[Hakeer]

@wat0n wrote:



The issue is since when did the USA ever believe in total democracy?

Every gain in the USA regarding voting has been hard won. Every time. I already posted Fannie Lou Hamer and the Civil Rights Movement of 1964. So? The Puerto Ricans can't vote for president. BTW, on the Puerto Rican ballot they put the vote between Harris and Trump as a symbolic gesture that did not have any counting weight. Many voted for Harris symbolically. Even the statehooders. So statehood is not in the future for Puerto Rico with Trump in the white House. He said he would be willing to trade Puerto Rico for Greenland. It might happen. His economy might tank and to bail himself out he might sell us off to somebody.

And what gives me great Hope is how the Puerto Ricans have woken up. Now it is about 2028 and 2032 and beyond. No more hiding heads in the sand regarding racists in the Republican party. That is for sure.

I like how Mexico is going and how Puerto Rico is going. So for me? I am satisfied.

For the people in the USA living in that soon to be difficult situation? Many times difficulty develops strength of character. After all, I have been a minority voter, an ethnic minority, and been in the losing political position almost my entire life. It is not about winning in the end. It is about resisting what you know is not good, not true, and not ethical.

In the end the only people worth dealing with are people with integrity and with a good attitude about life and their fellow human beings. Not about raw power plays, revenge, greed, and lies.

All shakes out over time. That is the power of struggle in the first place.

We have a flawed democracy with electoral college, gerrymandering, dark money, Senate rules, and more. No denying that. But we had a free and fair election yesterday, and a peaceful transfer of power THIS time in January. We can be proud of that. America is not trash.

I just watched Kamala’s concession speech. She was gracious. Did not trash Trump. But she did say fight, fight, fight. We will be back in 2026 and 2028. Democrats are sad today, but it was an inspiring speech.

[JohnRawls]

15 million less votes for Dems, while barely 3 million less for Trump. For 18 million votes less in total.

83.3% vs 16.6% distributed losses.

Not quite rationally proportionate.

I tried to answer this couple of times but server is getting 500 and 504 constantly NGINX errors but lets go 1 more time.

Mathematical analysis was done after 2020 election and it followed what you would expect. If you create a graph of turnout on one axis and result on the other and use voting points as points on the graph then the electoral graph will look like a standard distribution that tilts depending on the turnout. If you get that then its fair election and this is very hard to falsify since it would require access to every voting station and every numbers and then it to be perfectly synchronized which is not possible honestly.

Here is an example of falsified/rigged elections in Georgia circa 2024:



Here is the Russian duma 2021 election graph falsified:



And this is how not rigged/manipulated/bought elections look like:





More if you wanna read on it: https://europeelects.eu/2023/11/13/russ ... th-graphs/

[Tainari88]

We have a flawed democracy with electoral college, gerrymandering, dark money, Senate rules, and more. No denying that. But we had a free and fair election yesterday, and a peaceful transfer of power THIS time in January. We can be proud of that. America is not trash.

I just watched Kamala’s concession speech. She was gracious. Did not trash Trump. But she did say fight, fight, fight. We will be back in 2026 and 2028. Democrats are sad today, but it was an inspiring speech.

@Hakeer I do not say America is trash. What I am saying that the USA has not been about democracy with Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands, Solomon Islands, Palau, Marshall Islands, and every other place they have used as an Empire. They weren't fair with Native Americans, African Americans, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, Women before the Suffrage movement. People living in poverty and many immigrants in the past. Why? Because the people in power did not want that to happen for those groups.

It is not different in behavior than other highly unfair, and unjust societies. They created a constitution that they would disobey when it contradicted the powerful group making decisions. That is not different than every other power group of human in the past of human history. It is not exceptional.

It is hard to hear but fascism arrived today in the USA in an official capacity. Just like it arrived in other human societies. Accept that. It is not a shining example of democracy. They lied to the people and said the election was stolen. And that Trump had won. They knew he had lost in 2020. They used violence to try to overturn it. Now they won a legitimate election and are happy the Democrats are not going to moan and groan about stolen election shit and storm a Trump sweep in all branches of government.

