US Presidential election 2024 thread. - Page 117 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

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#15327094
Rich wrote:I live in Britain and its certainly not a non issue here. I was chatting to a friend with a young child the other day. Note there's nothing far right about him, he's been a sort of anarchist Green for nearly all of his adult life, lived in low impact eco community for the last couple of decades. I said are you going to send him to school. He said no. I said why not. He said because of all the Trans stuff. The sickos that now control the education system start trying to mess up children's heads from the moment they get hold of them. They're not unique either. Lots of parents I talk to, none of whom have any history what so ever of far right activity, are all deeply disturbed by the Trans ideology being pushed in our schools.


The trans issue is an extension of the gay issue, and the whole damn thing stems from Christian Evangelicalism, which Republicans exploit for votes.
#15327095
Potemkin wrote:“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin.


:hmm: bleh..... We really really really need to invest more in public education. :hmm:

By the way, that statement is (mostly) true because intelligence (as measured by IQ tests anyway) is on a bell curve. On perfect normal distribution, the average and median are equal. Therefore it would be correct (or mostly correct) to say that half of people are below the average. Sorry, it's only natural for me to think about those kinds of things when I read a statement like that.
#15327096
Rancid wrote::hmm: bleh..... We really really really need to invest more in public education. :hmm:

By the way, that statement is (mostly) true because intelligence (as measured by IQ tests anyway) is on a bell curve. On perfect normal distribution, the average and median are equal. Therefore it would be correct (or mostly correct) to say that half of people are below the average. Sorry, it's only natural for me to think about those kinds of things when I read a statement like that.


It gets down to the question of how “stupid” is an IQ=100. Mine used to be 135, but I’ve lost some points due to age. Sometimes I can’t even remember what I did with the car keys. Getting old sucks. I wouldn’t recommend it.
#15327103
Potemkin wrote:It would cost billionaires peanuts too. You think billionaires pay income tax? Lol.

Before you draw up plans to pay off the national debt by taxing the income of billionaires, you guys need to read this…

Buy Borrow Die…


I always wondered why it is so hard for people like me to get stocks and bonds. They have it all locked up. Lol.
#15327110
Rugoz wrote:That's funny because her first answer sounds more intelligent and she's actually answering the question, more or less. But hey, that's American politics. It doesn't matter what you say as long as you project confidence and strength. Trump in a nutshell.


It was a word salad, which has become a common criticism of her delivery and speaking.

I heard it claimed elsewhere that the original answer could have been even worse than the initial one that was edited and aired, but it is unlikely we will ever have anything except the initial word salad clip.

As many also believe that Trump is verbose and a magnet for controversy, I think the next four years, regardless of who wins, will be very interesting.
#15327111
Hakeer wrote:The trans issue is an extension of the gay issue, and the whole damn thing stems from Christian Evangelicalism, which Republicans exploit for votes.


This doesn't make sense because virtually every group in society was opposed to homosexual marriage in the 80s, when the moral majority movement really took off, and so the casual opposition to marriage equality and other major gay rights issues was universal.

Today, being in a Christian nation means you very likely have all manner of LGBTQ rights, while historically rather irreligious societies like China, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, etc., tend to be highly critical of LGBTQ, and what inroads it has made are simply legal & political conventions reflective of pleasing Western NGOs and Ivy League educated elites, and the average person still looking to these things as simultaneously funny and grotesque.

Christianity is the catalyst for human rights and viewing the aberrant mercifully.
#15327115
Rancid wrote:Looks like correlation and causation are getting confused.


Christianity divorced religion from the state apparatus in the Western world, and spoke of salvation as a largely individual phenomena. It also rather uniquely spoke about the necessity of loving one's enemies, and in viewing the sinner as having a second shot at life and not simply one who was born of poor constitution or character.

These things are quite vital in opposing the totalitarian urge in humanity, which is still very plain to see when you speak with East Asians who even in societies with modern political constitutions ruled by modern political philosophies often see the state, the culture, and the people functioning as a single unit.

