[wat0n]

The buffer zone would not feature IDF boots on the ground. It's unnecessary to do so.

Most of Gaza's agricultural land is not close to the border either.

[Pants-of-dog]

The buffer zine already has IDF boots on the ground.

And has already taken up 32% of all land in Gaza. Since most of this is rural land, it would be safe to assume that at least a third of agricultural land has been taken over by Israel and is no longer accessible for food production.

[wat0n]

The buffer zone will not have IDF boots on the ground, it goes against the objective of a buffer zone to begin with.

A "third of agricultural land" is still not most agricultural land and in any event I will note that there was already a no man's land in practice before the current war.

[Yaqum]

What is happening in the northern Gaza Strip can be viewed as a continuation of Sharon’s policy by other means - ethnically cleansing northern Gaza of Palestinians. At first glance, it seems to be the opposite policy, but it’s actually the same policy motivated by the same reasoning.

If what you're saying is true, that would make Israel one of the most criminal states on earth, if not one of the most morally bankrupt, which maybe shouldn't be all that surprising since Israel and Russia are two of the only three states to be currently occupying illegally annexed territory. They don't respect international law at all and don't play by the rules of the UN.

I guess Bassem Youssef was right, Israel has the right to go fuck itself.

[noemon]

[Rich]

I don't know what the fate of the population in Gaza will be. I don't know what the fate of the Arab population of Gaza will be. But it seems to me that the sooner the dream or the delusion that they can be united in a viable, functional, peaceful state is abandoned, the better for all concerned. In 2022 the Russians established a land border between Crimea and the Donbas, maybe 80km wide. The Western military consensus was that this land bridge was laughably thin, laughably vulnerable. In November 2022, Ukraine's deputy defense minister thought they could drive through it and reach the sea in a matter of weeks. Despite the failure of Ukraine's 2023, I suspect Putin will still be quite keen on widening his land-bridge.

From 48 to 67 Israel's north south land bridge was more like 13 and half kilometers at its narrowest point. I would suggest that for Israel as a victorious nuclear armed power to go back to such a vulnerability is just not a serious option.

[QatzelOk]

Indeed, and it’s the reason why ‘Eretz Yisrael’ is never going to happen. ... Any such territorial expansion would require ethnic cleansing on a massive scale, and probably some form of rigid apartheid. Not to mention eternal war...

Well then there will be no Eretz Yisrael since the world's Organized Crime Gangs would never indulge in these kinds of atrocities, or defend them, or pretend that they aren't happening.

Organized Crime Gangs are far too ethical to commit genocide, ethnic-cleansing, or non-stop war on neighbors. (But they might get their dumb slaves to do the wars for them so they can really concentrate on the apartheid and ethnic-cleansing).

[Pants-of-dog]

As I predicted, even those Zionists who claim to not want ethnic cleansing will still support those policies that indirectly lead to such.

[wat0n]

I'm not sure about whatever you're yapping about now.

But an unpopulated buffer zone is not really ethnic cleansing if that's what you are trying to claim.

[Decky]

I'm not sure about whatever you're yapping about now.

But an unpopulated buffer zone is not really ethnic cleansing if that's what you are trying to claim.

How do you think it is becoming unpopulated exactly?

[wat0n]

By being made into a buffer zone, which it was even before the war.

Hint: Civilians cannot enter buffer zones freely regardless of ethnicity and whatnot.

[Rich]

I'm a highly skilled non-murderer.

Just yesterday I went to the shops twice without murdering anyone. Now this might sound shocking, I may even come over as arrogant, but I've never murdered anyone in my whole life. I've had girl friends, even when I got annoyed with them I didn't murder them. I've split up with girl friends without murdering them. Believe it or not, not one of my ex girl friends have ever accused me of murdering them.

I hence feel suitably experienced and competent to sit on a jury and judge someone for murder. Actually I'm not that unique, its not that hard to find a jury reasonably competent enough to judge someone on the crime of murder. Judging someone on their conduct in a civil war is just different. Most people haven't even been a leading figure in even one civil war. And being a leading participant in one civil war is not enough, because civil wars are so different. And even within a civil war, different people have very different challenges. Being a top commander of Hamas doesn't make you competent to judge the Israeli airforce commander and vice versa, being Israeli airforce commander doesn't make you competent to judge the professional ethics of a Hamas commander.

Have you ever been an insurgent leader? But its not good enough to just be an insurgent leader, you've got to have been one in a similar cultural and military context. Its the same for counter insurgency, how many counter insurgences have you led? Or again, I hear people complain about Winston Churchill. I hear a lot of whining about 3 million Bengalis starving to death. Some people say this was professional misconduct, that Churchill should have been expelled from the Association of Chartered world war leaders. But again I ask you how many world wars have you led to a reasonably successful outcome? How are you remotely qualified to judge a world war leader on their professional misconduct?

The whole idea of genocide or ethnic cleansing as moral /legal categories is a pathetic joke.

[Pants-of-dog]

…and civilians are prevented from entering the buffer zone by the military personnel stationed there.

So, we have a situation where 32% of Gaza will have the civilian population forcibly removed by military personnel who will then have to stay there to prevent the return of the expelled Gaza residents.

[wat0n]

The military will naturally not stay inside the no man's land, it will stay on the Israeli side of the border.

Given the precedent set on October 7, this is a very natural thing to do until the political situation changes.

[Pants-of-dog]

The claim that the IDF will not patrol the buffer zone and exclude Gaza residents seems incorrect.

Evidence should be provided to support this claim.

[wat0n]

The IDF will patrol inside Israeli territory, and ensure nobody approaches the border without authorization. Had they done this, as they had for years, October 7th wouldn't have happened.

[Pants-of-dog]

Since no evidence was provided, the claim can be dismissed.

Especially since it relies on the unrealistic assumption that the IDF can ensure that no one enters the buffer zone without patrolling it.

[wat0n]

It is not necessary to enter a 1 km long no man's land to patrol it.

It's also what the IDF was doing 5 or so years ago, before they had the "brilliant" idea to rely more on autonomous systems.

[Pants-of-dog]

Then it should be easy to find evidence, and since the evidence was not provided despite this ease. it makes even more sense to dismiss the whole claim as wishful thinking.

[wat0n]

Evidence of what, the IDF setting up a buffer zone extending 1 km into Gaza 5 or so years ago? I don't need to prove common knowledge, they also enforced it when Hamas organized those marches into the border (in retrospect, it was clearly the right call given what happened on October 7 as a result of not enforcing this buffer zone).