US Presidential election 2024 thread. - Page 116 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

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#15327039
Hakeer wrote:Here is real GDP growth in this country…
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1

Apart from occasional recessions (mere blips in the trajectory if you look at them from a distance), it just continues to go up, and up, and up. That is why I don't sell stocks during recessions.

The problem in this country is not PRODUCTION. It never has been. The problem is the DISTRIBUTION of the income/wealth that we produce.

We cannot fix a problem if we can’t understand what is causing it.

1. Wealth is NOT distributed, it is acquired.
2. You appear to recognize there is a time to buy and a time to sell, and those of us who do acquire wealth, while some who are in a position of having to sell at the wrong time acquire a loss.
Much of the problem, IMO, could/would be solved by changing our Federal individual income tax code, IF ONLY we would begin to discuss how.
#15327041
Indi wrote:1. Wealth is NOT distributed, it is acquired.
2. You appear to recognize there is a time to buy and a time to sell, and those of us who do acquire wealth, while some who are in a position of having to sell at the wrong time acquire a loss.
Much of the problem, IMO, could/would be solved by changing our Federal individual income tax code, IF ONLY we would begin to discuss how.


Wealth is distributed every time the government writes a check to an individual or a corporation. You tax billionaires by raising marginal rates on income, close tax loopholes, increase estate taxes. Then you redistribute that wealth to provide healthcare, housing, education, child care, etc. to those who most need it. Call it “liberal socialism” or whatever.
#15327045
Hakeer wrote:Wealth is distributed every time the government writes a check to an individual or a corporation. You tax billionaires by raising marginal rates on income, close tax loopholes, increase estate taxes. Then you redistribute that wealth to provide healthcare, housing, education, child care, etc. to those who most need it. Call it “liberal socialism” or whatever.

Tax revenue is distributed, my wealth doesn't diminish when government spends, and if anything inflation only increases my wealth.
As for taxes, what I've been suggesting would eliminate ALL tax loopholes, adjustments, deductions, and simply tax gross income.
Wealth, IMO, is and should remain the excesses acquired after taxes have been paid.
Also, I've only concentrated on Individual income taxes, which means another discussion on business/corporate taxes would also be needed.
#15327047
Indi wrote:Tax revenue is distributed, my wealth doesn't diminish when government spends, and if anything inflation only increases my wealth.
As for taxes, what I've been suggesting would eliminate ALL tax loopholes, adjustments, deductions, and simply tax gross income.
Wealth, IMO, is and should remain the excesses acquired after taxes have been paid.
Also, I've only concentrated on Individual income taxes, which means another discussion on business/corporate taxes would also be needed.


Your wealth doesn’t diminish when government spends, but the wealth of the recipients increases. Biden proposes billionaires must pay at least 25%, regardless of loopholes, etc. Your proposal works, too. More than one way to increase income tax revenue. And, as I said, you can also raise revenue by raising the exclusion on estate tax and/or corporate tax rates. I would also give more resources to the IRS to investigate and audits tax evaders. Tax cheaters cost us a lot of revenue. That is why Republicans resist beefing up the IRS. My God, can you imagine what Trump would do with the IRS and his new “absolute immunity” from the Supreme Court?
#15327048
Hakeer wrote:Your wealth doesn’t diminish when government spends, but the wealth of the recipients increases. Biden proposes billionaires must pay at least 25%, regardless of loopholes, etc. Your proposal works, too. More than one way to increase income tax revenue. And, as I said, you can also raise revenue by raising the exclusion on estate tax and/or corporate tax rates. I would also give more resources to the IRS to investigate and audits tax evaders. Tax cheaters cost us a lot of revenue. That is why Republicans resist beefing up the IRS. My God, can you imagine what Trump would do with the IRS and his new “absolute immunity” from the Supreme Court?

I would agree the recipients wealth increased IF they did not spend it.
As I said I'm looking at making changes to the taxation of income of individuals, NOT wealth, though increasing the tax of the higher/highest income individuals would result in less wealth accumulation resulting from both income and inflation.
A major change in what I'm suggesting would be the massive simplification of our income tax reporting, simply producing the sum total of income acquired from ALL sources, or gross income, and then a simple calculation of the tax owed relative to the tax table. Should greatly reduce the complexity of checking returns by the IRS, and the number of forms needed to report one's taxes.

