[annatar1914]

So with every intention afterwards of tying in this next point of information to the theme beginning with Christ and the wars of the Maccabees, and the previous post regarding Anarcho Capitalism versus Socialism, let's turn to how Capitalism began in the first place....

It began with Muhammad and Mecca. Muhammad was the first Capitalist. Skeptical? Watch these two videoes please:

Part One

Part Two

Works for me. Allow me to quote Orthodox Church Fathers on the Rich, on what would become Capitalism:


“

Share everything with your brother. Do not say, ‘It is private property.’ If you share what is everlasting, you should be that much more willing to share things which do not last.”

- The Didache, c. 90 AD, (Did. 4:8)

Christians "...they love one another, and from widows they do not turn away their esteem; and they deliver the orphan from him who treats him harshly. And he, who has, gives to him who has not, without boasting. And when they see a stranger, they take him in to their homes and rejoice over him as a very brother; for they do not call them brethren after the flesh, but brethren after the spirit and in God.”

– Aristides, early 2nd century (Apology 15)



“

We who once took most pleasure in the means of increasing our wealth and property now bring what we have into a common fund and share with everyone in need.”

– Justin the Philosopher & Martyr, 100-165 AD (1st Apology 14)


“

Christians despise all possessions and share them mutually.”

– Lucian (pagan author), 2nd century (Peregrinus 13)


“

And instead of the tithes which the law commanded, the Lord said to divide everything we have with the poor. And he said to love not only our neighbors but also our enemies, and to be givers and sharers not only with the good but also to be liberal givers toward those who take away our possessions.”

– Irenaeus, 130-200 AD (Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter XIII, paragraph 3)

Disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Gospel writer and Apostle John.


“

Private property is the fruit of iniquity. I know that God has given us the use of goods, but only as far as is necessary; and he has determined that the use shall be common. The use of all things that are found in this world ought to be common to all men. Only the most manifest iniquity makes one say to another, ‘This belongs to me, that to you.’ Hence the origin of contention among men.”

– Clement of Alexandria, 150-215 AD
Mentor of Origen
The quote is from the Instructor (or called Paedagogus), bk II, ch. 13. It goes on to say, "It is monstrous for men to live in luxury while many are in need."


“

We who share one mind and soul obviously have no misgivings about community in property.”

– Tertullian, 160-225 A.D.
(Apology 39)

“It is absurd and disgraceful for one to live magnificently and luxuriously when so many are hungry…If one who takes the clothing off another is a thief, why give any other name to one who can clothe the naked and refuses to do so? The bread that you store up belongs to the hungry; the cloak that lies in your chest belongs to the naked; the gold that you have hidden in the ground belongs to the poor …How can I make you realize the misery of the poor? How can I make you understand that your wealth comes from their weeping?”

- Basil the Great, 320-379 AD

He used all his personal wealth and the income from his church for the benefit of the destitute; in every center of his diocese he built a poor-house; and at Caesarea, a home for wanderers and the homeless (from here).

“

The rich are in possession of the goods of the poor, even if they have acquired them honestly or inherited them legally.” “Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours but theirs.” “When you are weary of praying and do not receive, consider how often you have heard a poor man calling, and have not listened to him.”

- John Chrysostom, 347-407 AD


"

For Christians above all men are forbidden to correct the stumblings of sinners by force...it is necessary to make a man better not by force but by persuasion. We neither have authority granted us by law to restrain sinners, nor, if it were, should we know how to use it, since God gives the crown to those who are kept from evil, not by force, but by choice."

St. John Chrysostom

“Give away these earthly things, and win that which is in heaven. Give that which you must leave, even against your will, that you may not lose things later. Lend your wealth to God, that you may be really rich. Concerning the way in which to lend it, Jesus next teaches us saying: ‘Sell your possessions, and give alms, provide yourselves with purses that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail’ … Worldly wealth has many foes … but no one can do damage to the wealth that is laid up above in heaven.”

- Cyril of Alexandria, 378-444 AD, (Commentary on Luke, Homily 91)

You are not making a gift of your possession to the poor person. You are handing over to him what is his.

Ambrose of Milan, 340-397.

The property of the wealthy holds them in chains . . . which shackle their courage and choke their faith and hamper their judgment and throttle their souls. They think of themselves as owners, whereas it is they rather who are owned: enslaved as they are to their own property, they are not the masters of their money but its slaves.

Cyprian of Carthage, 300 A.D.

Let the strong take care of the weak; let the weak respect the strong. Let the rich man minister to the poor man; let the poor man give thanks to God that he gave him one through whom his need might be satisfied.

