[Decky]

Kantian ethics are some of the dumbest ideas I have ever read. The categorical imperative should be purged from the history of ideas, nobody should ever read it or hear about it. "Oh you can't lie to a murderer if his intended victim is in your house because imagine if everyone lied bro! What would the world be like if that was the case"

If some normal person who wasn't a philisopher came up to you and posited Kant's ideas you would think the guy was a moron, anyone would. I refuse to accept Kant as a real thing, I even take Diogenes as more serious than Kant. I forget his name but even that idiotic pre-Socratic philosopher who belived movement couldn't exist and that time couldn't pass as you could divide all of those things into smaller movements or times forever was more serious.

[Potemkin]

Kantian ethics are some of the dumbest ideas I have ever read. The categorical imperative should be purged from the history of ideas, nobody should ever read it or hear about it. "Oh you can't lie to a murderer if his intended victim is in your house because imagine if everyone lied bro! What would the world be like if that was the case"

If some normal person who wasn't a philisopher came up to you and posited Kant's ideas you would think the guy was a moron, anyone would. I refuse to accept Kant as a real thing, I even take Diogenes as more serious than Kant. I forget his name but even that idiotic pre-Socratic philosopher who belived movement couldn't exist and that time couldn't pass as you could divide all of those things into smaller movements or times forever was more serious.

I believe that was Zeno of Elea (not to be confused with Zeno of Citium, one of the founders of Stoicism), who was a student of Parmenides (who also believed that motion was impossible, and our perception of it only an illusion).

[Decky]

I believe that was Zeno of Elea (not to be confused with Zeno of Citium, one of the founders of Stoicism), who was a student of Parmenides (who also believed that motion was impossible, and our perception of it only an illusion).

That was it! I was thinking of Parmenides himself though not his student, I can never bring his name to mind when I need it (not the worst bit of knowlege to have that problem with I supose, I have found that it dosen't come up much in my day to day life).

[Ter]

An enlightening discussion about world history and the Ukrainian war.

[annatar1914]

The governor of Kaliningrad is explicitly rejecting the values of the European Enlightenment.

Read this for further details

@Potemkin :

And not just the governor of Kaliningrad. The SMO has definitively moved Russian society to begin to reject the whole of Western civilization as a guide, as has been the case since Tsar Alexei and Patriarch Nikon for about 400 years.

[litwin]

One of the funniest aspects of the Ukraine war is how the jargon differs radically between NAFO and the actual Ukrainians who are fighting.

NAFO, of course, is part of the liberal world order and can't abide by this stuff, lol:



@litwin Litwin, how do you call them when you are not on the forum?

In the Ukrainian style, or in the Western style?

i call Muscovites for Jihadi imperialists , pig - dogs, etc. but Ukrainians have a point , your represent here pedo - GULAG culture .

Stalin & Ivan (creators of Moscow empire) the terrible were notorious pedophiles /pederasts

Stalin and his lover aged 13. Told for the first time, the astonishing story of the brutal dictator's affair with an under-age schoolgirl...and how he made her pregnant.

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/sta ... 81841.html

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=184910

THAT'S WAY our pedophiles are flocking in to Moscow empire

[litwin]

HEARING - Moscow's Imperial Identity

The following witnesses are scheduled to testify:

1. Dr. Botakoz Kassymbekova, Assistant Professor in Modern History, University of Basel
2. Philip Obaji Jr., Correspondent, The Daily Beast
3. Timothy Snyder, Richard C. Levin Professor of History, Yale University
4. Dr. Maria Vyushkova, Buryat activist and scientist

[litwin]

https://youtu.be/FR4kg8HwtZ8?si=N12XgA7EvkW049ed

An enlightening discussion about world history and the Ukrainian war.

BREAKING : Serbian "bratuški" (did it again ) cancels Moscow arms deals amid Ukraine war, Western sanctions

WHO WILL BE Next NATO member, Serbia, Moldova, or Armenia ?


https://x.com/ThailandSerbia/status/1877753374818406690



Around $855 million in Serbian ammunition reaches Ukraine

https://kyivindependent.com/ft-serbia-h ... o-ukraine/

[Hakeer]

What is going on in Pokrovsk?

[Decky]

The French trained Ukrainian battaltion is getting bent over (well the few that have not either deserted or surrendered are anyway).

[Looky Here]

The French trained Ukrainian battaltion is getting bent over......

Yes... and down-wind from from the Ruskies "point of entry". Ouch!

[Rich]

The French trained Ukrainian battaltion is getting bent over (well the few that have not either deserted or surrendered are anyway).