Those with a gross income of $386,550 would pay a 25% income tax, and the tax would increase as gross income increased.
In tax year 2020, the top 1% of tax payers with and AGI of $548,336 or more paid an average tax rate of 26.0%.

My tax code would result in the lowest 1% earner $548,336 paying a 25.84% tax.
Last edited by Indi on 13 Oct 2024 06:15, edited 2 times in total.
#15327050
Indi wrote:I would agree the recipients wealth increased IF they did not spend it.
As I said I'm looking at making changes to the taxation of income of individuals, NOT wealth, though increasing the tax of the higher/highest income individuals would result in less wealth accumulation resulting from both income and inflation.
A major change in what I'm suggesting would be the massive simplification of our income tax reporting, simply producing the sum total of income acquired from ALL sources, or gross income, and then a simple calculation of the tax owed relative to the tax table. Should greatly reduce the complexity of checking returns by the IRS, and the number of forms needed to report one's taxes.


Well, recipients can invest the money in stocks or their education/training to increase their wealth. Or they could gamble it at the casino. Most of the distribution would be to improve human capital which enables wealth increases.

I like your idea on taxes. It would cause me to pay more taxes on my expected dividends and capital gains income this year, but I’m happy to pay it. My contribution would be peanuts to what it would cost billionaires.
#15327052
Hakeer wrote:Well, recipients can invest the money in stocks or their education/training to increase their wealth. Or they could gamble it at the casino. Most of the distribution would be to improve human capital which enables wealth increases.

I like your idea on taxes. It would cause me to pay more taxes on my expected $74,000 dividends income this year, but I’m happy to pay it. My contribution would be peanuts to what it would cost billionaires.

Government should only be giving money which needs to be spent, not invested in a way that results in an immediate increase of wealth.
It would greatly increase my taxes also, but reduce the taxes paid by my son, daughter, and grandchildren at the moment.
What I am looking for is others to examine what I'm suggesting to see if there are any issues I've overlooked and find ways to resolve them rationally, if there are any.
If enough people were to get on board and contribute to creating an acceptable change to our tax code, maybe then we could get some elected politicians involved in bringing about some change.
#15327054
Indi wrote:Government should only be giving money which needs to be spent, not invested in a way that results in an immediate increase of wealth.
It would greatly increase my taxes also, but reduce the taxes paid by my son, daughter, and grandchildren at the moment.
What I am looking for is others to examine what I'm suggesting to see if there are any issues I've overlooked and find ways to resolve them rationally, if there are any.
If enough people were to get on board and contribute to creating an acceptable change to our tax code, maybe then we could get some elected politicians involved in bringing about some change.


Many poor people need help just getting back on their feet. Food stamps, job training, pubic housing, vouchers for clothing, bus passes, mental health counseling, drug rehab. I used to work in this field and so I am familiar with their needs.
#15327056
Hakeer wrote:Many poor people need help just getting back on their feet. Food stamps, job training, pubic housing, vouchers for clothing, bus passes, mental health counseling, drug rehab. I used to work in this field and so I am familiar with their needs.

I agree, and that's factored into my tax code change.
#15327065
Tainari88 wrote:The amount of trans people is very low in general. It is mostly a non issue.

I live in Britain and its certainly not a non issue here. I was chatting to a friend with a young child the other day. Note there's nothing far right about him, he's been a sort of anarchist Green for nearly all of his adult life, lived in low impact eco community for the last couple of decades. I said are you going to send him to school. He said no. I said why not. He said because of all the Trans stuff. The sickos that now control the education system start trying to mess up children's heads from the moment they get hold of them. They're not unique either. Lots of parents I talk to, none of whom have any history what so ever of far right activity, are all deeply disturbed by the Trans ideology being pushed in our schools.
#15327067
Hakeer wrote:Well, recipients can invest the money in stocks or their education/training to increase their wealth. Or they could gamble it at the casino. Most of the distribution would be to improve human capital which enables wealth increases.