What's funny is this idea we see returning in the West where people treat dissenters and people who disagree actively with the government narrative of events as agents of misinformation, which draws into question the inalienable rights that were at the basis of classical liberalism and even to lesser degrees of monarchy as distinguished from despotism.

Of course, other societies have always had concepts of justice and an awareness of tyranny, but it was Christianity that provided the basis and the lexicon for subsequent political theory that invested great worth in the individual.

Idiots like Stephen Pinker look at the 'age of enlightenment' for this and gush about literate men being touched by literature humanizing women because they are completely unaware of Christian hagiography that has always been obsessed with the stories of women, children, the downtrodden, etc., all handing themselves over to Christ, often facing martyrdom by powerful political forces, which are always ultimately millennia old stories about the righteous individual against the mob & the tyrant.

There are some prequels to this in other civilizations but nothing as extensive, and they often have within them ethnocentric and community identity as central themes, like with Esther and Daniel from the Old Testament who stood up against tyranny but were successful and did so as part of a greater struggle for ethnos. Christians record the singular deaths of young women at the hands of their own communities that provide no political change as edifying stories.
#15327116
Verv wrote:Christianity divorced religion from the state apparatus in the Western world, and spoke of salvation as a largely individual phenomena.


Good thing Oklahoma is putting the bible in every classroom.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are rambling about. That we should all be Christian because of the influence of Christianity on the west?

How does yours support of Trump factor into Christianity anyway? :lol:
#15327122
Rancid wrote:Good thing Oklahoma is putting the bible in every classroom.


This stuff is really performative. I would not support doing this. I was unaware this was evening happenig.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are rambling about. That we should all be Christian because of the influence of Christianity on the west?


People should consider both the West and Christianity in this context. I am sure you have already thought a lot about these things, and you have to make your own decisions.

I think it's also a fun set of points to debate.

How does yours support of Trump factor into Christianity anyway? :lol:


There are many good Christians who vote for left & far left candidates, and many people who do the same with right & far right candidates. It doesn't matter as long as people are staying true to the principles which respect human rights.
#15327125
@Verv wrote:

which respect human rights.


No, Verv the US government and many Western nations have never respected human rights. They respected corporate rights. Rich people not paying a damn thing in taxes rights. And absuse of power rights.

How can you be a Christian and vote for a totally immoral man like Trump? it is beyond belief how that is reconciled in your mind.

For me the Right is Satan incarnate. They always have been. Fear based in every single political philosophy of theirs. Reptilian fearful decisions and brains. They are vomit mentality in morals Verv. No matter what.

They espouse Christ but hate Black people, hate the poor, and the destitute, say they love babies but do not spend money on supporting women having kids without help. They talk sheer shit all day about family values and molest their own children, and lust over their own daughters and sons while clinging to bible verses. Total hypocritical, pedophiles and sickos and mysognistic callous psychos of the worst sort.

Greedy and golden calf worshipping materialistic devils who sell out their most sacred relationship to God and their religious faith in order to have new cars and big fancy homes. They are nauseating in their hypocrisy.

They say they are merciful to those that are different than they are? No, they are not. They hate Blacks, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans. They secretly feel superior to the 91% of humanity that is not European. They are TERRIBLE in the extreme with their small minded and racist shitty ways of thinking.

Sharing and cooperating is Chirstian. Give away your wealth and follow Christ. Sacrifice it all for love of humanity.

None of them are that way. They are greedy, gaudy, ignorant, arrogant, controlling and bellicose, lying, thieving immoral lowlives who make humanity look BAD. In front of human societies from all over the world. They shame the word of God and their faith. They shame themselves thoroughly.

They vote for obvious criminals and immoral people because of FEAR. Of losing power to people they never bothered to respect, understand or care about.

I find them TERRIBLE Verv.
#15327127
Catching up. Mike Johnson said today that non-citizens are going to vote in the election. He also said Republicans are not trying to undermine the integrity of our electoral system. Pence had some moral integrity. This man does not. Do not expect him to honor his Constitutional duty to certify the election.
#15327128
Hakeer wrote:Catching up. Mike Johnson said today that non-citizens are going to vote in the election. He also said Republicans are not trying to undermine the integrity of our electoral system. Pence had some moral integrity. This man does not. Do not expect him to honor his Constitutional duty to certify the election.