Clement of Rome, 1st Century

So here is what it comes down to in my thinking:

Islam will seize every Capitalist country and every Capitalist country will become Islamic. Every Socialist country will find itself Orthodox Christian.

[Hakeer]

So with every intention afterwards of tying in this next point of information to the theme beginning with Christ and the wars of the Maccabees, and the previous post regarding Anarcho Capitalism versus Socialism, let's turn to how Capitalism began in the first place....

It began with Muhammad and Mecca. Muhammad was the first Capitalist. Skeptical? Watch these two videoes please:

Part One

Part Two

Works for me. Allow me to quote Orthodox Church Fathers on the Rich, on what would become Capitalism:


“
- The Didache, c. 90 AD, (Did. 4:8)





– Aristides, early 2nd century (Apology 15)



“


– Justin the Philosopher & Martyr, 100-165 AD (1st Apology 14)


“


– Lucian (pagan author), 2nd century (Peregrinus 13)


“

– Irenaeus, 130-200 AD (Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter XIII, paragraph 3)

Disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Gospel writer and Apostle John.


“


– Clement of Alexandria, 150-215 AD
Mentor of Origen
The quote is from the Instructor (or called Paedagogus), bk II, ch. 13. It goes on to say, "It is monstrous for men to live in luxury while many are in need."


“

– Tertullian, 160-225 A.D.
(Apology 39)




- Basil the Great, 320-379 AD

He used all his personal wealth and the income from his church for the benefit of the destitute; in every center of his diocese he built a poor-house; and at Caesarea, a home for wanderers and the homeless (from here).

“

- John Chrysostom, 347-407 AD


"

St. John Chrysostom




- Cyril of Alexandria, 378-444 AD, (Commentary on Luke, Homily 91)




Ambrose of Milan, 340-397.





Cyprian of Carthage, 300 A.D.



Clement of Rome, 1st Century

So here is what it comes down to in my thinking:

Islam will seize every Capitalist country and every Capitalist country will become Islamic. Every Socialist country will find itself Orthodox Christian.

The problem is that — with notables exceptions of energy and defense — Russia converted to capitalism after 1989. So I guess it will go back to a command economy before year 2492 (or whatever). But even that society is not primitive communist as you’d have in a PERFECT Christian community where nobody even claims to own any personal property whatsoever.

[annatar1914]

@Verv , @Potemkin ,


@Hakeer , you replied:

The problem is that — with notables exceptions of energy and defense — Russia converted to capitalism after 1989. So I guess it will go back to a command economy before year 2492 (or whatever)

Russia after 1989 was subject to a coup in which Capitalism was imposed by force upon the people. Literally millions died, mostly through starvation, but you'll never hear those stories in the West. Not that many in the West would care anyway. Im a little bitter about it personally though myself.

So yes, Russia being innately commualist will revert to form at the earliest opportunity.

Not sure what your mockery of my position on " 2492AD" is all about, but whatever. I dont think that we are in the immediate era approaching the Second Coming, but its my opinion in which i could well be wrong. He is operating on His time, not mine, and if He tarries longer and as long as He wills to, surely it is out of His supraabundant mercy and goodness.

But even that society is not primitive communist as you’d have in a PERFECT Christian community where nobody even claims to own any personal property whatsoever.

But surely you have heard of the Orthodox Christian intitution of the ascetic life, among hermits and monasteries?

Not everyone is spiritually ready to personally live that life, but its an ideal that people in the world support, that life and those who do live it.

But anyway, the problem in the West is that " Christians" have tried to warp Christianity to fit Merchant and Capitalist values, the values of success in this World, and its not a good fit. Comes off as hypocritical or schizophrenic.

Muslims, whose paragon and exemplar was a Merchant Trader and a bit of a " Gangsta" by Christian standards, live under no such dichotomy and are a better fit for a West that wishes to maintain its footing firmly on top of this World.

So this is what is really going on:

[Hakeer]

@Verv , @Potemkin ,


@Hakeer , you replied:




Russia after 1989 was subject to a coup in which Capitalism was imposed by force upon the people. Literally millions died, mostly through starvation, but you'll never hear those stories in the West. Not that many in the West would care anyway. Im a little bitter about it personally though myself.

So yes, Russia being innately commualist will revert to form at the earliest opportunity.

Not sure what your mockery of my position on " 2492AD" is all about, but whatever. I dont think that we are in the immediate era approaching the Second Coming, but its my opinion in which i could well be wrong. He is operating on His time, not mine, and if He tarries longer and as long as He wills to, surely it is out of His supraabundant mercy and goodness.




But surely you have heard of the Orthodox Christian intitution of the ascetic life, among hermits and monasteries?