I hope that's symbolic, not literal. In my view homosexual rapists should not be encouraged even in war time.

So the Liberals are now saying that Trump must give Zelensky, the man who brought about Trump's first impeachment a great victory, or he will look weak. To me taking ownership of Biden and Macron's war seems very unwise. If Trump want's a victory to make America look strong again after the weakness of the Biden-Harris years, focusing on getting the Panama Canal back would seem the most promising option.

[Looky Here]

I hope that's symbolic, not literal.

Uhhh .....

In my view homosexual rapists should not be encouraged .....

Come on, Rich. Relax.

[Potemkin]

Uhhh .....

Come on, Rich. Relax.

I keep telling @Rich to chill out, but he never seems to listen to me….

[Rugoz]

Don't mind Rugoz here: if i had to guess he's a Magyar irredentist Arrow Cross Pan Turanian in Western Liberal disguise. He certainly has never denied it. Probably hates Russia and Slavs because the Tsar and Croats helped put down Kossuth's rebellion in 1848

That's funny. How long have we been on Pofo, annatar? I know that Magyar is a civilization in Age of Empires.

* Do you know that the USSR no longer exists?

I'm fully aware. You know that Putin's petro-dictatorship still exists, do you?

Come on, Rich. Relax.

Rape by Russian soldiers in Ukraine is widespread. So is torture. I suppose we can all relax once Putin and co. rot in a cell in The Hague.

Kantian ethics are some of the dumbest ideas I have ever read. The categorical imperative should be purged from the history of ideas, nobody should ever read it or hear about it. "Oh you can't lie to a murderer if his intended victim is in your house because imagine if everyone lied bro! What would the world be like if that was the case"

There a different interpretations of the CI, but yours isn't any of them because it seems consequentialist. Your maxim is not universalizable because lying for the purpose of deception only makes sense in world where people expect others to tell the truth.

In reality of course, a murderer would only ask you such a question if he thinks you don't know he's a murderer. In that case the maxim "lying to a murderer" is universalizable and you can lie to him.

Also, just shutting to door is always an option.

[Looky Here]

..... You know that Putin's petro-dictatorship still exists, do you? Rape by Russian soldiers in Ukraine is widespread. So is torture.

Interacting with you is going to be limited.

[Rich]

My God the drivel that comes out of these Liberals mouths. Kaja Kallas has said that she doesn't think it is the interests of America, for Russia to become the strongest force in the world. Really as if such a possibly is remotely likely in the near or even medium term. Russia is fighting to maintain control of its Sevastopol Naval Base, this is like if the United States was fighting a war to maintain control of the San Diego Naval Base.

There is ferocious competition amongst the Liberals to see who can say the most moronic things on Ukraine. Kaja Kallas doesn't want to be second bested. Her and the other liberals big idea at the moment seems to be to persuade Donald Trump that if Russia is allowed to maintain control over Sevastopol, then Russia will be the greatest power in the world and hence he must attach himself to Zelensky's coat tails to make himself look strong.

Now I'm not going to make 100% predictions, but I'd say that the signs are the Donald Trump is not as stupid as Liberals like Kaja Kallas think he is. And that he understands that America's control over the Panama Canal is far more important to America's long term security than Russia's control over Sevastopol. And that he has no plans to follow the Danish idiots example who gave away all their artillery to Zelensky.

[Looky Here]

My God the drivel that comes out of these Liberals mouths. Kaja Kallas has said.....

Oh, she's just an idiot. A nothing little shithole of a country (no offence) thinks she's got a place on a major podium of the world!

[Deutschmania]

Kantian ethics are some of the dumbest ideas I have ever read. The categorical imperative should be purged from the history of ideas, nobody should ever read it or hear about it. "Oh you can't lie to a murderer if his intended victim is in your house because imagine if everyone lied bro! What would the world be like if that was the case"

If some normal person who wasn't a philisopher came up to you and posited Kant's ideas you would think the guy was a moron, anyone would. I refuse to accept Kant as a real thing, I even take Diogenes as more serious than Kant. I forget his name but even that idiotic pre-Socratic philosopher who belived movement couldn't exist and that time couldn't pass as you could divide all of those things into smaller movements or times forever was more serious.

But it still might hold practical application in a real world situation . If the Kantian philosopher were to be able to undermine trust in a person and his cohorts , then unit cohesion would likewise be undermined .

