Iran launches missiles towards Israeli Bases - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15326507
The US won't let Israel touch oil, that would be great for Putin and hamper the effort in Ukraine. I can imagine an attack on military bases (basically, a tit for tat) or one against their nuclear program (which is quite risky and would end some of the advantages it brings to Israel).
#15326508
Hakeer wrote:The latest idea is that Israel will blow up oil fields, which would throw the world oil market into chaos right before our election. Biden gently asked Netanyahu not to do it, but he doesn’t listen to Biden.

If you come for the king you best not miss. Both Biden and Harris have been openly treacherous towards Bibi. We live in a rule based order. The rules are.

1 Israel is allowed to interfere in American elections.

2 America is not allowed to interfere in Israeli politics.

3 It is the duty of America to interfere in every other country in the world, in order to safe guard the interests of Israel. Eg Victoria, fuck the EU Nuland.

4 No other country besides Israel is allowed to interfere in American elections.
#15326516
wat0n wrote:Send ground troops there? To do that, and Israel did, you have to take all the areas surrounding the hospital, then raid it and have firefights inside it at best or be forced to shell it anyway at worst.

Tell me, why is it so much worse to use a single 2,000 lb bomb than to use several 250 lb ones?


Yes, you fight their fighters with your fighters. That’s not a war crime. Or you can just blow up everyone in the place with a 2,000 pound bomb. That is a war crime. The 2,000 pound bomb is quick and effective, and that is why they use them.

If you killed everyone with multiple smaller bombs, that’s also a war crime. The “what about” what U.S. did in Iraq, etc. argument won’t work against me, because I agree that that we have blood on our hands there.
#15326519
Hakeer wrote:Yes, you fight their fighters with your fighters. That’s not a war crime. Or you can just blow up everyone in the place with a 2,000 pound bomb. That is a war crime. The 2,000 pound bomb is quick and effective, and that is why they use them.

If you killed everyone with multiple smaller bombs, that’s also a war crime. The “what about” what U.S. did in Iraq, etc. argument won’t work against me, because I agree that that we have blood on our hands there.


Sending ground troops, in practice, leads to the killing of far more civilians since those troops have to fight their way to the hospital. And yes, civilians get caught in combat too.

As for the US war against ISIS, nobody has claimed the US committed war crimes there.
#15326520
Rich wrote:1 Israel is allowed to interfere in American elections.


Understatement. Through its agents here like AIPAC, Israel is allowed to dominate our politics i.e. decide who can get elected and who can't, so Capital Hill has degenerated into a den of traitors acting primarily in the interest of a foreign power.

It is the duty of America to interfere in every other country in the world, in order to safe guard the interests of Israel.


Exactly, it's an overwhelming disgrace. Israel uber allies. The idiotic invasion of Iraq in 2003 was the work of pro-israel neocons. Iran is mercilessly hounded so Israel can retain a regional nuclear monopoly.
#15326525
wat0n wrote:Sending ground troops, in practice, leads to the killing of far more civilians since those troops have to fight their way to the hospital. And yes, civilians get caught in combat too.

As for the US war against ISIS, nobody has claimed the US committed war crimes there.


As they fight there way in, some civilians can flee. Almost nobody gets out alive if you drop the 2,000 pound bombs on the building. That is what make it a war crime. Military vs. Military is not a war crime, even though there are some civilian casualties.

You were the one who brought up ISIS. I said we did war crimes in Vietnam and Iraq.
#15326526
Hakeer wrote:As they fight there way in, some civilians can flee. Almost nobody gets out alive if you drop the 2,000 pound bomb on the building. That is what make it a war crime. Military vs. Military is not a war crime, even though there are some civilian casualties.

You were the one who brought up ISIS. I said we did war crimes in Vietnam and Iraq.


The US fired several small (250 lb) bombs per target in Mosul to kill ISIS fighters who had taken cover inside civilian homes. It was often necessary to fire these small bombs several times because the first bombing would fail to kill the ISIS fighters, and this "warning" would be used by them to take better cover or flee to neighboring houses, leading to a repeat of the process. It is currently assessed by some US officers that in the end this was more harmful to civilians than just firing a heavier bomb once to kill ISIS fighters right away as more homes needed to be bombed to kill ISIS fighters in this whack-a-mole game of sorts, with most civilians not even being killed by the blast but by being crushed by their own houses as they collapsed.