Not everyone is spiritually ready to personally live that life, but its an ideal that people in the world support, that life and those who do live it.

But anyway, the problem in the West is that " Christians" have tried to warp Christianity to fit Merchant and Capitalist values, the values of success in this World, and its not a good fit. Comes off as hypocritical or schizophrenic.

Muslims, whose paragon and exemplar was a Merchant Trader and a bit of a " Gangsta" by Christian standards, live under no such dichotomy and are a better fit for a West that wishes to maintain its footing firmly on top of this World.

So this is what is really going on:

Well, Putin has been in power for 34 years with no signs that the country wants to revert to a command economy. But there is still a long way to go before 2492. No mockery intended. I thought you had that as one of your predictions. My prediction is that, by 2492, the whole world will have been long-since post-capitalism, thanks to technology. Again, maybe I have been watching too much StarTrek science fiction.

We have people in the Catholic church who have sworn to poverty. My aunt was a nun in a cloistered order. Even her own mother could visit her only on special occasions. My father was her brother. Damn few Christians of any variety are willing to live like that. But again, we are a long way from 2492.

We beat Trump once, and we can beat him again. Take back the House in 2026 and the presidency in 2028. This guy in your video hates America and wants us to become a permanent dictatorship.

Here is what PEW survey reports about Muslims in America..

This guy is nuts if he thinks Afghan refugees want (or would get) any help from the Taliban. They barely escaped with their lives. The second and third generation Muslims see themselves as Americans.

[annatar1914]

@Hakeer , you replied:

Well, Putin has been in power for 34 years with no signs that the country wants to revert to a command economy. But there is still a long way to go before 2492. No mockery intended. I thought you had that as one of your predictions. My prediction is that, by 2492, the whole world will have been long-since post-capitalism, thanks to technology. Again, maybe I have been watching too much StarTrek science fiction.

No problem. And with Russia and Socialism, like anything that is integral and lasts it is an organic development and will take time.

We have people in the Catholic church who have sworn to poverty. My aunt was a nun in a cloistered order. Even her own mother could visit her only on special occasions. My father was her brother. Damn few Christians of any variety are willing to live like that. But again, we are a long way from 2492.

Family with a fair share of priests and monastics. The numbers ebb and flow, but always becomes a popular choice when one realizes:

" the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent bear it away"

As Our Lord said. Our disordered passions can become so overwhelming that only by violently rejecting the World and all its false goods can one be saved. Its a radical option.

Main point is about a culture's role models really, there is a definite contrast.

We beat Trump once, and we can beat him again. Take back the House in 2026 and the presidency in 2028. This guy in your video hates America and wants us to become a permanent dictatorship.

He wants America to be Muslim. Will Trump and company hold that back, or make it inevitable?

Here is what PEW survey reports about Muslims in America..

This guy is nuts if he thinks Afghan refugees want (or would get) any help from the Taliban. They barely escaped with their lives. The second and third generation Muslims see themselves as Americans.

I'm sorry, that's baloney. Muslims know from long established rules to tell others what they think they want to hear, ive learned from decades of interaction with them:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya ... %20enemies.

From accurate online resource:

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to “smooth over differences.”

There are forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam – in MANY cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

Qur’an (16:106) – Establishes that there are circumstances that can “compel” a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur’an (3:28) – This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to “guard themselves.

Kitman is close to Taqqiya but rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only part of the truth, with “mental reservation” justifying the omission of the rest (adjustment, deception etc, anything short of a full-blown lie). For example when a Muslim maintains that “jihad” really means “a spiritual struggle” and fails to add that this particular definition is an 11th century invention that originated from a fabricated hadith which is universally rejected by Islamic scholars, he misleads by holding back the true violent nature of jihad, and is therefore practising 'kitman'. Another example would be the insistence of a Muslim apologist that 'of course' there is the freedom of conscience in Islam, followed by quoting the Qur’anic verse “There shall be no compulsion in religion.” The impression given is false, for there has been no mention of the Islamic doctrine of abrogation, or naskh.

The other islamic forms of lying are :

*Tawriyah: ambiguous speech is when the speaker says something that has an apparent meaning that the listener would understand, and it has another hidden meaning. The speaker’s intention is this hidden meaning, except that he concealed it with that apparent and immediate meaning (that first appears to the listener).

* Taysir :deceit through facilitation (not having to observe all the tenets of Sharia).

The Prophet said, "War is deceit." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269)

* Darura: duping through 'necessity' (to engage in something "Haram" or forbidden).

