National debt… - Page 19 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15327211
Hakeer wrote:If a few go to prison for tax evasion, that would be a good start.

They don't have to evade, they can just avoid -- you know, the way you avoid even the minimal obligation of your property taxes.
As I have said a few times, it would take international cooperation to really screw them royally, but we could hit them hard with tax on income, corporate, estate that could not be completely avoided.

Good luck with that.

The only way to make the billionaires pay is to make them repay some of the wealth that government gives them: land titles, IP monopolies, bank licenses, corporate limited liability, oil and mineral rights, and broadcast spectrum allocations. If they had to pay a fair price for those privileges to get them, instead of getting them as tax-funded subsidies, they would pay.
Part of the problem is that too many people have capitulated and don’t bother to vote.

With the Supreme Court stacked by Mitch McConnell to always toe the Republican line -- now including blanket immunity for all crimes, including treason, committed by a Republican president while in office -- what is the point?
#15327212
Hakeer wrote:I am not talking about tax loopholes. They would go to prison for not paying what they are legally obligated to pay.

Billionaire Howard Hughes legally paid no income tax for decades at a stretch.
As I also said, we can tax other things in addition to their income. We tax their corporations, their estate, their possessions, and if necessary a “wealth tax” that hits every asset they’ve got.

Every asset, that is, except the land titles and IP monopolies whose exorbitant subsidization is in your own narrow financial interest....
It can be some combination of all these taxes to get the amount of revenue we need to meet our budget.

As long as you escape unscathed, of course...
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By Hakeer
#15327213
Truth To Power wrote:They don't have to evade, they can just avoid -- you know, the way you avoid even the minimal obligation of your property taxes.

Good luck with that.

The only way to make the billionaires pay is to make them repay some of the wealth that government gives them: land titles, IP monopolies, bank licenses, corporate limited liability, oil and mineral rights, and broadcast spectrum allocations. If they had to pay a fair price for those privileges to get them, instead of getting them as tax-funded subsidies, they would pay.

With the Supreme Court stacked by Mitch McConnell to always toe the Republican line -- now including blanket immunity for all crimes, including treason, committed by a Republican president while in office -- what is the point?


I like that idea.

And when you have a Supreme Court this corrupt, you are justified to take extreme steps to resolve the problem. Stacking the court. Term limits. Impeach Thomas. Constitutional amendment. Whatever the hell it takes.

Someone today said that, if Trump is elected and Thomas & Alito retire, we will have a Trumpster Supreme Court until at least 2055.
#15327317
QatzelOk wrote:No one in this thread has proven that the West is not sinking into national bankruptcies. Most posters, like you Spesh, simply engaged in character attacks in order to change the subject.


What bankruptcy court does a nation report to? Do they file Chapter 13 and figure out a payment plan with their creditors?

Seriously, weren't you an econ major? Did they not teach you the difference between individual and sovereign debt?
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By Hakeer
#15327365
SpecialOlympian wrote:What bankruptcy court does a nation report to? Do they file Chapter 13 and figure out a payment plan with their creditors?

Seriously, weren't you an econ major? Did they not teach you the difference between individual and sovereign debt?


Just a quick stock market note. There has been a panic selling spree on KLAC the last two days. I “lost” about $150K. It will bottom out soon and I will buy about another $30K. I predict it will run up $150 per share by the end of the year.
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By Indi
#15327370
Until enough voters recognize that the debt issue will NOT be resolved by elected politicians without the use of force, it will only grow worse.
And by force, what I am suggesting is for enough people to come together and work out a reasonable and rational fix which voters can be brought to demand their elected representatives implement.
Voters, IMO, are the primary problem which has only been exacerbated by our governments use of a fiat currency.
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By Hakeer
#15327371
Indi wrote:Until enough voters recognize that the debt issue will NOT be resolved by elected politicians without the use of force, it will only grow worse.
And by force, what I am suggesting is for enough people to come together and work out a reasonable and rational fix which voters can be brought to demand their elected representatives implement.
Voters, IMO, are the primary problem which has only been exacerbated by our governments use of a fiat currency.