I like your idea on taxes. It would cause me to pay more taxes on my expected dividends and capital gains income this year, but I’m happy to pay it. My contribution would be peanuts to what it would cost billionaires.

It would cost billionaires peanuts too. You think billionaires pay income tax? Lol.

Before you draw up plans to pay off the national debt by taxing the income of billionaires, you guys need to read this…

Buy Borrow Die…
#15327070
Rich wrote:he's been a sort of anarchist Green for nearly all of his adult life, [and] lived in [a] low[-]impact eco[-]community for the last couple of decades.

Being an anarchist Green does not grant you immunity from stupidity.

The average age for trans women to undergo surgery is 42 in the UK.


:lol:
#15327071
ingliz wrote:Being an anarchist Green does not grant you immunity from stupidity.

:lol: Well you'll go get no dispute from me on that one. My point was that there are lots of people, who have nothing to do with the traditional right, the conservative monarchy loving right, the radical libertarian right, the National Front / BNP / Monday Club White Supremacist right, who really don't like the modern woke agenda.
#15327073
Potemkin wrote:It would cost billionaires peanuts too. You think billionaires pay income tax? Lol.

Before you draw up plans to pay off the national debt by taxing the income of billionaires, you guys need to read this…

Buy Borrow Die…


They will pay more income tax, and that’s not the only tool we have. There’s corporate tax, estate tax, and their ultimate nightmare — a straight-up wealth tax that would hit every asset.
#15327083
Hakeer wrote:They will pay more income tax, and that’s not the only tool we have. There’s corporate tax, estate tax, and their ultimate nightmare — a straight-up wealth tax that would hit every asset.

If they technically don’t have any income, then no, they will not pay more income tax. A billionaire isn’t some Joe Sixpack who lives from paycheck to paycheck. Nor is a billionaire a middle-class investor, who lives off dividends and clips out coupons. Billionaires buy high value assets which they know will increase in value (eg, famous art works), then they borrow money using those assets as collateral. They have no income, so they pay no income tax. They don’t sell the asset, so they pay no capital gains tax. As the assets increase in value, they just borrow more money using the assets’ increased value as extra collateral. Rinse and repeat. It’s easy to tax Joe Sixpack, it’s somewhat more difficult to tax guys like your good self, and it’s almost impossible to tax billionaires. To use the colloquial expression, billionaires have “fuck off money”. :)
#15327086
Potemkin wrote:If they technically don’t have any income, then no, they will not pay more income tax. A billionaire isn’t some Joe Sixpack who lives from paycheck to paycheck. Nor is a billionaire a middle-class investor, who lives off dividends and clips out coupons. Billionaires buy high value assets which they know will increase in value (eg, famous art works), then they borrow money using those assets as collateral. They have no income, so they pay no income tax. They don’t sell the asset, so they pay no capital gains tax. As the assets increase in value, they just borrow more money using the assets’ increased value as extra collateral. Rinse and repeat. It’s easy to tax Joe Sixpack, it’s somewhat more difficult to tax guys like your good self, and it’s almost impossible to tax billionaires. To use the colloquial expression, billionaires have “fuck off money”. :)


Indeed.

Those loans are also SUUUUUPER low interest. Way lower compared to anything the average joe six pack can get. Thus, the maintenance on the debt is easy for them. They basically only get taxed on the assets they have to liquidate to cash in order to pay the lower interest. You get billionaires paying taxes on like $50k of income a year and shit. Nearly nothing compared to their wealth and the growth of their assets. I wouldn't be surprised if they find some other loop hole to get out of paying taxes on even that income.

Why do we have a culture of joe six pack worshiping these pieces of this billionaires? The data shows that today, there are fewer and fewer self-made millionaires and billionaires at that. Most of those assholes got their money from mom and dad, and then pretend they are genius, and then we have a bunch of joe six pack morons validating that lie. An example of that, in the context of this thread is Trump. A complete business failure. YEt, we have morons even right here on pofo, still pushing the lie he's some successful real estate tycoon, when he's really a fucking fraudster.