*Muruna: using “flexibility” to blend in with the enemy or the surroundings. The justification for this kind of deception is a somewhat bizarre interpretation of Surah 2:106, which says, “If we abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We will replace it by a better one or similar.” Thus, Muslims may forget some of the commands in the Quran, as long as they are pursuing a better command. Muslims striving to advance Islam, therefore, can deviate from their Islamic laws in order to cause non-Muslims to lower their guard and place their trust in their Muslim counterpart.


TL;DR six islamic forms of lying are taqiyya, kitman, tawriya, taysir, darura, and muruna .

And these are the facts.

[Hakeer]

@Hakeer , you replied:





No problem. And with Russia and Socialism, like anything that is integral and lasts it is an organic development and will take time.





Family with a fair share of priests and monastics. The numbers ebb and flow, but always becomes a popular choice when one realizes:

" the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent bear it away"

As Our Lord said. Our disordered passions can become so overwhelming that only by violently rejecting the World and all its false goods can one be saved. Its a radical option.

Main point is about a culture's role models really, there is a definite contrast.



He wants America to be Muslim. Will Trump and company hold that back, or make it inevitable?



I'm sorry, that's baloney. Muslims know from long established rules to tell others what they think they want to hear, ive learned from decades of interaction with them:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya ... %20enemies.

From accurate online resource:



And these are the facts.

Especially for these women, is it so hard for you to believe that they feel their lives are better here than in Iraq or Shriah law in Afghanistan? Strange.

This country will never be Muslim.

Will all the other former USSR countries also revert to communism in 400 years?

[Potemkin]

Especially for these women, is it so hard for you to believe that they feel their lives are better here than in Iraq or Shriah law in Afghanistan? Strange.

This country will never be Muslim.

Will all the other former USSR countries also revert to communism in 400 years?

@annatar1914 I’m inclined to agree with @Hakeer here. The ancient Spartans had strict rules of conduct, but they were notorious for kicking over the traces as soon as they were outside Sparta. A little freedom, and they would go wild. You can impose strict moral rules all you like, but as soon as that external coercive force is lifted, then the moral rules evaporate like mist. In the Bible, God asserts that, “I have inscribed my laws upon your innermost hearts.” Without that, nothing can last. Islam, it seems to me, is like ancient Sparta rather than like Judaism. Once the external coercion is lifted, it falls apart.

[Tainari88]

@annatar1914 I’m inclined to agree with @Hakeer here. The ancient Spartans had strict rules of conduct, but they were notorious for kicking over the traces as soon as they were outside Sparta. A little freedom, and they would go wild. You can impose strict moral rules all you like, but as soon as that external coercive force is lifted, then the moral rules evaporate like mist. In the Bible, God asserts that, “I have inscribed my laws upon your innermost hearts.” Without that, nothing can last. Islam, it seems to me, is like ancient Sparta rather than like Judaism. Once the external coercion is lifted, it falls apart.

Agreed. Thus the reason why the person you have to control completely is yourself. IOW, self discipline and choice. Imposed crap on others are just fallacies of control.

It has to be written in your heart. That is clear.

[annatar1914]

@Tainari88 , @Potemkin , @Hakeer , and @Verv :

Just got back, and i want you to know that ive read your comments and concerns on the issue of Islam and certain aspects of what it means to be an assimilated Muslim, or assimilated anything really.

I would first of all say that these theological tools in that religion are precisely for the adherants to have some flexibility, in certain times and certain circumstances.

But second, i still have yet to state exactly how Islam and Capitalism are connected to the era of the Maccabees and of the early Christian centuries.

Nonetheless, this discussion is still not directly about Islam. Although snippets of information like this will factor in:

https://www.muslimmechanics.com/post/is ... inal-mecca

What im asking for is patience, to absorb particular pieces of information i've brought together and am attempting to put together in a coherant narrative.

Where does Islam come from? What is the historical seedbed out of which it grew?

Consider this family (Oligarchical families loom greatly in my worldview):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobiads

Important too when i cover the Books of Judith and Tobit and their historicity later on.

Also, i want to show just how unreliable ancient secular historians really are, like Josephus, in recounting the events of this era. On Masada and the " Roman Jewish Wars":

https://www.thebrighterside.news/post/t ... y-thought/

Another point that will come up: few people know that Selucid king Antiochus Epiphanes ( personal name Mithradates, recall) was not only a hostage of the Romans before his reign, but also was reforming his army along Roman legionary lines:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_army

Also on the Selucids; they were Iranian as well as Macedonian, Selucus remained married to his noble Iranian wife unlike most of Alexander's Macedonian officers after he died. She was Apama, daughter of Alexander's Sogdian foe Spitamenes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apama

As i said, the Tobiads are important, and ill be getting into that.

