[Hakeer]

If the Democrats knew the vote would be lost anyway because the Republicans were voting along party lines, they could easily make a show of voting against it while knowing full well they would still be pocketing money in the foreseeable future.

Which the Democrats seem to be doing.

Any Democrat who had voted against that bill would have lost respect, money, and votes from we Democrats. The reverse was true for the Republicans. If there’s one thing every congressman knows, it’s how his vote affects his/her next re-election campaign. That’s why we got a 100% party-line vote.

[Deutschmania]

At any rate , the Democrats must be made to realize that neo-liberalism is going to be putting the common people off from voting for them . And instead , the Republicans , under Trumpism , with their pseudo-populism will continue to gain sway , if only due to the spite of disgruntled voters towards the establishment elites .

As the shock of Donald Trump’s victory sinks in, pundits and politicians are mulling what it means for the future of the US and global politics. Understanding why such a divisive, unqualified figure won again is crucial for the Democrats. Did they go too far left and lose the moderate Americans who make up a majority? Or did centrist neoliberalism – pursued by Democratic presidents since Bill Clinton – fail to deliver, thus creating a demand for change?

To me, the answer is clear: 40 years of neoliberalism have left the US with unprecedented inequality, stagnation in the middle of the income spectrum (and worse for those below), and declining average life expectancy (highlighted by mounting “deaths of despair”). The American Dream is being killed, and although President Joe Biden and Vice-President Kamala Harris distanced themselves from neoliberalism with their embrace of industrial policies, as representatives of the mainstream establishment, they remained associated with its legacy.

The economics of the moment mattered, but monthly employment and inflation indicators need to be understood in a broader historical context. As the Biden administration stressed on the eve of the election, the economy looks strong, especially compared with others in the G7. But this wasn’t good enough. Americans haven’t forgotten that the Democrats let loose the financial sector (Clinton), then bailed out the banks while homeowners and workers who lost their jobs in the Great Recession carried the cost (Barack Obama). Moreover, it was Clinton who unleashed globalization, tacitly believing in a trickle-down economics that would ultimately benefit everyone. The only real difference between Democrats and Republicans on this score is that Democrats claimed to feel the pain of those who were losing out.

The tragedy is that Americans seem to have voted for mere disruption more than anything else. Stalked by economic precarity and the specter of downward social mobility, tens of millions of Americans voted for Trump as a way of “sticking it to the establishment”, and because many seem to believe that he has their back. He doesn’t. Trump’s first term and his 2024 election campaign made it abundantly clear that he has no intention of enacting the types of policies that ordinary Americans need. He favors tax cuts for billionaires and corporations; an end to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare); and sweeping tariffs, which are effectively a tax on US consumers and businesses. Most likely, the tariffs will be riddled with corrupt exceptions bought by campaign contributions; and in any case, they are sure to provoke retaliatory measures and a loss of American jobs.

Trump will also generate massive budget deficits, which will lead to high interest rates and less investment in America’s future. If he and congressional Republicans follow through on repealing the Inflation Reduction Act (which includes provisions to reduce prescription-drug prices) and Obamacare, Americans will find themselves with less access to medical care and higher costs.

This is all worse than neoliberalism, which at least purported to promote competitive, undistorted markets. Trumponomics is ersatz capitalism, run for and by the powerful, and according to the principle that money matters above all else.

Americans, it seems, have lost trust in their institutions and the belief that government will deliver for them. It is the predictable result of 45 years of Republican (and neoliberal Democratic) campaigning, starting with Ronald Reagan’s famous quip that “the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.’”

The culture wars also played a big role in Trump’s victory. His campaign successfully pushed the message that Democrats are obsessed with gender, race and other social issues at a time when most Americans are just trying to get by. Many voters concluded that Trump would reverse or at least slow the pace of disorienting changes that have challenged long-established social hierarchies and roles. Like nationalists everywhere, Trump blames America’s problems on outside forces, from immigration to “unfair” trade. But while it is true that neither issue has been managed very well, his proposed solutions would be disastrous for the US economy and the world. The extent to which his voters understood this is unclear. Most seem to have been drawn to the political theatre. They wanted to send a message of dissatisfaction, and now they have done so.

For the Democrats, that message should be clear: abandon neoliberalism and return to your progressive roots in the presidencies of Franklin D Roosevelt and Lyndon B Johnson. The party needs to provide a new vision of a society that offers education and opportunity to all; where markets compete to produce better products that enhance living standards, rather than to devise better ways of exploiting workers, customers, and the environment; where we recognize that we have moved on from the industrial age to an economy oriented around services, knowledge, innovation, and care. A new economy needs new rules and new roles for government.