Why do we have so many fucking morons on this planet and here on pofo?
#15327088
Rancid wrote:Indeed.

Those loans are also SUUUUUPER low interest. Way lower compared to anything the average joe six pack can get. Thus, the maintenance on the debt is easy for them. They basically only get taxed on the assets they have to liquidate to cash in order to pay the lower interest. You get billionaires paying taxes on like $50k of income a year and shit. Nearly nothing compared to their wealth and the growth of their assets. I wouldn't be surprised if they find some other loop hole to get out of paying taxes on even that income.

Why do we have a culture of joe six pack worshiping these pieces of this billionaires? The data shows that today, there are fewer and fewer self-made millionaires and billionaires at that. Most of those assholes got their money from mom and dad, and then pretend they are genius, and then we have a bunch of joe six pack morons validating that lie. An example of that, in the context of this thread is Trump. A complete business failure. YEt, we have morons even right here on pofo, still pushing the lie he's some successful real estate tycoon, when he's really a fucking fraudster.

Why do we have so many fucking morons on this planet and here on pofo?

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin.
#15327091
Rich wrote:I live in Britain and its certainly not a non issue here. I was chatting to a friend with a young child the other day. Note there's nothing far right about him, he's been a sort of anarchist Green for nearly all of his adult life, lived in low impact eco community for the last couple of decades. I said are you going to send him to school. He said no. I said why not. He said because of all the Trans stuff. The sickos that now control the education system start trying to mess up children's heads from the moment they get hold of them. They're not unique either. Lots of parents I talk to, none of whom have any history what so ever of far right activity, are all deeply disturbed by the Trans ideology being pushed in our schools.


I can't speak for Britain. I have no idea what is being pushed onto kids there.

I live in Mexico. My son goes to a private school. They have foreign language, math, science, social studies, etc. Normal stuff. It is his first school that does not emphasize English and Spanish together. I did that on purpose because I need him to feel the pressure of writing well in Spanish. He needs to balance both languages out perfectly. He is slightly behind in Spanish writing. So that is part of the reason that school fits the bill. Another important point is that it is not that expensive and has a lot of electives.

He gets his physical exercise doing fencing and track and field. Both are completely free of cost in this state. His coach has had athletes winning in the Panamerican games and in the international competitions for his group.

The school is Mexican. Mexicans are traditional in many things. One of them is about gender identities. Though Mexico is a tolerant culture. Mexico City and the state of Mexico passed legislation to make gay marriage legal and women are allowed to have abortions in Mexico City if they want one.

Trans people you see them in the street. I do not know if they are discriminated against in Mexican society.

But that anybody would push and promote transsexual identities onto Mexican school children? NO. Anyone tries that shit and they get kicked out of their administration post immediately. Pushing politics, religion and gender confusion issues onto kids in a society full of conventional family setups? Is going to lose.

Mexicans are above any other real cultural quality? Are lovers of, and uphold, and respect tradition. When the USA dumps a certain concept quickly because a new fad and a new trend displaces that concept? Mexico tries a new thing out. If they love it? They keep it forever and ever.

For example that tacos al pastor was from a Lebanese immigrant. He brought his culture to Mexico. The Mexicans loved it and kept it forever. Many Italian traditions found a home in Mexico. French ones too. The Welsh settled in San Luis Potosi with their pasties and so on and the Mexicans to this day make those pasties. All from the 19th century.

The USA has shuttered Woolworth's, Sears, and many other stores that no longer exist in the USA. Mexico? They still exist.

Songs? A 14 year old Mexican kid is going to know the same songs as his 80 year old great grandmother. They sing them together. Traditional all the way they are.

The Trans issue is a non issue in this country. Anyone thinking a man can become a woman without a uterus or ovaries or the ability of giving birth is living a lie. Along with a woman putting on a fake penis and testes and thinking she can get her girlfriend pregnant without the little swimmers.

To think that can change because some people want to push an agenda on kids that are not their own kids? Is stupid in Mexico.

I have no idea why in the UK they think it is a threat.
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