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Verv :

So, i mentioned that alone of the kings who were made such after being companions of Alexander, Selucus had stayed married to the Iranian princess Apama, who later historians claimed to be the daughter of Spitamenes. However, the Encyclopedia Iranica records that the Selucids themselves had another idea:

As early as the middle of the third century B.C., Seleucids claimed that Apamā was Alexander’s daughter from Roxana, the alleged daughter of Darius III; this made the Seleucids, as the inheritors of both the Achaemenids and Alexander, the rightful lords of Asia (W. W. Tarn, “Queen Ptolemais and Apama,” Classical Quarterly 23, l929, p. 138; The Greeks in Bactria and India, 2nd ed., Cambridge, 195l, pp. 446-51). The fictitious pedigree was taken seriously, and the Seleucid Era—which began in 312 B.C., twelve years after the Conqueror’s death—was named after him, and came to be known in the East as Alexander’s Era to this day, a designation which caused substantial chronological difficulties and misinterpretations (A. Sh. Shahbazi, in BSOAS 40, 1977, pp. 27f.).

That is, the claim was that an general of Alexander, Selucus, married Alexander's daughter who was thus heir to both the " divine" bloodline of Alexander and of the Persian Emperors.

Recall that Antiochus Epiphanes personal name before becoming king was a Persian one, Mithradates.

So is this all having to do with Mithraism? I believe so. And what is Mithraism really? Why was it popular in the Greco Roman world?

This man may have some answers in my opinion, which i'll get into:

http://www.mysterium.com/mithras.html

An excerpt from the book-article:

Here in the end we may sense a profound kinship between Mithraism and Christianity. For early Christianity also contained at its core an ideology of cosmic transcendence. Nowhere is this better expressed than in the opening of the earliest gospel, Mark. There, at the beginning of the foundation story of Christianity, we find Jesus, at the moment of his baptism, having a vision of "the heavens torn open." Just as Mithras is revealed as a being from beyond the universe capable of altering the cosmic spheres, so here we find Jesus linked with a rupture of the heavens, an opening into the numinous realms beyond the furthest cosmic boundaries. Perhaps, then, the figures of Jesus and Mithras are to some extent both manifestations of a single deep longing in the human spirit for a sense of contact with the ultimate mystery.

Now i will go further:

1. I believe that Mithraism began with the "Magi," those who eventually discovered the Christ Child. Their visit was commemorated according to Sextus Julius Africanus with a temple in Parthian Mesopotamia which had an Icon of God and the Mother of God painted from life. The processionary wobble of Hiparchus began the inquiry starting from the recieved Geocentric cosmology, the Star of Bethlehem fulfilled it and ultimately ushered in the Heliocentric era of the Modern Age.

2. Mithraism was headquartered in Rome and constituted the Mystery " Religion"/secret initiatory society by which Rome was able to fend off the foe in the East for a time. An East for which the Child was deemed by the Zoroasterian Powers as " Ahriman" and His Enemy Ormazd.... Mithras is the expression of the Righteous Gentile hope in the Newborn Christ.

3. Therefore efforts were made to make the various Diodochi and their descendants the divine object of these phenomena and teachings instead.

[Rancid]

I like turtles.

[Potemkin]

I like turtles.

But do turtles like you?

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Verv :

So i mentioned the Tobiads, descendants of the Ammonites (who were never to be allowed to convert to the Faith of Israel but nonetheless did so, to Israel's ruin) and there's clear evidence that these Oligarchic apostates were the root of King Herod's family:

https://www.alsadiqin.org/en/index.php? ... ite_note-4

The history of the Tobiads Dynasty has both fascinated and challenged historians and archeologists. It spans over a thousand years, covering what one might call the entire "Biblical Period". The first we hear of this dynasty is the levite-judge Tobiyah sent by the Judean king Jehoshaphat around 849 BCE.[1] Next we learn of the Tobiad tax-collectors in the Lachish ostraca, often dated immediately prior to the Babylonian captivity around 586 BCE.[2] Much of the books of Ezra and Nehemiah concern Tobias the Ammonite, covering the years 538-413 BCE. There is mention of the governors of the Trans-Euphrates in the Elephantine papyri, a generation later, 495-399 BCE. In the Zenon papyri, the Tobiads are influential Jewish landowners in Transjordan, before 260 BCE.[3] Josephus documents the helenizing activities of the Tobiads immediately prior to the Maccabean revolt 205-167 BCE, information echoed by the author of 2 Maccabees. Josephus leaves open a possible connection between the Tobiads and the Herodians.[4] Lastly we read of the Jewish prince "Tobiyah" described by Moses of Chorene (circa 410-490 CE) who is said to have introduced Thaddæus, and thus Christianity, to Edessa (in modern day Şanliurfa, Turkey). This Tobiyah is said to be the ancestor of the Armenian-Georgian royal family of Bagratuni and by some accounts the basis of their claim to "descent from King David".[5]

