[Pants-of-dog]

If October 2023 is included in the pre war amount, then the numbers are inaccurate.

This also ignores food stopped by the IDF on internal checkpoints. For example, truckloads of food were allowed into Gaza and then stopped from entering northern Gaza. To include these truckloads in the amount that supposedly went to starving Gazans would also be inaccurate.

And the pattern of converging lines of evidence all pointing to the same conclusion is still being ignored.

[wat0n]

If October 2023 is included in the pre war amount, then the numbers are inaccurate.

Then let's see 2022 and 2023 until September:



For 2022, there were 26554/365 = 72.8 truckloads/day of food imports into Gaza.



For January 2023 until September 2023, there were 20562/273 = 75.3 truckloads/day of food imports into Gaza.

This also ignores food stopped by the IDF on internal checkpoints. For example, truckloads of food were allowed into Gaza and then stopped from entering northern Gaza. To include these truckloads in the amount that supposedly went to starving Gazans would also be inaccurate.

You mean those checkpoints that are surrounding areas where active combat is taking place?

Also, if food isn't reaching Gazans, why is it that the IPC's projections have been wildly off mark?

And the pattern of converging lines of evidence all pointing to the same conclusion is still being ignored.

No such pattern exists.

You lose your strongest case for your claim and the pattern is gone.

[Pants-of-dog]

The IPC projections were quite accurate.

The percentage of people suffering from phase 3 famine or worse is at 86%, which is not that much lower than the projected 96%.

It also disproves the claim that Gaza has the same levels of food access as before the war.

And the pattern of converging lines of evidence is still being ignored.

[wat0n]

No, they were not

Their projections of people facing phase 5 were way off, and in the end even the Famine Review Committee had to push back.

Also, imports data published by the UN itself does not lie. The distribution issues, which nobody denies, are a result of combat and not a policy.

[Pants-of-dog]

So we are now walking back the claim that Gaza is receiving enough food.

There is a famine happening right now according to the evidence that supposedly shows that the projections are off.

The IDF certainly has policies about stopping food at internal checkpoints, and we have discussed them in this thread.

And the pattern of converging lines of evidence showing genocide is still being ignored. Holocaust deniers also refuse to address the overarching pattern.

[wat0n]

Your nonsense isn't being ignored, it's been debunked which is different.

The Famine Review Committee also said explicitly back in June that it could not say there's starvation in Gaza.

One of the reasons for evacuating civilians from combat areas is that this allows them greater access to food.

Note that the fact that food imports are at the pre-war levels shows there's already enough food supply in Gaza.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is illogical to use a piece of evidence to disprove a projection and then completely ignore the exact same piece of evidence when it shows that there is famine in Gaza and the current food access is not enough.

Selectively ignoring one’s own evidence is called cherry picking and is a fallacy.

And the pattern of converging lines of evidence is being ignored, as Holocaust deniers do.

[wat0n]

And more nonsense, the Famine Review Committee is not the IPC but an oversight body.

IPC's projections are based on assumptions that can obviously be criticized and indeed they have been wrong.

And now we have you making a false equivalence between debunking a blood libel and Holocaust denial. Typical.

[Pants-of-dog]

Completely ignoring the arguments is not logical.

The FRC is showing evidence that there is widespread food insecurity in Gaza right now. This directly contradicts the claim that Gaza is receiving enough food. The food may be in Gaza, but if it is all stopped at internal IDF checkpoints and not being released, it is still deliberate famine,

And there is still no counter argument to the fact that many different lines of evidence all converge on the same conclusion.

[wat0n]

Food insecurity isn't the same as starvation.

It'd be rare to fight an urban battle that does not feature food insecurity. I've never heard of anything like that, actually.

[Pants-of-dog]

Between September and October 2024, the whole territory is classified in IPC Phase 4 (Emergency). About 1.84 million people across the Gaza Strip are experiencing high levels of acute food insecurity classified in IPC Phase 3 (Crisis) or above, including nearly 133,000 people facing catastrophic food insecurity (IPC Phase 5) and 664,000, in IPC Phase 4 (Emergency). Acute Malnutrition is at serious levels (IPC AMN Phase 3), ten times higher than before the escalation of the hostilities.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-p ... (Emergency).