There is a big difference between this new vision and the tweaks offered by the Harris campaign (a little more education funding here, and a few dollars to help first-time homebuyers there). Articulating a robust program will not be easy, and implementing it would be harder still. But the future of America depends on it being done. The Guardian

[Deutschmania]

How do we break this deadlock?

I think that the present day Seventh Party System must be brought to an end , with the Republican party then going the way of both the Federalist , and Whig parties before it . This might happen one of two ways . Either by people just increasingly not voting for Republican candidates , especially outside of a given stronghold of support , which for the Federalists was New England , and for the Republicans funny enough has been the old Solid South. Then the Republican party would eventually fade into obscurity , followed by a new Era of Good Feelings , which would last at least until the factions in the Democratic party split into multiple differing parties . This would be the approach favored by those who argue that we should all just "Vote blue no matter who " . But another contrasting approach would be that largely taken by those such as myself , who voted for Jill Stein each time that she'd run , and only voted for a Democrat in 2020 . We are reminded of both the Liberty Party , and the Free Soil Party , and feel that similar could result from the successive Citizen's Party , and Green Party , which have existed within my lifetime, in becoming part of a new major party , once the Republicans go the way of the prior Whigs . Either way you slice it , the Republican party must become extinct , in my opinion .

[Hakeer]

I think that the present day Seventh Party System must be brought to an end , with the Republican party then going the way of both the Federalist , and Whig parties before it . This might happen one of two ways . Either by people just increasingly not voting for Republican candidates , especially outside of a given stronghold of support , which for the Federalists was New England , and for the Republicans funny enough has been the old Solid South. Then the Republican party would eventually fade into obscurity , followed by a new Era of Good Feelings , which would last at least until the factions in the Democratic party split into multiple differing parties . This would be the approach favored by those who argue that we should all just "Vote blue no matter who " . But another contrasting approach would be that largely taken by those such as myself , who voted for Jill Stein each time that she'd run , and only voted for a Democrat in 2020 . We are reminded of both the Liberty Party , and the Free Soil Party , and feel that similar could result from the successive Citizen's Party , and Green Party , which have existed within my lifetime, in becoming part of a new major party , once the Republicans go the way of the prior Whigs . Either way you slice it , the Republican party must become extinct , in my opinion .

I looked at the Green Party platform. There’s nothing there I wouldn’t support. It looks entirely compatible with the CPC platform. What we need is Green Party people like you to come back to the Democratic Party and support CPC candidates. Then the CPC can be majority in the party and eventually take over the government. I don’t want the party to split. That just weakens it. The Republican Party will either go extinct or become a fascist dictatorship.

[Rancid]

I think that the present day Seventh Party System must be brought to an end , with the Republican party then going the way of both the Federalist , and Whig parties before it . This might happen one of two ways . Either by people just increasingly not voting for Republican candidates , especially outside of a given stronghold of support , which for the Federalists was New England , and for the Republicans funny enough has been the old Solid South. Then the Republican party would eventually fade into obscurity , followed by a new Era of Good Feelings , which would last at least until the factions in the Democratic party split into multiple differing parties . This would be the approach favored by those who argue that we should all just "Vote blue no matter who " . But another contrasting approach would be that largely taken by those such as myself , who voted for Jill Stein each time that she'd run , and only voted for a Democrat in 2020 . We are reminded of both the Liberty Party , and the Free Soil Party , and feel that similar could result from the successive Citizen's Party , and Green Party , which have existed within my lifetime, in becoming part of a new major party , once the Republicans go the way of the prior Whigs . Either way you slice it , the Republican party must become extinct , in my opinion .

I think it's more likely the Democratic party would go extinct before the Republican, but ok.

[Tainari88]

I think it's more likely the Democratic party would go extinct before the Republican, but ok.

It is the last hurrah for the Republicans. They will have Dear Leader in charge. He will do many fuck ups and eventually people will get out of the Zombie trance and the Kool Aid cult Jim Jones in the jungle stuff and dump Trump.

Once that is over? The Democrats are on the socialism bandwagon and the whole thing has to face collapsed Climate Change effects....do or die time.

Meanwhile, Rancid who had hid from the snitches in the USA....who are inundated with dumb people....

keeps a low profile as he researches how to move his money around without losing it.