Are you saying an attacker should still follow this approach now that it's known it will still kill civilians and may, if anything, kill more of them since more bombs would need to be used over a wider surface?

Also, why wouldn't it be military v military if a heavier bomb is used to destroy a military target?
#15326528
wat0n wrote:The US fired several small (250 lb) bombs per target in Mosul to kill ISIS fighters who had taken cover inside civilian homes. It was often necessary to fire these small bombs several times because the first bombing would fail to kill the ISIS fighters, and this "warning" would be used by them to take better cover or flee to neighboring houses, leading to a repeat of the process. It is currently assessed by some US officers that in the end this was more harmful to civilians than just firing a heavier bomb once to kill ISIS fighters right away as more homes needed to be bombed to kill ISIS fighters in this whack-a-mole game of sorts, with most civilians not even being killed by the blast but by being crushed by their own houses as they collapsed.

Are you saying an attacker should still follow this approach now that it's known it will still kill civilians and may, if anything, kill more of them since more bombs would need to be used over a wider surface?

Also, why wouldn't it be military v military if a heavier bomb is used to destroy a military target?


I’m not saying the Mosul bombings are not also a war crime. There are other examples in Iraq and Vietnam, as I said.

Bombing the hospital is Military vs. Civilians (99%) to kill a few Hamas guys. That is what makes it a war crime.
It is about proportionality.
#15326532
Hakeer wrote:I’m not saying the Mosul bombings are not also a war crime. There are other examples in Iraq and Vietnam, as I said.

Bombing the hospital is Military vs. Civilians (99%) to kill a few Hamas guys. That is what makes it a war crime.
It is about proportionality.


Not if civilians are allowed to evacuate the hospital first.
#15326634
wat0n wrote:You mean Hamas' members, that is.


I mean the minister of health in Gaza. Presumably, he had access to information. Since we don’t have a video of the bombing, you are free to believe whatever you want. I believe it was Israel, not Hamas, that killed most of the 40,000 Palestinians.
#15326644
Hakeer wrote:I mean the minister of health in Gaza. Presumably, he had access to information. Since we don’t have a video of the bombing, you are free to believe whatever you want. I believe it was Israel, not Hamas, that killed most of the 40,000 Palestinians.


The Ministry of Health in Gaza is under Hamas' control.

Again, even Western intelligence agencies and not precisely pro-Israel military experts have said Al Ahli was likely hit by a stray rocket.
#15326647
wat0n wrote:The Ministry of Health in Gaza is under Hamas' control.

Again, even Western intelligence agencies and not precisely pro-Israel military experts have said Al Ahli was likely hit by a stray rocket.


The United Nations, World Health Organization, and the independent Human Rights Watch all regard reports of health ministry reliable. There is no video evidence, and I wouldn’t want to be any Western intelligence official who adopted the Palestinian account of the bombing.
#15326648
Hakeer wrote:The United Nations, World Health Organization, and the independent Human Rights Watch all regard reports of health ministry reliable. There is no video evidence, and I wouldn’t want to be any Western intelligence official who adopted the Palestinian account of the bombing.


There is also no video evidence that the hospital was attacked by Israel.

But there is evidence that Hamas was very quick to remove all the remains of whatever hit it, and that the damage to the hospital is not consistent with almost 500 dead.

Then there are analysts who have a history of criticizing Israel saying the damage is not consistent with a heavy bomb but is consistent with the damage by a rocket, like Marc Garlasco.

But what do you have? Some weird ass conspiracy theory about Zionists.
#15326651
wat0n wrote:There is also no video evidence that the hospital was attacked by Israel.

But there is evidence that Hamas was very quick to remove all the remains of whatever hit it, and that the damage to the hospital is not consistent with almost 500 dead.

Then there are analysts who have a history of criticizing Israel saying the damage is not consistent with a heavy bomb but is consistent with the damage by a rocket, like Marc Garlasco.

But what do you have? Some weird ass conspiracy theory about Zionists.


No, what I have is the report of people who were actually on the ground in Gaza. I’ll take that over speculations of an analyst who has no video evidence to analyze.
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