Note the bit about how the food situation is dramatically worse than it was before the war.

[Pants-of-dog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consilience

In science and history, consilience (also convergence of evidence or concordance of evidence) is the principle that evidence from independent, unrelated sources can "converge" on strong conclusions. That is, when multiple sources of evidence are in agreement, the conclusion can be very strong even when none of the individual sources of evidence is significantly so on its own. Most established scientific knowledge is supported by a convergence of evidence: if not, the evidence is comparatively weak, and there will probably not be a strong scientific consensus.

The claim of genocide in Gaza shows consilience.

[wat0n]

I will note that your convergence of evidence is not such when your best evidence is not such.

I will also note that you have not shown that the IPC's projections were accurate.

At last, I will further note that nobody has said Gaza's food situation is as good as before the war. Gaza's food situation has worsened since Hamas started this war, not due to lack of food imports into Gaza - as evidenced by UN's data - but due to the fact that active combat makes distribution difficult. This also does not fit the genocide claims, this is just the result of war.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is difficult to entertain the notion that famine has not been shown when the evidence showing how the projections were supposedly incorrect also show widespread malnutrition, and actual famine among large sectors of the population. It is either a blatant attempt to ignore one’s own evidence, or stupidity.

The famine is also due to things like Israeli forces deliberately targeting food production in Gaza.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-03-07/

Again, it is ridiculous to argue that widespread malnutrition and deliberate attacks on food production and deliberately targeting the main UN food agency and stopping food at internal and border checkpoints are all coincidence and do not indicate famine tactics.

[wat0n]

I already shared you with an example of how IPC's projections were just wrong.

Fakhri is a lawyer, not an expert on food or agriculture and your own source states his claims cannot be independently verified.

Stopping trucks from reaching a zone under active combat isn't all that strange, it's part of deconfliction.

Basically, all the things you've mentioned are a result of active combat.

[Pants-of-dog]

Again, it is all just a giant coincidence that several lines of evidence come together to show the Israeli government and IDF are using starvation as a weapon, and this combines with several lines of evidence to show these same two groups are committing genocide.

Why should we believe it is all just a big coincidence?

[wat0n]

Because all those "lines of evidence" can be accounted by the fact there's a war.

It's not that complicated. Interestingly, the same thing has happened elsewhere - like in the battle for Mosul, just sticking to offensive actions taken by Western countries - and nobody claimed it's part of a starvation plan. It's just accepted as being part of war.

[Pants-of-dog]

If the mere context of a war is enough to refute the claim of genocide, then the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide were not genocides.

Since we know they were genocides, this refutes the claim that a war context refutes claims of genocide.

[wat0n]

That is a nice non-sequitur you got going there.

[Deutschmania]

And now I have found out about the case of the callous killing of a young teenaged girl , named Bana Laboum , by an IDF soldier , whom shot through her bedroom window .

The killing of Ayşenur Ezgi Eygi, a 26-year-old Turkish-American activist, in the West Bank town of Beita on Sept. 6 rightly garnered extensive international attention. But there was another fatal shooting by Israeli forces that day — only two hours after Eygi’s killing, and just a few miles away — which barely received any coverage at all: that of Bana Laboum, a 13-year-old Palestinian from the village of Qaryut, who was shot dead while looking out of her bedroom window.

At around 3 p.m., Israeli settlers, who residents say were armed with rocks and Molotov cocktails, approached the houses on the outskirts of Qaryut. The young people from the village, which is located near Nablus in the northern occupied West Bank, went out to confront the settlers, before Israeli security forces arrived and the settlers left. But rather than leaving Qaryut, the soldiers then began chasing the Palestinian youths. “They entered the village, firing tear gas and stun grenades and a single shot of live ammunition — the one that killed my daughter,” Bana’s father, Amjad Laboum, told +972 during a visit to the village last week.