[Negotiator]

I honestly dont get the discussions in this thread.

Nothing REALLY matters until Jan 20, when Trump finally takes over.

Meanwhile one can only really observe how Trump configures his cabinet, and I can only say I'm very happy with the choices so far. Both RFK jr and Tulsi Gabbard got important positions, and theres a couple other good or great picks, and everyone else are people who have at least shown alliance to Trump before.

So there is a good chance that Trump has learned from the problems of his first presicency and is absolutely serious with his plan to "make america great again", i.e. improve the life of regular americans.

Meanwhile Biden tries his best to ruins Trumps presidency beforehand as much as he can manage, but I dont think there is a way to actually do what Biden is trying to do.

[Rancid]

It is the last hurrah for the Republicans. They will have Dear Leader in charge. He will do many fuck ups and eventually people will get out of the Zombie trance and the Kool Aid cult Jim Jones in the jungle stuff and dump Trump.

Once that is over? The Democrats are on the socialism bandwagon and the whole thing has to face collapsed Climate Change effects....do or die time.

Meanwhile, Rancid who had hid from the snitches in the USA....who are inundated with dumb people....

keeps a low profile as he researches how to move his money around without losing it.

I don't have that kind of faith in Americans. They are very stupid and incredibly selfish (Project 2025 for the false promise of cheaper eggs...). They will fall for he next asshole.

[Hakeer]

Department of Government Efficiency is for you Rancid. Lol.

Those two horror assholes Vivek and Elon are going to destroy any government efficiency. Both rich assholes who want to never pay taxes again.

Party time in the USA....

For the wealthy.

Everyone who is a regular Joe and Jane is in for big trouble. Police state, and repression. Jail for any offense. They will build big jails for deportation and make money on the ankle bracelets and the prison food and gear...and they will make a profit off of everything with exclusive government contracts on all that illegal activity by the average José and Juan.

They will raid Chicken factories in Mississippi and make children come home to empty homes. Yes, indeed. A success.

They are going to go after the criminals. No man, they will go after the easy people to catch so they can meet the deadlines and quotas easily. The criminals are hard to track down and arrest. Some are armed and rarely they have predictable routines. The immigrants who register and check in frequently and are responsible working class people with children that depend on them? Will be the first to go in those factory and farm raids.

None of them arrest or fine the OWNERS of the Chicken factories. NONE. It is all about blaming the working people.

They never are absent to work at all.

It is all stupid.

I bet some people with green cards will — whether deliberately or accidentally — get caught in the Homan roundup and deported to Mexico. If they want to come back to the USA, it could cause some friction between the governments.

[Unthinking Majority]

Most Americans don't understand this.

At least Americans know something is wrong with the establishment politicians. I guess that's half the battle.

[Potemkin]

At least Americans know something is wrong with the establishment politicians. I guess that's half the battle.

The same thing was true in Germany in the 1920s. And that didn’t work out too well….

[Rich]

The same thing was true in Germany in the 1920s. And that didn’t work out too well….

The big problem in the 1920's was Adolph Hitler and his appeasement of Mussolini, not the establishment. Mussolini should have been a Godsend for German nationalism. Hitler also played a thoroughly divisive part in the campaign against the Ruhr occupation.

@SpecialOlympian claims I would never criticise Hitler. What a stupid thing to say. I've repeatedly criticised the Autobahn programme, which some idiot Liberals even praise. I have always expressed contempt for the V2 rocket programme. The fact that I don't idealise Genreral Halder as a strategic genius seems to upset a lot of Liberals. The fact that Hitler prioritsed the Ukraine over OKH;s march on Moscow was to his credit not his detriment.

[Potemkin]

The big problem in the 1920's was Adolph Hitler and his appeasement of Mussolini, not the establishment. Mussolini should have been a Godsend for German nationalism. Hitler also played a thoroughly divisive part in the campaign against the Ruhr occupation.

@SpecialOlympian claims I would never criticise Hitler. What a stupid thing to say. I've repeatedly criticised the Autobahn programme, which some idiot Liberals even praise. I have always expressed contempt for the V2 rocket programme. The fact that I don't idealise Genreral Halder as a strategic genius seems to upset a lot of Liberals. The fact that Hitler prioritsed the Ukraine over OKH;s march on Moscow was to his credit not his detriment.