Yeah right. Like Latinos want to vote in an election when they do not have any papers at all.

John Leguizamo said this about those Mike Johnson types... :lol: :lol:

Check out the behind the cactus comments.

#15327129
Tainari88 wrote:@Verv wrote:



No, Verv the US government and many Western nations have never respected human rights. They respected corporate rights. Rich people not paying a damn thing in taxes rights. And absuse of power rights.


If you turn your sensitivity to human rights violations high enough, sure, I see what you are saying. There are still many flaws that remain in the system, and I respect that sensitivity that you have to these flaws...

Because progress means beginning to address these as much as we can.

And yes, there needs to be properly paid taxes from the elites and corporations, and the system should function for the people, not for them.

It's simply a very difficult task because power tends to centralize & accumulate.

But based on the general thrust of the West, it has been good, and Christianity is to credit for the value system that has allowed it to be generally good.

How can you be a Christian and vote for a totally immoral man like Trump? it is beyond belief how that is reconciled in your mind.


I do not think he committed any sexual assaults. Yes, it is beyond a doubt he was a philanderer, but I think that is par for the course for most men.

If you were to handicap the right to only be able to vote for exceedingly ethical men, we would never get anything done.

For me the Right is Satan incarnate. They always have been. Fear based in every single political philosophy of theirs. Reptilian fearful decisions and brains. They are vomit mentality in morals Verv. No matter what.


I think we need a balanced view.

I could also paint a picture of the left as envious and rebellious, fixated on the destruction of all forms of tradition, desiring to force mediocrity on everybody and to reward laziness, all through the Communist government stealing the hard earned wealth of the middle class...

But that is also unfair.

They espouse Christ but hate Black people, hate the poor, and the destitute, say they love babies but do not spend money on supporting women having kids without help. They talk sheer shit all day about family values and molest their own children, and lust over their own daughters and sons while clinging to bible verses. Total hypocritical, pedophiles and sickos and mysognistic callous psychos of the worst sort.


This just isn't true at all of the average Republican, and it would also be untrue to present a caricature like this of the left.
#15327130
Verv wrote:This doesn't make sense because virtually every group in society was opposed to homosexual marriage in the 80s, when the moral majority movement really took off, and so the casual opposition to marriage equality and other major gay rights issues was universal.

Today, being in a Christian nation means you very likely have all manner of LGBTQ rights, while historically rather irreligious societies like China, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, etc., tend to be highly critical of LGBTQ, and what inroads it has made are simply legal & political conventions reflective of pleasing Western NGOs and Ivy League educated elites, and the average person still looking to these things as simultaneously funny and grotesque.

Christianity is the catalyst for human rights and viewing the aberrant mercifully.


It wasn’t until 2015 that gay marriage was legal in all states. I have Evangelical Christians in my own family. They oppose both gay marriage and gay couples adopting children, fearing they would turn the kid into a homosexual. They think people “choose” to become homosexual. They believe that homosexual acts in the privacy of their own bedroom is a “sin” because the Bible says so. I could go on and on.

These attitudes are not universal but popular enough among Evangelicals to make them a viable constituency for Republicans. Their current craze is trans women, gender-affirming medical care, etc. They think it’s a winning issue for them. It is the ONLY ad they are running for Trump during NFL games. I saw it again today during the Lions/Cowboys game.
#15327131
The first problem with transsexuals is - what is even the problem ? We had the necessary medical procedures since many decades already. What is missing ? Except obviously further perfecting said conversion ?

The problem with transsexuals is that much of what is happening in this area seems medically inappropiate. For example:

- The rate of homosexuality is about the same everywhere, no matter where you go. Transsexuals on the other hand appear extremely concentrated in some places.

- Medically invasive operations that have irreversible consequences such as hormone theraphy are already applied to children.