[Deutschmania]

Of course they did. Several times over, you were invaded and occupied by France, you had a civil war in 1847 when the catholics formed an enclave. Your neutrality was enshrined in 1815 in the Treaty of Paris, because Russia insisted on it. That constitution was penned by the Russian Foreign Minister, Count Capodistrias. Your system was developed to deal with precisely the issue of power-sharing between different communities. A power-sharing you vehemently reject for the case of Ukraine, despite Ukraine having more Russians than you have Italians and French combined.

Noone tried to harm Ukraine before it decided to hand over the sovereign Russian naval base to NATO without even discussing a solution first. Equivalently if Switzerland had broken the status quo established in 1815, it would also have been invaded again and it was told so by those who guaranteed its neutrality(Austria, Germany, France, Russia) in pretty explicit terms several times.

Switzerland backed down its threats to break its neutrality and was not invaded, unlike Ukraine who did not back down at NATO's instigation.....





Switzerland is no less European and it is NOT either in the EU or NATO. Swiss neutrality was secured by Russia in the Treaty of Paris during the Concert of Europe which was founded by Russia. The idea that Russia exists outside European values is also totally preposterous.

However , just a heads up , but Switzerland's status as a neutral nation has since become compromised by the war in Ukraine .

ZURICH, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Switzerland is close to breaking with centuries of tradition as a neutral state, as a pro-Ukraine shift in the public and political mood puts pressure on the government to end a ban on exports of Swiss weapons to war zones.
Buyers of Swiss arms are legally prevented from re-exporting them, a restriction that some representing the country's large weapons industry say is now hurting trade.
Calls from Switzerland's European neighbours to allow such transfers to Kyiv have meanwhile grown louder as Russia's assault intensifies, and parliament's two security committees recommended that the rules be eased accordingly. Lawmakers are divided on the issue.
"We want to be neutral, but we are part of the western world," said Thierry Burkart, leader of the centre-right FDP party, who has submitted a motion to the government to allow arms re-exports to countries with similar democratic values to Switzerland.
Under Swiss neutrality, which dates back to 1815 and is enshrined by treaty in 1907, Switzerland will not send weapons directly or indirectly to combatants in a war. It operates a separate embargo on arms sales to Ukraine and Russia. Third countries can in theory apply to Bern to re-export Swiss weapons they have in their stocks, but permission is almost always denied.
"We shouldn't have the veto to stop others helping Ukraine. If we do that, we support Russia which is not a neutral position," Burkart told Reuters.
"Other countries want to support Ukraine and do something for the security and stability of Europe... They cannot understand why Switzerland has to say no."
Increasing numbers of Swiss voters agree. A survey by pollsters Sotomo published on Sunday showed 55% of respondents favour allowing weapons re-exports to Ukraine.
"If we had asked this question before the war..., the response would have probably been less than 25%. Talking about changing neutrality was a taboo in the past," Lukas Golder, co-director of pollsters GFS-Bern, told Reuters.
MONEY TALKS?
The government - under pressure from abroad after rejecting German and Danish requests for permission to re-export Swiss armoured vehicles and ammunition for anti-aircraft tanks - said it would not prejudge parliamentary discussions. Bern "adheres to the existing legal framework.. and will deal with the proposals in due course," said a spokesman for the Department of Economic Affairs, which oversees arms-related trade issues.
Burkart said he had received positive signals on a law change from other parties in the fragmented legislature.
The left-leaning Social Democrats say they are in favour of changes, as are the Green Liberals, although the Greens remain opposed.
Green MP Marionna Schlatter said allowing weapon deliveries to Ukraine risked a "slippery slope" towards ending all restrictions, and was incompatible with Switzerland's neutrality.
Meanwhile the right-wing Swiss People's Party (SVP), the lower house's largest party and traditionally staunch defenders of neutrality, now appears divided.
"Allowing arms shipments to a country involved in an armed conflict is ... destroying the basis of peace and prosperity in our country," said SVP lawmaker David Zuberbueler.
SVP member Werner Salzmann, who sits in the upper parliamentary house, disagrees, raising concerns in the Aargauer Zeitung daily about collateral damage to a Swiss defence industry that also backs the campaign for a law change.
The sector, which includes multinationals Lockheed Martin and Rheinmetall, sold 800 million Swiss francs' ($876 million) worth of armaments abroad in 2021 according to government data, putting it in the global top 15 of exporter nations.
Having a strong arms industry has gone hand in hand with the tradition of neutrality, but the balance of this duality may now be under threat, industry association SwissMem said.
"Some of our members have lost contracts or are no longer investing in Switzerland because of the current restrictions," said SwissMem director Stefan Brupbacher.
"Our current situation weakens our security policy..., hampers the credibility of our foreign policy and damages our companies," he said. "It's time to change. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swiss-neutrality-line-arms-for-ukraine-debate-heats-up-2023-02-06/

Switzerland isn’t keen on getting involved in wars but likes making money.