Hitler was a useful whipping boy for the failures of the German generals once he was safely dead. When Hitler was presented with the plans for Operation Barbarossa, he was shocked. And he was right - it was utter lunacy.

[Rancid]

At least Americans know something is wrong with the establishment politicians. I guess that's half the battle.

Half the battle isn't the whole battle, and Americans are too stupid to even understand your statement.

Instead, they thirst for conspiracy theory and entertainment. Otherwise, they wouldn't have voted for such human trash. Humans are fickle. We are also addicted to never being satisfied. That will always drive the dissatisfaction with everything. We could build a utopia, and we will still have people complaining about it.


Anyway WRT elites, there will forever be an issue with establishment politicians. Forever. That will always be true. Humans feel like they never have enough. Enough is never enough. Our social structures have driven us down a path where we encourage and reward the bottomless pursuit of more and more. To the point where those that are abused by this system will also buy into lies, conspiracy, and other retarded shit.

What we really need, is a kind of cultural forbearance (especially for the elites/establishment). An acceptance that enough can be enough. An acceptance of some level contentment. You don't always need more. You don't always need to be a Gordan gecko or whatever other selfish asshole people tend to idolize.

People pinning their hopes on the current set of establishment monsters are still making the mistake of buying into such a system (you are moron if you think Trump is not the establishment).

In other words, trump supporters think they are buying into "anti-establishment", but they are not. Ultimately, they don't really understand what being anti-establishment is. At most, they were simply anti-incumbent. A very different thing.

[Rugoz]

At least Americans know something is wrong with the establishment politicians. I guess that's half the battle.

Is it? It would be nice if all that anti-establishment energy would be channeled into something productive. For example, there were ballot initiatives in November in a number of states for introducing ranked-choice voting (a very minor reform). They mostly failed except in the cities, even though RCV is an objectively better voting system. All it took was for establishment politicians to claim that the other side or well-moneyed interests were behind the reform. Example:

“Billionaires trying to buy elections is part of the problem with politics to begin with, and this measure makes it even easier for them to tilt the system in their favor,” Colorado Democratic Party chair Shad Murib wrote in a statement. “Proposition 131 is an overly complicated and overly expensive measure created by billionaire Kent Thiry with zero input from election clerks.”

That's it. As long as you claim to be anti-establishment, you will do perfectly fine as an establishment politician.

[Tainari88]

Hitler was a useful whipping boy for the failures of the German generals once he was safely dead. When Hitler was presented with the plans for Operation Barbarossa, he was shocked. And he was right - it was utter lunacy.

Harari of the book series Homo Sapiens has a chapter on stupidity in human history. It is a real factor and he illustrates it with great examples. Human beings sometimes make stupid decisions or bad choices. They pay for it dearly in history.

There is that lack of logic and people often stubbornly think government and politics should be an emotional choice or about fear, like, love or anger. In reality the best politics should be about logic, science, data and result driven decisions. Calculated, well planned out and oriented to justice, logic and balance. Realism.

If it was? We as a human society would be far better off. Church is about myth, emotion and so on. Also about emotional connections. Along with tradition and family ties and other institutions. Not politics at all. Or work places either.

That should be about logic and again data, science and results.

[Hakeer]

Half the battle isn't the whole battle, and Americans are too stupid to even understand your statement.

Instead, they thirst for conspiracy theory and entertainment. Otherwise, they wouldn't have voted for such human trash. Humans are fickle. We are also addicted to never being satisfied. That will always drive the dissatisfaction with everything. We could build a utopia, and we will still have people complaining about it.


Anyway WRT elites, there will forever be an issue with establishment politicians. Forever. That will always be true. Humans feel like they never have enough. Enough is never enough. Our social structures have driven us down a path where we encourage and reward the bottomless pursuit of more and more. To the point where those that are abused by this system will also buy into lies, conspiracy, and other retarded shit.

What we really need, is a kind of cultural forbearance (especially for the elites/establishment). An acceptance that enough can be enough. An acceptance of some level contentment. You don't always need more. You don't always need to be a Gordan gecko or whatever other selfish asshole people tend to idolize.

People pinning their hopes on the current set of establishment monsters are still making the mistake of buying into such a system (you are moron if you don't think Trump is not the establishment).

In other words, trump supporters think they are buying into "anti-establishment", but they are not. Ultimately, they don't really understand what being anti-establishment is. At most, they were simply anti-incumbent. A very different thing.