They failed deeply to hold on to power because internally they failed to allow a true competition in ideas within their own party. Why? Fear of not being in power and being able to feed off of corporate bribes. Being cowardly sellouts.

How are they then different from undemocratic bribed out Third World corrupt governments? Not much different than those.

If you allow your government to corrupt other nations' governments in order to pervert them for your side don't you think those chickens are going to come home to roost?

What you do to others in this world you wind up doing at home. That is the truth.

[Rich]

This seems to be a fantastic victory for the truth and against the Democrat liars.

It seems that Biden's inflation expansion bill has cost the Democrats dear. The contempt the Liberals showed for ordinary people by calling it the inflation reduction bill beggars belief. It deliberately drove up prices to support the Liberals phoney green agenda. The first driver of inflation was the Liberals Lockdown madness. Pumping money into the economy, like there's no tomorrow, when the factories stand idle is the most obvious recipe for inflation. In 2020, the Liberals sought to enslave us to the Pharmaceutical- Sickness industrial complex while seeking to bring low the American and British economies in order to bring down Donald Trump and Boris Johnson's Government. And then they try and gaslight us into believing the inflation was Trump's fault.

And then these demented Liberal cretins call Trump's supporters stupid.

[annatar1914]

@wat0n :

I'm doing just fine, if anything I do like some of the things the GOP has to offer and not just on Israel.

Everyone likes something everyone else does in their interest. And let's get real : its about Israel.

In fact, Nikki Haley would have done at least as well as Trump did and I have no problems with the prospect of a Haley presidency (on the contrary).

Have you got a boner for Nikki Haley? Owe her money? There is no way she would have done as well. And in any case being an establishment Republican, her role in any campaign would be to mirror the Democratic " opponent" and solidly run for second placd.

But tell me, how does reelecting a candidate who tried to pressure state officials to "find" votes for him set a good precedent for democracy?

Are you kidding? That sort of thing is an integral part of American politics and always has been. Reason?

The Money Power... Capitalism.

" find me votes" = " i wont give up until i absolutely have to".

Look where it got the asshole: right back into the White House, didn't it?

[wat0n]

@wat0n :



Everyone likes something everyone else does in their interest. And let's get real : its about Israel.

Not just about Israel.

Woke progressives are finally seeing that the rest of society at the very least doesn't value their worldview, this message would be sent regardless of which GOP candidate ran.

One example: It turns out prop 36 was voted with 70% in California. What's this proposition about?

California Proposition 36, the Drug and Theft Crime Penalties and Treatment-Mandated Felonies Initiative, was on the ballot in California as an initiated state statute on November 5, 2024.[1][2] The ballot measure was approved.

A "yes" vote supported making changes to Proposition 47 approved in 2014, including:

classifying certain drug offenses as treatment-mandated felonies;
increasing penalties for certain drug crimes by increasing sentence lengths and level of crime;
requiring courts to warn individuals convicted of distributing illegal drugs of their potential future criminal liability if they distribute deadly drugs like fentanyl, heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine; and
increasing sentences for theft based on the value of the property stolen.

A "no" vote opposed this initiative that makes changes to Proposition 47 (2014), thereby maintaining certain drug and theft crimes as misdemeanors.

Even largely Democrat California is tired of woke policies, in this case, woke approaches to dealing with crime. Voters are right in supporting these rollbacks to prop 47.

Have you got a boner for Nikki Haley? Owe her money? There is no way she would have done as well. And in any case being an establishment Republican, her role in any campaign would be to mirror the Democratic " opponent" and solidly run for second placd.

Haley was polling better than Trump against any Dem for the presidential election before dropping out.

Also, Trump IS an establishment Republican, to the point other candidates (like De Santis) were trying to be shitty copies of him. This is not 2016.