According to Amjad and other eyewitnesses from Qaryut, and as confirmed by a short video taken by a resident which +972 has seen, the Israeli forces — who appear to have included officers from the Border Police — were standing at the end of a small alley about 100 meters from the Laboum family’s house when one of them fired the shot. From the vantage point where they were positioned, next to a concrete wall, it is possible to see the small window of Bana’s room, which she shared with some of her siblings.

Amjad was standing on his porch at the time, around 4 p.m., while the rest of the family were upstairs. “I saw four or five soldiers moving from place to place, but then one knelt down and aimed his weapon,” he recounted. “We thought he fired at the boys in the street. If I understood that he wanted to shoot at the house, I wouldn’t have left my children inside. We thought they were safe there.” Amjad didn’t see the soldier open fire, but when he heard the gunshot and the shattering of glass he ran up to his children’s room. “Bana stumbled toward me and collapsed, bleeding from her chest” he said. “I held her, and we rushed her in an ambulance to a clinic in [the nearby town of] Qabalan and from there to the hospital in Nablus. But she had already taken her last breath on the street outside our house.

“The geography of the area doesn’t allow for mistakes: it was intentional,” Amjad asserted. “The sniper had a difficult angle, but he fired directly at the window. There was daylight, and it wasn’t in an open place. I want justice for my daughter in order to protect other children. I don’t want any [parent] to face such a situation.” Painted lilac, Bana’s room consists of four single beds with matching linens. Hers was in the corner next to the window. Since her killing, the bed has become a kind of memorial to Bana, with her family placing pictures of her beside her school uniform and beloved stuffed animals. “She was supposed to start ninth grade,” Amjad said. “There was always a smile on her face.”

In the living room, Amjad gestured to the TV screen, where Al Jazeera was broadcasting live from Gaza. “We’ve been seeing what’s happening there for 11 months now,” he said. “I’m sorry for the harsh words, but Gaza gave us strength. At least I buried my daughter whole; in Gaza, children are buried in pieces.” Qaryut’s 3,000-strong community has long borne the brunt of the Israeli occupation. In 1978 and 1983, respectively, Israel seized land from the village by military order to build the settlements of Shilo and Eli. The Palestinians of Qaryut were cut off from most of their agricultural land, and later from the road connecting Nablus and Ramallah. “Today, we are not allowed to access our lands,” Amjad lamented. “We used to have 27,000 dunams, and now there are only 3,500 left.”

In December 2021, settlers broke into the home of an elderly couple in the village, demolished their belongings, and beat them severely. Just four months later, a settler was documented brandishing a gun during an attack on residents working their land. And for the past two years, settlers have received military protection to visit a spring in Qaryut every Friday — an area that Palestinian residents have been prevented from accessing entirely since the start of the Gaza war.

And it’s not just settlements, which are illegal under international law, that are suffocating the village. Qaryut and the nearby villages of Jalud and Qusra are also surrounded by some of the most extreme Israeli outposts in the West Bank, which are illegal even under Israeli law, though they are nevertheless often connected to state infrastructure.

On the day of Bana’s killing, Mohammed Musa, a 28-year-old father of two from Qaryut, was severely wounded by Israeli settlers who raided the village from the direction of Shilo and Eli. “We heard there was a settler attack, so I went down to my sister’s house on the edge of the village,” he told +972. “I saw the settlers, who had used their shirts to cover their faces. Some were carrying rocks, others Molotov cocktails.” As the settlers approached another family’s house, Mohammed saw that one of them was about to light a Molotov. “I immediately thought we would have another Dawabsheh incident [referring to the settler firebombing of a home in the Palestinian village of Duma in 2015, which killed 18-month-old Ali Dawabsheh and both of his parents]. I went over to stop him, and then another settler behind him threw a large rock at my head, knocking me to the ground.”

