die at the hands of the IDF, then there is no disagreement about the megadeaths of kids at the hands of the IDF and Israeli government.

[wat0n]

How do alleged 41,020 bodies turn into 41,712 let alone 186,000?

[Pants-of-dog]

The other 600 plus were killed in the West Bank, by the IDF.

[wat0n]

Weird, I thought we were talking about Gaza.

How do they turn into 186,000 now?

[Pants-of-dog]

The difference between the two numbers is mathematically insignificant.

The deaths of over 600 people at the hands of the IDF is not insignificant for anyone. Except Zionists, I guess.

[wat0n]

They aren't insignificant indeed.

But we're talking about Gaza, not the West Bank. Accuracy is definitely significant too.

That includes accurately interpreting opinion letters you present as "material evidence".