Are you kidding? That sort of thing is an integral part of American politics and always has been. Reason?

The Money Power... Capitalism.

" find me votes" = " i wont give up until i absolutely have to".

Look where it got the asshole: right back into the White House, didn't it?

Lol no, it is not an integral part of American politics to have sitting presidents pressuring state officials to "find" votes (commit election fraud).

[Igor Antunov]

First of all welcome back, where have you been for the last 2 years and why is Kiev not taken yet?

Both 3 of those predictions are over the top:

1) Israel is wrapping up so to speak right now, so the whole Israel-Lebanon-Iran situation probably will die out in the next 6 months.

2) That all depends on what is exactly in the negotiations and how they go. Putin can get some re-spite out of this but it doesn't solve his economic problems and the stockpiles that were destroyed won't re-appear out of nowhere even in 5-10 years.

3) This is the most unrealistic actually, how exactly is Trump with tariffs going to help China? The general idea that China can export itself out of recession is cringy when US and Europe are introducing protectionist policies against that while being the largest consumer markets and India and some others. Trump just makes it worse.

1) eh. There is no indication that things are wrapping up. On the contrary...Iraqi and Lebanese groups are now in possession of Iranian missiles that are penetrating air defenses consistently. Net and Yahoo has the breathing room to amplify his gaza and west bank campaigns. News just got out that Palestinians won't be allowed to return to north Gaza-ever. That's 600,000 ethnically cleansed already.

2)Even the EU and Us are experienicng greater economic hardships than Russia at this moment. The fact is India and China are simply big enough to sustain and grow Russia going forward.

3)The same way trumps tariffs helped china before. By supercharging key sectors of its manufacturing and supply chain. Huawei is back for example with domestic 5nm chips and a domestic operating system. BYD is flooding the globe and most importantly China with highly competitive Chinese EV's that make Tesla vehicles and their battery tech look antiquated.

Trump is an isolationist, and JD Vance is an isolationist on steroids. Further decoupling is coming, and that benefits the new world order led by the global south. As I said, Trump's focus will be domestic. Project 2025 is looking to be very much in play and Kennedy just stated his intention to absolutely gut the FDA.

15 million less votes for Dems, while barely 3 million less for Trump. For 18 million votes less in total.

83.3% vs 16.6% distributed losses.

Not quite rationally proportionate.

This could simply imply that huge segments of Democrats absolutely despised Harris as a candidate and simply didn't go out and vote. It could also imply mass fraud in 2020. The varied fun of speculation. In fact the proportional discrepancy points to the latter. I'd believe 6-8 million refused to vote. But 15? 5-7 million fraudulent votes is doable. They might not have tried to rig it this time due to the new rules and also the gap was way too wide.

[Rugoz]

I do not say America is trash. What I am saying that the USA has not been about democracy with Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands, Solomon Islands, Palau, Marshall Islands, and every other place they have used as an Empire. They weren't fair with Native Americans, African Americans, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, Women before the Suffrage movement. People living in poverty and many immigrants in the past. Why? Because the people in power did not want that to happen for those groups.

It is not different in behavior than other highly unfair, and unjust societies. They created a constitution that they would disobey when it contradicted the powerful group making decisions. That is not different than every other power group of human in the past of human history. It is not exceptional.

I don't know why you blame the "powerful people". It's ordinary people who are racist and don't want black people or Puerto Ricans to have a vote. You have to be realistic about human nature.

[Skynet]

@JohnRawls Which predictions hit the damn reality???

Long live the 1st Emperor of America

[ingliz]

I do not say America is trash

I do.

It is as Trump would say, 'One of those shithole countries."

[Rancid]

EDIT: nevemind

[QatzelOk]

WTF are you talking about now Q? I do not like fascists. I never have.

Five seconds earlier...

You are the only fascist I would invite to my house in Mexico to go as a tourist. No other fascist I would consider. Simply because you are not a bourgeois crybaby in general. Hee hee. ...

