[ingliz]

Floyd was not obese!

You Americans are fat fucks, waddling great tubs of lard.

What you think 'adequately nourished' is obese.

Using the standard BMI tables, Floyd was 38lb/17kg overweight.

And that is over 17% more than is ideal for a well-muscled man of his size.

[Cosmo]

You Americans are fat fucks, waddling great tubs of lard.

What you think 'adequately nourished' is obese.

Using the standard BMI tables, Floyd was 38lb/17kg overweight.

Overweight != obese.



Can you put your absurd argument to rest for good now? You don't even know the basic facts of the case. Go argue about something simpler, like what flavor of ice cream is best. Mmmkay?

And that is over 17% more than is ideal for a well-muscled man of his size.

[ingliz]

@Cosmo

The most basic fact is Chauvin murdered Floyd.

Two autopsies, and one autopsy review, found Floyd's death to be a homicide.




p.s. Are you arguing with my numbers?

184lb is the top end of a healthy weight for a 6' 4'' man.

Floyd weighed 222lb.

222 - 184 = 38

38 as a percentage of 222 is 17.1171171.

17.1171171 is more than 17.

[Cosmo]

@Cosmo

The most basic fact is Chauvin murdered Floyd.

Two autopsies, and one autopsy review, found Floyd's death to be a homicide.




p.s. Are you arguing with my numbers?

You cited obesity per BMI to support your conclusion, I proved he was not obese per same BMI, and your response is to repeat your conclusion like nothing happened.

184lb is the top end of a healthy weight for a 6' 4'' man.

Floyd weighed 222lb.

222 - 184 = 38

38 as a percentage of 222 is 17.1171171.

17.1171171 is more than 17.

Now you're backpedaling to overweight because your "obese" claim was sunk.

But per your own claim, your argument was based on obesity:

If a subject is obese, as Floyd was, the excess fat tissue is forced upwards into the abdominal cavity

[Pants-of-dog]

….. the usual argument I present, such as in post #15334621, ….

Here is that post:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=182717&start=120#p15334621

Here is a quote of that post, minus my post to which you were replying:

Code: Select allA. Arteriosclerotic heart disease, multifocal, severe

Code: Select allA. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:
1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL

So you did not actually write an argument.

Instead you copied and pasted some text without citing the source.

The fact that you did not cite the source suggests that you copied and pasted the text from the social media posts that have recently been surfacing and that have been shown to be misleading by the article I cited.

Would you like to clarify your argument now?

[ingliz]

@Cosmo

The mechanism - excess fat pressing against the diaphragm - that increases the lethality of prone restraint is the same whether one is morbidly obese or merely grossly overweight.

Floyd was grossly overweight and the only reason you cannot see this is because Americans are fat fucks used to seeing fat fucks waddling along as the 'normal'.

[annatar1914]

@Cosmo

The mechanism - excess fat pressing against the diaphragm - that increases the lethality of prone restraint is the same whether one is morbidly obese or merely grossly overweight.

Floyd was grossly overweight and the only reason you cannot see this is because Americans are fat fucks used to seeing fat fucks waddling along as the 'normal'.

@ingliz :

High stress levels, depression, and more sedentary lifestyles and processed food will do that. Of course it also differs by demographic as well.

I myself am 6 foot 4 inches and presently weigh a little under 260 pounds from a maximum of 304 pounds after a major life threatening car accident. I worked labour intensive and often outdoors work in my youth and i weighed 220 pounds, of mainly muscle. But after 5 major accidents over the years ( people hitting me with their vehicles, honestly, all five) where i had serious back injuries, my heels and ankles broken, most of my fingers and toes broken and smashed or crushed at one time or another, etc... its been harder to come back from that and i gained fat and lost some muscle. I work out, diet, fast, but it was hard to get just from 304 to 260, about 2 years.

And thats with no drinking or smoking or doing drugs.

[ingliz]

@Cosmo

Why if pressing doesn't kill was this execution method used for thousands of years, in America most famously during the Salem Witch Trials of 1692?




@annatar1914

The numbers have been trending upward since 1990.

Around 74 per cent of adults in the U.S. are overweight now, according to the CDC.

And that includes nearly 43 per cent who are considered obese. Yet, after analysing the data, they found that 10 per cent of those people don’t perceive themselves to be overweight.

Point proved I think.

[Tainari88]

@ingliz :

High stress levels, depression, and more sedentary lifestyles and processed food will do that. Of course it also differs by demographic as well.

I myself am 6 foot 4 inches and presently weigh a little under 260 pounds from a maximum of 304 pounds after a major life threatening car accident. I worked labour intensive and often outdoors work in my youth and i weighed 220 pounds, of mainly muscle. But after 5 major accidents over the years ( people hitting me with their vehicles, honestly, all five) where i had serious back injuries, my heels and ankles broken, most of my fingers and toes broken and smashed or crushed at one time or another, etc... its been harder to come back from that and i gained fat and lost some muscle. I work out, diet, fast, but it was hard to get just from 304 to 260, about 2 years.