There has been significant research concerning the Tobiads Dynasty on the basis of textual evidence and archaeological excavations at their palace in ‘Iraq al-Amir, Jordan.[6] We know that the Tobiads played a prominent part in the process of hellenization of the Jewish people. They supported first the Ptolemic and later the Seleucid regimes in their control over the Land of Israel. Most research has focused on the Hellenistic period, but since the discovery of the Lachish ostraca and the Elephantine papyri, a great deal of attention has also been made on the post-exilic period of the Jewish people. With the successful Maccabean revolt however, almost all mention of the Tobiads ceases, and likewise the attention of scholars.

Moses of Chorene, however, traces a glorious continuation of the dynasty in the form of the royal family of Bagratuni. This is not the only royal family which claimed a connection to the Tobiads, however. We wish to explore the proposed relationship between the Tobiads and the Tubba' kings of Himyar, a dynasty which controlled much of Arabia during late antiquity. The purpose of this paper is to understand who the Tobiads were, what was the extent of their kingdom, and the nature of their religion. By documenting the transition of Tobiads from Syria to the Tubba's of southern Arabia, we hope to provide a key to understanding the context, indentity and religious system of the residents of Medina on the eve of Islam.

References
2 Chronicles 17:3-8, 19:4-8
Lachish Ostracon 3 and 5
Zenon papyri (C. P. Jud. 1; C. P. Jud. 4-5)
In an obscure quote, both Josephus' Antiquities Chapter 13.5.8 and 1 Maccabees 12:16 refer to an "Antipater son of Jason". We will explore below the possibility of a tradition connecting the Tobiads with what would become the House of Herod. Clearer evidence, however, can be evinced archeologically at the Tobiad palace at ‘Iraq al-Amir, which itself is a masterpiece of Herodian architecture and masonry.
History of Armenia, attributed to Moses of Chorene, chapter 7
A New Look at the Tobiads in Iraq al-Amir, by C. C. Ji, SBF Liber Annuus, 199

Emphasis in bold. " Antipater" being the father of King Herod, and so not so much an Edomite/Arab entirely as Josephus says, but also of the execrable Ammonite stock who always worked to destroy Israel from within, a Tobiad and in league with the Selucids and the Apostates who ruled Jerusalem from the gigantic Gentile Pagan Fortress within the City of Jerusalem....The Acra in Selucid times, or Fortress Antonia of the Gospel accounts...

...The Foundations of which are worshipped to this day falsely as the " wailing wall" of the fake " Temple Mount" location. That is right: in fitting symbolism, Jews unknowingly pray in modern times over the ruins of a Pagan gentile fort monsterously squatting beside the Temple area. And said area upon which as Our Lord prophesied: " not one stone will lay upon another", just an empty place.

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Hakeer :

So, i mentioned that alone of the kings who were made such after being companions of Alexander, Selucus had stayed married to the Iranian princess Apama, who later historians claimed to be the daughter of Spitamenes. However, the Encyclopedia Iranica records that the Selucids themselves had another idea:



That is, the claim was that an general of Alexander, Selucus, married Alexander's daughter who was thus heir to both the " divine" bloodline of Alexander and of the Persian Emperors.

Recall that Antiochus Epiphanes personal name before becoming king was a Persian one, Mithradates.

So is this all having to do with Mithraism? I believe so. And what is Mithraism really? Why was it popular in the Greco Roman world?

This man may have some answers in my opinion, which i'll get into:

http://www.mysterium.com/mithras.html

An excerpt from the book-article:



Now i will go further:

1. I believe that Mithraism began with the "Magi," those who eventually discovered the Christ Child. Their visit was commemorated according to Sextus Julius Africanus with a temple in Parthian Mesopotamia which had an Icon of God and the Mother of God painted from life. The processionary wobble of Hiparchus began the inquiry starting from the recieved Geocentric cosmology, the Star of Bethlehem fulfilled it and ultimately ushered in the Heliocentric era of the Modern Age.

2. Mithraism was headquartered in Rome and constituted the Mystery " Religion"/secret initiatory society by which Rome was able to fend off the foe in the East for a time. An East for which the Child was deemed by the Zoroasterian Powers as " Ahriman" and His Enemy Ormazd.... Mithras is the expression of the Righteous Gentile hope in the Newborn Christ.