You mention gladly "inviting a fascist into your house" ... "because he isn't a crybaby." This is a nice analogy for electing either of the two candidates (the discreet fascist, the cartoon fascist).

***

t's ordinary people who are racist

Really?

Why is mass media so racist?

Is it owned and managed by ordinary people?

Or do ordinary people learn that "racism is normal" from a commercial media that is handed down to them from the upper class leeches?

***

Not just about Israel.

Woke progressives are finally seeing that the rest of society at the very least doesn't value their worldview, this message would be sent regardless of which GOP candidate ran...

Israel is the worldview of both woke progressives and regressive colonial types in many Western countries. We get to run the world and steal from other countries... whether we're electric-car-driving lesbian vegetarians (left cartoon), or retired Futures traders wearing tweed ascots and argyle socks (right cartoon).

Beware of a cartoon-based worldview.

[Tainari88]

Five seconds earlier...



You mention gladly "inviting a fascist into your house" ... "because he isn't a crybaby." This is a nice analogy for electing either of the two candidates (the discreet fascist, the cartoon fascist).

***



Really?

Why is mass media so racist?

Is it owned and managed by ordinary people?

Or do ordinary people learn that "racism is normal" from a commercial media that is handed down to them from the upper class leeches?

***


Israel is the worldview of both woke progressives and regressive colonial types in many Western countries. We get to run the world and steal from other countries... whether we're electric-car-driving lesbian vegetarians (left cartoon), or retired Futures traders wearing tweed ascots and argyle socks (right cartoon).

Beware of a cartoon-based worldview.

Why do you interpret what I write in such distorted ways Q?

Do you know who these people are behind the scenes of PoFo? No you do not.

Did you know that @Rich used to be a Marxist? That he was the son of religious people who were very strict Christians? That he had to go to Sunday school? That he disappointed his parents by breaking away from convention? That he became an atheist? Or an agnostic and has his own beliefs? That he lives in a part of the UK that is rural and he feels betrayed by liberals in the UK? That he feels like the rural country English people are being backstabbed by two faced urban elites? That he has hardly traveled anywhere and never has had a pot to piss in financially? That if fascism attracts him it is because he thinks that it might make the people like him empowered? I fucking HUMANIZE people. Even my ideological 'enemies'. I also do not assume to know what they think and why they write the way they write.

I can tell you one thing. What Rich has wrote about the liberals and their elitism is correct. We need people who can criticize liberals. He hates Commies and socialists too. Do you see @Potemkin getting all upset because Rich doesn't like or hates Marxism? They respect each other despite all their ideological differences.

That should be what the majority of the people who write in here and disagree should be doing on a forum about the exchange of ideas.

You interpret me terribly sometimes Q. I thought you knew who I was and why I write the way I write. I was mistaken. You do not. You really misinterpret a lot about my writing. Use it as an example of what? Betraying my principles? I never have betrayed my principles.

Not ever. But I was taught long ago, that people are not cartoons on the internet. That is for alienated people who refuse to humanize people regardless of their ideological differences Q.

I see YOU. Not the cartoon version of you in Quebec. Too bad you want to use me as the example of what?

You have an important perspective to write about in here. You should do it with some respect for what diversity brings to political fora. If we all agreed it would be very boring indeed in here.

Mr. Rich is not a damn cartoon Q. He never was.

Neither are you.

You want people to follow your rules in life? They won't darling. You either learn to meet them where they are at? Or reject them as people. If you reject them as human beings? What kind of listening to your views are you going to get? That is right--you are going to get closed minds and closed hearts.

Remember the truth is if you want to understand all of humanity? The first step is to humanize their experiences.

Rich is not a damn cookie cutter man. Do I think his fascism is the right path? Of course not. But he is Rich. I am not. What do I know fully about what made him who he is today? Not much. Just what he wrote to me about in PMs over the years.