Politicians won’t act until they think it will affect their next reelection. And voters will not put pressure on them until they feel the pain personally, financially. That won’t happen until we get closer to 2033 when the trust funds run dry. I don’t expect anything substantial before then.
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By Indi
#15327376
Hakeer wrote:Politicians won’t act until they think it will affect their next reelection. And voters will not put pressure on them until they feel the pain personally, financially. That won’t happen until we get closer to 2033 when the trust funds run dry. I don’t expect anything substantial before then.

I don't expect them to allow the trust funds to run dry. The FICA tax is applied to income up to $168,600 this year and will apply to income up to $176,100 next year. I haven't seen what they will raise it to for 2026 yet, probably around $183,000.
I'm open to discussing change to improve the lives of all, and IMO the tax code is the best place to accomplish that.
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By Hakeer
#15327391
Indi wrote:I don't expect them to allow the trust funds to run dry. The FICA tax is applied to income up to $168,600 this year and will apply to income up to $176,100 next year. I haven't seen what they will raise it to for 2026 yet, probably around $183,000.
I'm open to discussing change to improve the lives of all, and IMO the tax code is the best place to accomplish that.


I probably won’t be alive to see it, but it will be a monumental political fight, and the outcome will depend on which party has the most leverage at the time. Picture the gamesmanship and brinksmanship to shutdown everything that the Republicans create every time the debt ceiling must be raised. It will be exponentially greater than that. They won’t pass up this great opportunity to virtually wreck Medicare and Social Security. I think they already have some kind of freakin’ voucher system proposed in their Project 2025. They will piously invoke the national debt as their defense for their radical proposals, while staunchly blocking any attempt by Democrats to tax billionaires.
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By Indi
#15327393
Hakeer wrote:I probably won’t be alive to see it, but it will be a monumental political fight, and the outcome will depend on which party has the most leverage at the time. Picture the gamesmanship and brinksmanship to shutdown everything that the Republicans create every time the debt ceiling must be raised. It will be exponentially greater than that. They won’t pass up this great opportunity to virtually wreck Medicare and Social Security. I think they already have some kind of freakin’ voucher system proposed in their Project 2025. They will piously invoke the national debt as their defense for their radical proposals, while staunchly blocking any attempt by Democrats to tax billionaires.

If we wait for a political party to resolve the debt issue, then all human kind will no longer be alive to see it happen.
Political forums, IMO, are nothing more than a total waste of time if WE don't start discussing and looking for reasoned and rational solutions to governing issues, and then electing politicians who will represent their constituents in bringing about changes a majority of voters, without regard to party, have agreed on.
Am I the only one who works with a spreadsheet to try and find workable solutions?
User avatar
By Hakeer
#15327395
Indi wrote:If we wait for a political party to resolve the debt issue, then all human kind will no longer be alive to see it happen.
Political forums, IMO, are nothing more than a total waste of time if WE don't start discussing and looking for reasoned and rational solutions to governing issues, and then electing politicians who will represent their constituents in bringing about changes a majority of voters, without regard to party, have agreed on.
Am I the only one who works with a spreadsheet to try and find workable solutions?


The CBO has world-class economists (until Trump replaces them with political hacks) with their spreadsheets, forecasts, reports, and alarms about the national debt and pending crisis in 2030’s over Social Security and Medicare. The issue with Congress is not a lack of data. It’s that raising taxes and/or cutting spending are not attractive options for re-election. They will put off the issue until it hits them in the face 2033.
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By QatzelOk
#15327403
SpecialOlympian wrote:What bankruptcy court does a nation report to? ...


Ireland was "bankrupt" when it experience the Great Famines.

Ukraine is currently bankrupt.

Most of Western Europe was bankrupt before they were bombed in WW2.

So the "bankruptcy court" is the Central Banksters, and the "trial" is by fire.
#15327525
Hakeer wrote:Just a quick stock market note. There has been a panic selling spree on KLAC the last two days. I “lost” about $150K. It will bottom out soon and I will buy about another $30K. I predict it will run up $150 per share by the end of the year.


Only a million shares traded a day? No wonder it has such price volatility.

You said you might not make it to the 2033 election. Don't invest invest in the market as a retirement hobby. You don't even need this volatility if you might not survive a decade. If you've got the cash, make use of gift exemptions. I've seen too many people live into their 90's while their kids are still working in their 60's and they don't have a clue what to spend their millions on.