And thats with no drinking or smoking or doing drugs.

There are a lot of factors to losing weight Annatar. One of them is eating meals at the right time. And also a balance of nutrition. You have to figure out which diet works for you. And be consistent. Also most people have certain metabolism. You figure out which of the different types you possess and stick with their recommendations. For example, certain people can be eating a lot of calories and carbs and fats and so on and they burn it all quickly and hardly ever gain weight at all. Others can fast, eat low caloric content and it all turns to fat in the metabolism. The issue is how to identify which type are you? I thought Ayurvedic medicine was bullshit. Until I tried it out. It works like a charm!

Also, weights and a lot of dancing is good for my type of body and thought and metabolism. Running, trotting and treadmills and eating meat and dairy is not good for me at all. I had to really do a lot of analysis to deal with it.

If you are a Kapha like I am? You got to hit the weights hard and forget about meat completely.

My uncle is one of those people who can eat enormous amounts of food and never gain weight. He can do light exercise and never gain weight. He is another metabolism.

I say you answer the Ayurvedic questions about your body's metabolism and see what they recommend.

What I found hard as hell to do? Was planning your meals all the time and all the month and planning planning and planning. It means grocery shopping, planning, cooking and then planning some more. And then you cook and have to eliminate these series of foods forever. It aint easy.

All meat including fish, and fowl. No meat. No beef, pork, chicken, tuna, etc. NOTHING of meat forever. No fats that are saturated fats or refined fats. Oils of all sorts. The only fats allowed are nuts and avocadoes and those are sparing. No dairy products at all. All dairy products. Cheeses, yogurts, milk, milk products, butter, etc. Forever.

No refined flours or white flours or unfermented breads that are refined. No refined flours of any sort. Ever. That means almost all breads.

No processed or salted or refined sugars. Ever.

All the rest is acceptable. That is what works for me. Is it easy? Hell no. I like meat and dairy and sugar. But I feel a lot better without them.

[Cosmo]

Here is that post:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=182717&start=120#p15334621

Here is a quote of that post, minus my post to which you were replying:



So you did not actually write an argument.

That's one of the posts. If you had any reading comprehension capabilities, you'd have been able to follow along with the discussion, gone a few posts back, and found my thesis:

Code: Select allFloyd died because of a combination of hard illegal drugs in his system, very poor heart health, and his violent resistance to his detention. I suspect you didn't look at the autopsy report either.

The post you quoted is a follow-up with the supporting evidence.

Instead you copied and pasted some text without citing the source.

The fact that you did not cite the source suggests that you copied and pasted the text from the social media posts that have recently been surfacing and that have been shown to be misleading by the article I cited.

Would you like to clarify your argument now?

[Cosmo]

@Cosmo

The mechanism - excess fat pressing against the diaphragm - that increases the lethality of prone restraint is the same whether one is morbidly obese or merely grossly overweight.

Floyd was grossly overweight and the only reason you cannot see this is because Americans are fat fucks used to seeing fat fucks waddling along as the 'normal'.

Your criteria was obesity per BMI. Floyd was not obese per BMI. Your incessant whining about Americans won't change that. Now go on and backpedal like you usually do.

Why if pressing doesn't kill was this execution method used for thousands of years, in America most famously during the Salem Witch Trials of 1692?

Who ever said "pressing doesn't kill?" Just like in the case of overweight vs obese, there is nuance involved, especially when it comes to the actual weight that is pressing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crushing_(execution)

Code: Select allThe two sergeants who should have carried out the execution hired four desperate beggars to do it instead. She was stripped and had a handkerchief tied across her face, She was then laid across a sharp rock the size of a man's fist, the door from her own house was put on top of her and loaded with 7 or 8 hundredweight weight of rocks and stones,[2] so that the sharp rock would break her back. Her death occurred within fifteen minutes, but her body was left for six hours before the weight was removed. Her body was buried secretly in accordance with Catholic rites.[2]

Note that 700-800 lbs was needed to kill her, and this was with a sharp rock applying pressure to a specific point to break the person's back. Nowhere near that amount of pressure was applied to Floyd, and he was on a flat surface.

But of course you're not aware of these details. You'd rather act out of ignorance to try and cling to any straw you can to support your ridiculous argument.

[Pants-of-dog]

....

Floyd died because of a combination of hard illegal drugs in his system, very poor heart health, and his violent resistance to his detention.

.....

Yea and no.

The drugs and the heart condition may have been contributing factors but they did not cause his death.

We already looked at your claim that he was resisting detention and showed it was irrelevant since Mr. Floyd was not resisting at all for most of the time that the murderer knelt on Mr. Floyd's neck.