3. Therefore efforts were made to make the various Diodochi and their descendants the divine object of these phenomena and teachings instead.

@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Tainari88 :

While it appears to be dual tracked at this point, still, with looking at Christ and His Time on Earth and the Maccabean period, i haven't combined them, yet.

First, i want to impress how Christianity is both eternally true and temporally revolutionary both in a salvific and social/cultural sense. God is beyond and greater than His Creation, not bound like the Pagan gods to Fate/Chance/Necessity as creatures are:

At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw Heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

The Theophany of the Trinity!

And " He saw Heaven being torn open...."


Torn open!

In either a Geocentric or a Heliocentric Cosmos, this is mind-shattering perceptually revolutionary material here!

The Heaven of the Sky opened up, the First Heaven, and the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a Dove from the Third Heaven, the Empyrean, beyond the Universe of the Starry Second Heaven:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyrean

In Christian religious cosmologies, the Empyrean was "the source of light" and where God and saved souls resided,[1] and in medieval Christianity, the Empyrean was the third heaven and beyond "the heaven of the air and the heaven of the stars."[2]

The Empyrean was thus used as a name for the incorporeal "heaven of the first day",[3] and in Christian literature for the dwelling-place of God, the blessed, celestial beings so divine they are made of pure light, and the source of light and creation.[1] Notably, at the very end of Dante's Paradiso, Dante visits God in the Empyrean.

Prior to this unique Event and after His Birth, what happened? That's where the rest of the picture comes in, a truly revolutionary era of 30 years that has been obscured.

I also claimed you might recall that all this has everything to do recent events. Absolutely it does:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/masked-group ... 00236.html

Because the Postmodern Pagan Age is a return to the Premodern Pagan Age, as if the Modern and Christian Age never existed. Look at the Pagan Trump, the Man of Gold.... Pagan.

[Tainari88]

For me if one is a sincere Christian you do not need an institution.

The message for me about Christ? It can be boiled down to one sentence.

God is love.

For me? The reason you were born is to find what your mission is here and serve your fellow beings. Service and also just to express yourself. And in that act, you wind up helping those who witness your life.

Wasn't there a time @annatar1914 when you were a child, and you felt like everything was new and beautiful? Where your mind was filled with hope and love and you felt at one and at peace with nature? I had those moments when I was a young child.

I remember how it felt like to go to sleep as a little one. You would think of something simple like how petals on a tropical flower looked and felt to the touch? And then you were off sleeping. Nothing disturbing the complete sense of safety and exploration that is the way the mind of a child thinks and the heart of a child feels.

Everything is new and wondrous for a child.

As adults we forget how that feels like Annatar. It is true freedom and harmony. Both at once.

God is love.

We come from that. And we go back to that.

We are creatures of a loving God if one is thinking about what is living in spirit.

In that spirit you have no pain, and no suffering. Just the boundless perfect peace and the ability to love without any real limitation. You respond with purity. That is what makes it so powerful.

Didn't you ever feel that Annatar?

[annatar1914]

For me if one is a sincere Christian you do not need an institution.

The message for me about Christ? It can be boiled down to one sentence.

God is love.

For me? The reason you were born is to find what your mission is here and serve your fellow beings. Service and also just to express yourself. And in that act, you wind up helping those who witness your life.

Wasn't there a time @annatar1914 when you were a child, and you felt like everything was new and beautiful? Where your mind was filled with hope and love and you felt at one and at peace with nature? I had those moments when I was a young child.

I remember how it felt like to go to sleep as a little one. You would think of something simple like how petals on a tropical flower looked and felt to the touch? And then you were off sleeping. Nothing disturbing the complete sense of safety and exploration that is the way the mind of a child thinks and the heart of a child feels.

Everything is new and wondrous for a child.

As adults we forget how that feels like Annatar. It is true freedom and harmony. Both at once.

God is love.

We come from that. And we go back to that.

We are creatures of a loving God if one is thinking about what is living in spirit.

In that spirit you have no pain, and no suffering. Just the boundless perfect peace and the ability to love without any real limitation. You respond with purity. That is what makes it so powerful.

Didn't you ever feel that Annatar?

@Tainari88 :

The short answer is " Always". I've never had the "luxury" of thinking otherwise than to just simply trust.

I see the Church as an Institution, but It is most comparable to a Hospital by analogy. We have a " disconnect" in our Being where as we get older the disorder in our passions causes us to do the wrong things, or fail to do the right things. We are children, whose Father God is a Healer and Restorer of innocence, and Avenger of innocence....

All that being said, everything i write is a kind of Play, in which everything i see is recapitulated and reconciled into God. All the shadows i see lengthening presage the Bright Sun which shines behind them.