Mohammed was taken to hospital in Nablus, where he remained for three days and underwent facial surgery. He hasn’t been able to work since. “I lost 10 teeth, and since then I can only drink juice or soup,” he told +972. “Each tooth replacement costs NIS 1,600 [around $400]. I don’t know where I’m going to get the money.”

Despite the lethal escalation in military and settler violence, Amjad emphasized that he and the other villagers will never cower to their oppressors. “They think that if they kill the little ones, they will break the adults — but that’s not true,” he said. “We are a very calm village, and we never have problems. I’ve never attacked anyone. What did they achieve by killing my daughter? Did I leave my house, my village? On the contrary.” https://www.972mag.com/bana-laboum-qaryut-israeli-soldiers-settlers/

.... On Saturday, mourners gathered in the West Bank town of Qaryut, near Nablus, for the funeral of 13-year-old Bana Laboum, who was also shot and killed the day before after Israeli forces arrived in her village. Her father, 47-year-old Amjad Bakar, knelt beside his daughter’s freshly filled grave.

Bakar and the Palestinian Health Ministry said the Israeli military shot Laboum on Friday through the window of her home, after showing up amid a confrontation between Palestinian residents and Jewish settlers.

In a statement Friday, the IDF acknowledged opening fire and said it received a report “regarding a Palestinian girl who was killed by shots in the area.”

“An initial inquiry indicates that the Israeli security forces that were dispatched to the scene operated to disperse the riot in the area, including firing shots into the air,” the statement said, adding that “the incident is under review.” https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_east/2024-09-07/us-woman-killed-west-bank-protest-un-investigation-15099341.html

A Palestinian girl was killed by Israeli army gunfire Friday in the northern occupied West Bank, Anadolu Agency reports.

The death came hours after the killing of a Turkish-American activist.

The Palestinian Health Ministry reported the death of Bana Amjad Bakar Laboum, 13, and said she was killed by Israeli forces in Qaryut, south of Nablus.

The Palestinian Red Crescent Society confirmed that teams transported Bana, who had been shot in the chest.

Paramedic Youssef Dayriah from the town of Aqraba told Anadolu that the girl was shot in the heart while looking out of a window at her family’s home.

He noted her injuries coincided with attacks by the army and illegal settlers in the village. facebook sharing buttontwitter sharing buttonreddit sharing buttonwhatsapp sharing buttonemail sharing buttonsharethis sharing button
A Palestinian girl was killed by Israeli army gunfire Friday in the northern occupied West Bank, Anadolu Agency reports.

The death came hours after the killing of a Turkish-American activist.

The Palestinian Health Ministry reported the death of Bana Amjad Bakar Laboum, 13, and said she was killed by Israeli forces in Qaryut, south of Nablus.

The Palestinian Red Crescent Society confirmed that teams transported Bana, who had been shot in the chest.

Paramedic Youssef Dayriah from the town of Aqraba told Anadolu that the girl was shot in the heart while looking out of a window at her family’s home.

He noted her injuries coincided with attacks by the army and illegal settlers in the village.

READ: Israel army destroys 25 kilometres of Jenin streets

Clashes erupted between Israeli forces and residents in Qaryut following Friday prayers, during which the army used live ammunition, sound bombs and tear gas.

Earlier Friday, Turkish American activist Aysenur Ezgi Eygi was killed by Israeli soldiers in the town of Beita, in Nablus.

Fouad Nafea, director of Rafidia Government Hospital in Nablus, told Anadolu that she arrived at the facility with a head wound from gunfire. Despite efforts to resuscitate her, she did not survive.

Witnesses previously reported to Anadolu that Israeli forces fired live fire at Palestinians participating in a protest against settlement expansion in Beita.

Tensions have escalated throughout the occupied West Bank as Israel continues an assault on the Gaza Strip, which has killed nearly 40,900 Palestinians, mostly women and children, since Oct. 7.

At least 691 victims have since been killed and more than 5,700 injured by Israeli fire in the West Bank, according to the Health Ministry. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240907-israeli-army-kills-palestinian-girl-in-west-bank-health-ministry/