I hope the anti-incumbent sentiment continues in 2026, after Trump crashes the economy with his tariffs and deportations.

[Potemkin]

Harari of the book series Homo Sapiens has a chapter on stupidity in human history. It is a real factor and he illustrates it with great examples. Human beings sometimes make stupid decisions or bad choices. They pay for it dearly in history.

There is that lack of logic and people often stubbornly think government and politics should be an emotional choice or about fear, like, love or anger. In reality the best politics should be about logic, science, data and result driven decisions. Calculated, well planned out and oriented to justice, logic and balance. Realism.

If it was? We as a human society would be far better off. Church is about myth, emotion and so on. Also about emotional connections. Along with tradition and family ties and other institutions. Not politics at all. Or work places either.

That should be about logic and again data, science and results.

“Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the universe.” - Albert Einstein

[Tainari88]

“Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the universe.” - Albert Einstein

Einstein was very intelligent.

[Tainari88]

Half the battle isn't the whole battle, and Americans are too stupid to even understand your statement.

Instead, they thirst for conspiracy theory and entertainment. Otherwise, they wouldn't have voted for such human trash. Humans are fickle. We are also addicted to never being satisfied. That will always drive the dissatisfaction with everything. We could build a utopia, and we will still have people complaining about it.


Anyway WRT elites, there will forever be an issue with establishment politicians. Forever. That will always be true. Humans feel like they never have enough. Enough is never enough. Our social structures have driven us down a path where we encourage and reward the bottomless pursuit of more and more. To the point where those that are abused by this system will also buy into lies, conspiracy, and other retarded shit.

What we really need, is a kind of cultural forbearance (especially for the elites/establishment). An acceptance that enough can be enough. An acceptance of some level contentment. You don't always need more. You don't always need to be a Gordan gecko or whatever other selfish asshole people tend to idolize.

People pinning their hopes on the current set of establishment monsters are still making the mistake of buying into such a system (you are moron if you don't think Trump is not the establishment).

In other words, trump supporters think they are buying into "anti-establishment", but they are not. Ultimately, they don't really understand what being anti-establishment is. At most, they were simply anti-incumbent. A very different thing.

This piece of yours here Rancid reminds me of a Netflix documentary talking about consumption in American society and planned obsolescence. People waste a lot. Apple and many other tech companies build into their products systems that force consumers to throw out their objects of tech for new models. They build them to NOT LAST LONG. So they can keep boosting sales. Articially creating wants and desires.

If you had to get in your car, drive to the mall, go in the store, pick out the product, carry it to the line for the cashier to charge you and bag it for you, walk to the parking lot, and put it in the car, take it inside, and etc etc...you just tend to not buy as many of the item. Whether it is shoes, phones, clothes, appliances, etc.

But if you are in front of a screen, push a button or click this or that. Auto fill your CC number and your address populates fast in the pay screen. 1, 2, 3 and one or two days later or even within hours without leaving your house or hassling at all...you got the shit at your door. You can send the Christmas gifts to your mom who lives in another state in 1,2, 3.

It is way of expanding and growing your company based on waste and convenience. How many items do you really need to live decently. Do you need so many sneakers, gym equipment, gadgets, vitamins, medical equipment, new smart phones, new laptops, new tvs, etc?

it is about creating articial needs Rancid. Many retailers can't sell their food, coffee, luggage, handbags, etc. They deliberately damage it all. To make sure that homeless types and others do not use it and bring down the prestige of their 'brand names'. Deliberate waste.

Reusing is not a thing in the US. It is in Mexico. People hate wasting things. They use it all the time again.

They basically banned plastic bags in most supermarkets here. They do not give you plastic drink tops and straws at Burger King or McDonald's. They often do not even serve you food at many businesses that are inexpensive if you do not bring your own containers. They rarely give you napkins or this or that. It is all yoru responsibility to get your own cloth napkins, own containers, use metal forks from home. Etc. They are strict as hell over here. Why? To stop the plastic shit waste. They are seeing it on the beaches and everywhere from the past. They take action.

The US is way behind on that. It is. Consumption galore is still happening.

Artificial crap. We do not need most of the crap that is out there for consumption. You can make do on what there is.

Recycle all the garbage that can be made into homes. Tires, glass products, paper, cardboard, wooden pallettes. etc. Just reuse that moutain of shit into something usable. Compost the rest. Make gardens out of every abandoned land or lot. Start rethinking everything. Public transportation. Instead of millions of cars that waste. Etc.