[Rancid]

How many true followers of Jesus exist?

[Wellsy]

Not a Christian myself, but while one can on the personal level actualize certain ideals in how to live, I think institutions are about trying to create norms and habits of character that create en masse the way of living and not in an unstructured way. A kid could find a great deal of knowledge through their own curiosity and access to information, but we also have a public education system with the sentiment that we want to create such educational outcomes on the whole and in such a process institutions can be better or worse, as too are the resulting personalities through such institutions.
Some people may achieve the normative way of living despite such institutions while other may due to them and their attachment to the ideal concept of them. Many may love striving for the ideal even as the reality is imperfect.
But of course institutions have an issue of losing their spirit, degrading, and being corrupted. They often require revolutions, a return to their ideals but which necessarily change them.

How many true followers of Jesus exist?

https://rickroderick.org/107-kierkegaard-and-the-contemporary-spirit-1990/

Kierkegaard is the author of a famous remark, and he says “In a country – or in a place – where all are Christians, ipso facto none are Christians”. He reminds us that the Gospel – the challenging Gospel – that arguably someone like Martin Luther King took probably too seriously, not in my view, but in the view of some, that arguably there it would be dangerous to be a Christian. But we all know today to be a Christian – a famous Christian – like Billy Graham doesn’t mean you have the task of Moses which is to lead your people out of bondage. It means you have the job of playing golf with the Pharaoh, you know. I mean… that’s a different function of religion, right? To play golf with the Pharaoh isn’t the same thing as leading your people out of bondage. So, religion in that sense is just a bullwort for the status quo. You know, it’s praying for the troops, praying for victory and so on.

Kierkegaard was a brilliant critic of this use of religion. And he is a philosopher that someone I studied with – Louis Mackey, a very brilliant man – is an expert on. And he used to advise young students who are on their way to the seminary not to take his course. Because he said even though Kierkegaard is the most sophisticated modern defender of Christianity, it would be very counter-productive for your career as a minister to study Kierkegaard with me. So by all means, avoid my course. Take a course in Marx, Nietzsche, anybody, but don’t take Kierkegaard because in a way from the inside he makes the point, in a way.

[annatar1914]

How many true followers of Jesus exist?

@Rancid :

This side of Heaven, i dont know. What I do know that Jesus Christ said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no man comes to the Father except by Him.

So i follow Him knowing that im the worst of sinners. I fall down at least 7 times a day, but i get up each time with His help.

I want everyone to come to Him. But i let whether they do be up to He and them. But i dont shy away from telling them the truth if im asked.

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Tainari88 :

While it appears to be dual tracked at this point, still, with looking at Christ and His Time on Earth and the Maccabean period, i haven't combined them, yet.

First, i want to impress how Christianity is both eternally true and temporally revolutionary both in a salvific and social/cultural sense. God is beyond and greater than His Creation, not bound like the Pagan gods to Fate/Chance/Necessity as creatures are:



The Theophany of the Trinity!

And " He saw Heaven being torn open...."


Torn open!

In either a Geocentric or a Heliocentric Cosmos, this is mind-shattering perceptually revolutionary material here!

The Heaven of the Sky opened up, the First Heaven, and the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a Dove from the Third Heaven, the Empyrean, beyond the Universe of the Starry Second Heaven:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyrean




Prior to this unique Event and after His Birth, what happened? That's where the rest of the picture comes in, a truly revolutionary era of 30 years that has been obscured.

I also claimed you might recall that all this has everything to do recent events. Absolutely it does:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/masked-group ... 00236.html

Because the Postmodern Pagan Age is a return to the Premodern Pagan Age, as if the Modern and Christian Age never existed. Look at the Pagan Trump, the Man of Gold.... Pagan.

@Potemkin , and @Verv , and others:

However....

Contra the gentleman in the video, " Paganism" in the context he places it is impossible, while in the Christian context real Paganism is the normative natural state of mankind at all times and places. So normative that it easily took the shape of a syncretic monotheistic religion once the Christian Era began formation and offered a counter narrative that values earthly power and wealth and strength, beauty and glory, honour and shame.

This natural religion has answers for everything. No Trinity or Incarnation there: its too hard to grasp naturally speaking. But Jesus and Moses and others were good fellows, no doubt, so they're in the high esteem of natural religion. Good deeds accepted but a pass on hard to follow doctrines or morality. The relationship with God is like a business contract or legal document: you give something, you get something. But conversely its cruel too: because life is cruel.

Being a Pagan doesn't necessarily mean being a Polytheist nowadays. Not at all. But what a Monotheism!