- A really alarming statistic is that the elevated rates of suicide of transsexuals doesnt actually lower after the conversion. How is that so ? Isnt it the actual idea of this conversion to solve the cause for the unhappiness of these people ?

Thats why some countries like Sweden are already rolling back on the over the top "support" for transsexuals. And this is done by doctors, not by politicians. Only people where we are sure that they are indeed transsexuals should receive medical procedure with such lasting consequences.
#15327133
Hakeer wrote:It wasn’t until 2015 that gay marriage was legal in all states. I have Evangelical Christians in my own family. They oppose both gay marriage and gay couples adopting children, fearing they would turn the kid into a homosexual. They think people “choose” to become homosexual. They believe that homosexual acts in the privacy of their own bedroom is a “sin” because the Bible says so. I could go on and on.

These attitudes are not universal but popular enough among Evangelicals to make them a viable constituency for Republicans. Their current craze is trans women, gender-affirming medical care, etc. They think it’s a winning issue for them. It is the ONLY ad they are running for Trump during NFL games. I saw it again today during the Lions/Cowboys game.


Yes, and they are correct in opposing that - gay marriage is not correct. They cannot be married in really any cultural tradition, and the purpose of marriage isn't just navigating some contractual arrangements between couples, but it's about encouraging family growth.

Growing up with two parents of the same gender, or growing up with a transgender parent, will cause psychosocial damage to the kids, who will themselves probably be more likely to lack positive moral formation. Of course, the next demand will be to provide evidence of this claim, and the only reputable evidence must come from an approved social science department of some University that was invented by pupils of the Frankfurt school and has maintained that tradition, :lol:.

So, your own family is correct - y ou should have a more positive view towards them. Of course, I can't ask you to agree with them - I am not that extreme of an optimist - but it would be beneficial for you to begin learning the nuances of their position and trying to be informed.

As you get older, y our views may change and ripen.

Also good on the Lions!
#15327135
Verv wrote:It was a word salad, which has become a common criticism of her delivery and speaking.

I heard it claimed elsewhere that the original answer could have been even worse than the initial one that was edited and aired, but it is unlikely we will ever have anything except the initial word salad clip.

As many also believe that Trump is verbose and a magnet for controversy, I think the next four years, regardless of who wins, will be very interesting.


If you pay attention it's clear what she says. She's trying to recall facts and form a coherent argument. Trump on the other hand is unconstrained by any thought process. It makes him look confident, but it also makes him look like a moron. Apparently his followers cannot tell.

As for Trump being a "magnet for controversy". He's a presidential candidate, hence people have to take him seriously. If he does what he says in his tweets, the American republic is history. Face it.
#15327136
Hakeer wrote:They oppose both gay marriage and gay couples adopting children, fearing they would turn the kid into a homosexual. They think people “choose” to become homosexual. They believe that homosexual acts in the privacy of their own bedroom is a “sin” because the Bible says so. I could go on and on.

I totally understand why people feel homosexuals should be executed. Such beliefs seem totally natural to me.

If you believe in the Bible or in Islam then why wouldn't you think that people who engage in homosexuality should be executed or at the very least, be severely punished. Such behaviour should never be tolerated. What I don't get, is how these people can be opposed to polygamy and sex slavery. Both the Bible and Islam clearly teach that these are good. The Liberals tell me that I must have respect for people of different religions. And I do. I have deep respect for real Mormons, not the modern day phonyies like Mitt Romney. And I have enormous respect for true persons of faith like Osama Bin Laden and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
#15327140
Hakeer wrote:Catching up. Mike Johnson said today that non-citizens are going to vote in the election. He also said Republicans are not trying to undermine the integrity of our electoral system. Pence had some moral integrity. This man does not. Do not expect him to honor his Constitutional duty to certify the election.


Sowing unfounded doubt so people like @Verv can eat it up.

In other news, some of our resident trumpers have disappeared. I'd bet they will resurface after the election and pretend nothing ever happened. However, it will not be forgotten that they are weasels.
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