Just stumbled back from the bar so don't take anything I said as serious advice. I know nothing of your financial situation.

QatzelOk wrote:Ireland was "bankrupt" when it experience the Great Famines.


Yes, I remember when the Free Irish Republic parliament ran out of money to buy potatoes. Thank you for your contribution, Qatz.
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By Hakeer
#15327528
SpecialOlympian wrote:Only a million shares traded a day? No wonder it has such price volatility.

You said you might not make it to the 2033 election. Don't invest invest in the market as a retirement hobby. You don't even need this volatility if you might not survive a decade. If you've got the cash, make use of gift exemptions. I've seen too many people live into their 90's while their kids are still working in their 60's and they don't have a clue what to spend their millions on.

Just stumbled back from the bar so don't take anything I said as serious advice. I know nothing of your financial situation.



Yes, I remember when the Free Irish Republic parliament ran out of money to buy potatoes. Thank you for your contribution, Qatz.


I get what you’re saying, but my family situation is complicated. I got in at $675 per share. I predict it goes to $800+ in 3 months.
#15327531
I'm a buy and hold index fund guy so we'll have to disagree there. I'm not going to put in the work to try and outguess a market that can be irrational longer than I can be solvent.

Hey, look at prices on options if the price keeps going down. Or just hedge your bets.
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By Hakeer
#15327547
SpecialOlympian wrote:I'm a buy and hold index fund guy so we'll have to disagree there. I'm not going to put in the work to try and outguess a market that can be irrational longer than I can be solvent.

Hey, look at prices on options if the price keeps going down. Or just hedge your bets.


Index funds don’t suck as bad as bonds, but they do suck. Yeah, you’re buying all the blue-chip stocks, but you’re also buying a whole bunch of dogs you’d never consider buying if, as I do, you only buy high quality stocks.
#15327597
Low diversification leads to business risk. A company can unexpectedly shit the bed.

Like I’m happy for you but saying “just pick the stocks that go up in value” is about as useful as saying “The way to make money at gambling is by winning.”
User avatar
By Hakeer
#15327618
SpecialOlympian wrote:Low diversification leads to business risk. A company can unexpectedly shit the bed.

Like I’m happy for you but saying “just pick the stocks that go up in value” is about as useful as saying “The way to make money at gambling is by winning.”


I didn’t say pick stocks that go up in value. I said pick quality stocks (on fundamentals) and hold, unless the fundamentals — not the price — declines. For example, I sold all my Intel stock years ago. KLAC has been beating it. Not many investors follow this strategy. They panic and sold KLAC. Applied to index funds, if you just buy the 20 best quality stocks in the S&P, you will beat the index.
#15327829
20 stocks is not enough to diversify away business risk. Studies done on Modern Portfolio Theory recommend a minimum of 30+.

Listen, we've gone over this before. You clearly have a higher risk tolerance than the average investor. And as I've said before, different people need different things from their money (income vs. growth) depending on where they are in life and their risk tolerance. Again, I'm happy your strategy worked for you, but there is no objectively best strategy and it's weird that you take it personally that anyone would suggest anything else. Like, I wouldn't recommend to a 75 year old lady that she go all in on growth stocks unless she had ample funds and a desire to leave an inheritance.

Also top 20 stocks include Tesla which as far as I know has terrible fundamentals. I would not be surprised if a massive class action lawsuit against them for the Cybertruck was filed in the next year or two. I would legit not be surprised if states started declaring them illegal to operate on public roads because some parts are literally glued on. It's also almost uninsurable as a car, except through Tesla. But as they say: "The market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

On top of that, you have just basically suggested an S&P 20 index fund. Maybe it's time for you to become a fund manager?
#15327830
Hakeer wrote:I didn’t say pick stocks that go up in value. I said pick quality stocks (on fundamentals) and hold, unless the fundamentals — not the price — declines. For example, I sold all my Intel stock years ago. KLAC has been beating it. Not many investors follow this strategy. They panic and sold KLAC. Applied to index funds, if you just buy the 20 best quality stocks in the S&P, you will beat the index.

It takes a lot of business knowledge and research to know which are the best stocks and beat the index. Many, many hedge funds and mutual funds can't do it. Warren Buffett can do it, members of the regular public can't do it unless they get lucky.
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