Respect people Q. Even when they might not fit your categories of cartoon fascist or real fascist.

And stop telling me who I am and using me as an example of what? Weakness on fascism? Fascists are human and they use their damaging political philosophy to seize power. You attack the center of that mentality with facts, and with due research and diligence. You do not waste time on attacking Puerto Rican women socialists living in Mexico voting for socialism and the Green party who comes from a working class background and who dedicates herself to writing and interpreting and being productive.

You do not like racism? Do what I did Q? Go and adopt a Black son and go and live with Black people of all sorts in a nation taht is under colonialism for years. And come back and talk to me about my weakness on fascism.

You piss me off with your lack of focus on the real culprits. You waste time on people you should be backing with caring and understanding.

You are very creative. You should be happy with those gifts and do something that encompasses your virtues. Not tearing down your friends in public fora.

You disappoint me.

[Tainari88]

Well, @Rancid I think Marianne Williamson hit the nail on the head of what went wrong with the Democratic Party in the election of 2024.

She is right about the Democratic Party liberal elite leadership is spot on.

They are two faced people who do not really believe in serving the working class.

It is a mess because they talked two sides of their mouth.

The Liberals are not believers in equality and they back capitalist crap.

[QatzelOk]

...

Do you know who these people are behind the scenes of PoFo? No you do not.

Did you know that @Rich used to be a Marxist? That he was the son of religious people who were very strict Christians? That he had to go to Sunday school? ...

I am far more interested in Rancid's arguments than his life story, to be honest.

Same with other posters on this site. Their lived experience is important, of course. But to focus on this, rather than their posts, is an example of ad hom (positive ad hom being just as distracting and irrelevant as negative).

***

L'Amérique pleure (America is crying)

Encore un jour à se l’ver
En même temps que le soleil
La face encore un peu poquée
D’mon quatre heures de sommeil (yeah!)
J’tire une coup’ de poffes de clope
Job done pour les vitamines
Pis un bon café à l’eau d’mope
Histoire de s’donner meilleure mine

J’prends le Florida Turnpike
Demain soir ch’t’à Montmagny
Non trucker c’pas vraiment l’Klondike
Mais tu vois du pays (yeah!)
Surtout ça t’fait réaliser
Que derrière les beaux paysages
Y’a tellement d’inégalités
Et de souffrance sur les visages

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps :
Mais comment font tous ces gens
Pour croire encore en la vie
Dans cette hypocrisie?
C’est si triste que des fois quand je rentre à la maison
Pis que j’parke mon vieux camion
J’vois toute l’Amérique qui pleure
Dans mon rétroviseur…

Moi je traîne dans ma remorque
Tous les excès d’mon époque
La surabondance surgelée
Shootée, suremballée (yeah!)
Pendant qu’les vœux pieux passent dans l’beurre
Que notre insouciance est repue
C’est dans le fond des containers
Que pourront pourrir les surplus

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Sur l’Interstate 95
Partent en fumée tous les rêves
Un char en feu dans une bretelle
Un accident mortel (yeah!)
Et au milieu de ce bouchon
Pas de respect pour la mort
Chacun son tour joue du klaxon
Tellement pressé d’aller nulle part

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Un aut’ truck stop d’autoroute
Pogné pour manger d’la ch’noute
C’est vrai que dans la soupe du jour
Y’a pu’ tellement d’amour (yeah!)
On a tué la chaleur humaine
Avec le service à la chaîne
À la télé un aut’ malade
Vient d’déclencher une fusillade

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Ouais, n’empêche que moi aussi
Quand j’roule tout seul dans la nuit
J’me d’mande des fois c’que j’fous ici
Pris dans l’arrière-pays (yeah!)
J’pense à tout c’que j’ai manqué
Avec Mimi pis les deux filles
Et j’ai ce sentiment fucké
D’être étranger dans ma famille

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

[Saeko]

[noemon]

[Tainari88]

I am far more interested in Rancid's arguments than his life story, to be honest.