So two parts of your argument are not entirely incorrect, one is decidedly incorrect, and you make the omission of not mentioning the fact that his murderer knelt on Mr. Floyd's neck.

[Cosmo]

Yea and no.

The drugs and the heart condition may have been contributing factors but they did not cause his death.

That's how many disease and drug-related deaths occur: various contributing factors. As opposed to, say, a murder involving a bullet to the head where it's fairly simple to pinpoint an obvious cause.

We already looked at your claim that he was resisting detention and showed it was irrelevant since Mr. Floyd was not resisting at all for most of the time that the murderer knelt on Mr. Floyd's neck.

So two parts of your argument are not entirely incorrect, one is decidedly incorrect, and you make the omission of not mentioning the fact that his murderer knelt on Mr. Floyd's neck.

Resisting is why he was restrained in the first place. What makes it suddenly not relevant when the person stops flailing around violently? If a piece of paper stops flying away in the wind only after I place a paperweight on it, does it mean the paperweight is no longer needed?

[ingliz]

@Cosmo

A man is not a piece of paper.

Police training and SOPs say an officer should remove the subject from their stomach as soon as they are handcuffed.

[Cosmo]

@Cosmo

A man is not a piece of paper.

Police training and SOPs say an officer should remove the subject from their stomach as soon as they are handcuffed.

I see you're abandoning your previously disproved claims and making new unproven ones.

[ingliz]

I see

I see a racist little shit losing an argument.

And it's an argument you cannot win.

There is an initial reasonableness in trying to get him under control in the first few seconds. But once there was no longer any resistance, and clearly when Mr Floyd was no longer responsive and even motionless, to continue to apply that level of force to a person proned out, handcuffed behind their back – that in no way, shape or form is anything that is by policy, is not part of our training and is certainly not part of our ethics or our values.

— Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo telling jurors at the trial that Chauvin's actions ran against his department's training and values

Lt. Johnny Mercil of the Minneapolis Police Department's training division told jurors that the police did not teach the technique Chauvin used to restrain George Floyd. He also said that people who are in handcuffs and are in the prone position should be moved either to the recovery position – on their side – or to a sitting or standing position, to avoid positional asphyxiation.

When fellow officers in the Minneapolis Police Department refuse to defend Chauvin's actions, why do you? He's already pleaded guilty to using unreasonable force in the federal case and waived his rights to appeal the 252-month sentence.

[Pants-of-dog]

That's how many disease and drug-related deaths occur: various contributing factors. As opposed to, say, a murder involving a bullet to the head where it's fairly simple to pinpoint an obvious cause.

As long as we agree that the drugs and heart conditions did not cause Mr, Floyd’s death.

Resisting is why he was restrained in the first place. What makes it suddenly not relevant when the person stops flailing around violently?

Because they are no longer resisting.

If a piece of paper stops flying away in the wind only after I place a paperweight on it, does it mean the paperweight is no longer needed?

This is a bad analogy.

[Cosmo]

I see a racist little shit losing an argument.

What happened to your pressing execution method argument? Where's the BMI argument?

You gonna tell us Chauvin weighed 700 lbs?

And it's an argument you cannot win.

There is an initial reasonableness in trying to get him under control in the first few seconds. But once there was no longer any resistance, and clearly when Mr Floyd was no longer responsive and even motionless, to continue to apply that level of force to a person proned out, handcuffed behind their back – that in no way, shape or form is anything that is by policy, is not part of our training and is certainly not part of our ethics or our values.

— Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo telling jurors at the trial that Chauvin's actions ran against his department's training and values

Lt. Johnny Mercil of the Minneapolis Police Department's training division told jurors that the police did not teach the technique Chauvin used to restrain George Floyd. He also said that people who are in handcuffs and are in the prone position should be moved either to the recovery position – on their side – or to a sitting or standing position, to avoid positional asphyxiation.

When fellow officers in the Minneapolis Police Department refuse to defend Chauvin's actions, why do you?

Because I don't stand to gain anything by appeasing rabid BLM rioters threatening to burn the city to the ground.

He's already pleaded guilty to using unreasonable force in the federal case and waived his rights to appeal the 252-month sentence.

[Cosmo]

As long as we agree that the drugs and heart conditions did not cause Mr, Floyd’s death.

No, we don't.

Because they are no longer resisting.



This is a bad analogy.

No, it's a great analogy.

[Pants-of-dog]

No, we don't…..

Then convince me that drugs and/or a heart condition caused Mr. Floyd’s death, and also show that his murderer did not kill him by kneeling on his neck.

Before doing that, please note that you ignored evidence.

Let us look at those instances:

The first one is here:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=182717&start=120#p15334625

And a second one:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=182717&start=140#p15334693

And a third example here:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=182717&start=160#p15334813

Let me know when you have addressed these facts that contradict your claim.