The clash between those values — plus worries that Russian President Vladimir Putin poses a risk to the whole of Europe — is prompting the country to rethink its defense stance.

In a bombshell report released on Thursday, a group of experts recommend to the government that the country, which has been neutral since 1515, work on a "common defense capability" with the EU and NATO. Since the Russian attack on Ukraine, neutrality has once again become the subject of political debate, both at home and abroad. Pressure on Switzerland to clarify its position is growing," reads the report, calling for a "revision" of its neutrality policy.

One of the many drivers is how Switzerland's neutrality has affected arms sales; another is how to better defend a country surrounded by two groupings to which it doesn't belong.

The potential policy upheaval is yet another sign of how Russia's 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine is changing Europe's security landscape. The unprovoked attack prompted Sweden and Finland to ditch their neutrality and join NATO.

The experts preparing the report — including diplomats, senior officials, a former head of the Swiss army and Wolfgang Ischinger, the former director of the Munich Security Conference — delivered their findings to Swiss Defense and Security Minister Viola Amherd, who is also president of the Confederation for 2024. The recommendations will inform Switzerland's 2025 security strategy.

Allowing arms exports
Switzerland's arms exports fell last year by 27 percent to less than 700 million Swiss francs (€746 million) compared to 2022 — due both to strict arms export provisions and to the one-off effect of Qatar ending air defense systems purchases tied to its hosting of the 2022 World Cup.

Bern bans the sale of weapons to countries at war, and that's had a ripple effect on relationships with other countries wanting to send arms to Ukraine that might include Swiss components. "The re-export ban must be lifted," urges the report.

Switzerland has blocked delivery of weapons and ammunition to Ukraine from several European countries. It took months of pressure for Switzerland to agree to ship surplus Leopard tanks to Germany to replace those sent to Ukraine. Its refusal to allow Swiss-made ammunition in Germany's stocks to be sent to Ukraine for use in donated Gepard anti-aircraft systems helped prompt German armsmaker Rheinmetall to boost ammunition production in Germany.

Experts also want to strengthen the Swiss arms industry by boosting offset policies and gaining access to EU and NATO armament programs.

'Explosive' proposals
The report was controversial before it was even released, as opposition parties accused Amherd of appointing mainly NATO and EU enthusiasts to the experts committee.

It's likely to meet pushback in the Swiss parliament, especially from pacifist left-leaning parties and the nationalist far-right; Amherd is already under fire for the country's increasingly close ties with NATO. The report makes it clear that Switzerland is a Western country and therefore supports Western values," said Jean-Marc Rickli, the Geneva Centre for Security Policy's head of global and emerging risks. However, "calls for increased military cooperation with NATO and the EU will very likely stir lots of debate within Switzerland," he added, agreeing with assessments that the report is potentially "explosive" domestically.

The experts stop short of suggesting that Switzerland entirely scrap its neutrality and join NATO, but they do urge deeper ties with the military alliance and the EU on joint training, defense against ballistic missiles and bilateral and multilateral exercises.

The report also calls for military expenditure to reach 1 percent of GDP by 2030. Switzerland currently spends 0.76 percent of GDP on defense — far less than any NATO member except Iceland, which doesn't have a military.

While it's unlikely Switzerland will be invaded, the country is already the target of hybrid warfare including disinformation, espionage and cyberattacks, according to the report. The experts recommend moving toward "global defense," meaning preparing the whole of society — not only the military — for a potential conflict.

Cozy with EU, NATO
In the past months, the Swiss federal council, which runs the country, has signaled a willingness to cuddle up to both NATO and the EU on security and defense.

On Wednesday, a Swiss delegation traveled to Luxembourg to meet with NATO’s Support and Procurement Agency (NSPA). One of the meeting’s goals was to assess potential synergies and opportunities for cooperation with the agency. Earlier this month, the federal council also approved participation in two of the EU's Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) projects, one on military mobility that aims to facilitate border crossings and another one on cyberdefense.

According to Rickli, Switzerland wants to prove it's playing its part in case the neutral country needs military help from EU countries or NATO.

"There's a reputational element of Switzerland potentially seen as a free rider who doesn't cooperate with European states," he said. "If it wants to benefit from the help of its European partners, it has to give something back."

https://www.politico.eu/article/switzerland-military-neutrality-defense-arms-sales-war-in-ukraine-vladimir-putin/