Same with other posters on this site. Their lived experience is important, of course. But to focus on this, rather than their posts, is an example of ad hom (positive ad hom being just as distracting and irrelevant as negative).

***

L'Amérique pleure (America is crying)

Encore un jour à se l’ver
En même temps que le soleil
La face encore un peu poquée
D’mon quatre heures de sommeil (yeah!)
J’tire une coup’ de poffes de clope
Job done pour les vitamines
Pis un bon café à l’eau d’mope
Histoire de s’donner meilleure mine

J’prends le Florida Turnpike
Demain soir ch’t’à Montmagny
Non trucker c’pas vraiment l’Klondike
Mais tu vois du pays (yeah!)
Surtout ça t’fait réaliser
Que derrière les beaux paysages
Y’a tellement d’inégalités
Et de souffrance sur les visages

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps :
Mais comment font tous ces gens
Pour croire encore en la vie
Dans cette hypocrisie?
C’est si triste que des fois quand je rentre à la maison
Pis que j’parke mon vieux camion
J’vois toute l’Amérique qui pleure
Dans mon rétroviseur…

Moi je traîne dans ma remorque
Tous les excès d’mon époque
La surabondance surgelée
Shootée, suremballée (yeah!)
Pendant qu’les vœux pieux passent dans l’beurre
Que notre insouciance est repue
C’est dans le fond des containers
Que pourront pourrir les surplus

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Sur l’Interstate 95
Partent en fumée tous les rêves
Un char en feu dans une bretelle
Un accident mortel (yeah!)
Et au milieu de ce bouchon
Pas de respect pour la mort
Chacun son tour joue du klaxon
Tellement pressé d’aller nulle part

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Un aut’ truck stop d’autoroute
Pogné pour manger d’la ch’noute
C’est vrai que dans la soupe du jour
Y’a pu’ tellement d’amour (yeah!)
On a tué la chaleur humaine
Avec le service à la chaîne
À la télé un aut’ malade
Vient d’déclencher une fusillade

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Ouais, n’empêche que moi aussi
Quand j’roule tout seul dans la nuit
J’me d’mande des fois c’que j’fous ici
Pris dans l’arrière-pays (yeah!)
J’pense à tout c’que j’ai manqué
Avec Mimi pis les deux filles
Et j’ai ce sentiment fucké
D’être étranger dans ma famille

La question qu’j’me pose tout l’temps...

Well Q, I am not raised to be discarding people. That is why I read biographies and am a cultural anthropologist. If people and all their psychology, experiences and cultural markers were not relevant for me or did not interest me? I would be a different person.

Why bother with human history and dead people and dead civilizations if humanity is boring and you are only interested in some of them and not all of them? Not me. I like to know what makes them them.

I find a lot of interest in a lot of people. Including the ones with differing politics.

@Rancid doesn't talk to me. Does he?

[JohnRawls]

https://twitter.com/C_A_Huggins/status/1854075950901731455

Sort off, need to learn not to expect anything out of a female presidential candidate. Women just don't vote and don't care about female presidential candidates.

But still I was wrong and that requires self infpection. I wouldn't say that her message was horrible but she fell in to Hillaries pitfall during the last month.

What did we learn from this? I guess female presidential candidates are an anchor to your chances.

[Tainari88]

https://twitter.com/C_A_Huggins/status/1854075950901731455

You think a bunch of Mexican politicians and government people saw a Jewish woman and an environmental scientist like Claudia Sheinbaum in a nation full of hardcore Roman Catholics and Indigenous cultures and machista men who love exerting power and influence over people they deem their social and economic inferiors as being worse than the mysoginistic Trumpeteers in the USA?

Lol. No, Saeko. The issue the USA has are a bunch of people believing in bullshit and not having anyone represent them.

Racism is a big factor in the USA. But it is a factor in a lot of nations that never go for fascism as an alternative. Time to do some soul searching for once.