Australian Politics General Thread - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14714705
Hillarious. Apparently labor were a whisker away from getting parliamentary approval for the banking royal commission. There was one vote in it and Kathy Mcgowan was already on the road back to Victoria, but turned around when she heard about the impending vote, but missed the vote by a matter of minutes.

Talk about the quirks of parliamentary convention: when the motion to bring on the debate was put forward the vote was tied. But bizarrely, convention dictates that the speaker must vote with the opposition on votes related to bringing on debate.
#14717585
The government was just wasting time filibustering, giving inane speeches (really really inane) can someone explain why? was it if they had nothing do the opposition could propose something?


Reports are coming intuit stopingthe boast has cost 9.6 billion, $400,000 per detainee. Anyone got any more beyond just these reports about cost which are coming form NGOs (is the budget burying this detail?) is this credible?
#14717774
pugsville wrote: was it if they had nothing do the opposition could propose something?


Actually not as dumb as it sounds, as the reality is that 99% of any legislation this government will manage to pass will be legislation that labor votes on.

The 'do nothing' routine by the government is easily explained - they literally have no agenda. Their agenda pre-election was to fob their way through the election. There really is no long term agenda - which is actually a scary proposition.
#14864233
interesting times.

Prime Minister Turnbull has cancelled a week of parliament sitting as the removal of 2 government members leaves the government lacking command of the house of representatives where all sorts of things could now happen. Looks like a Government running scared. cancelled parliament because you don't have the numbers isn't that well undemocratic?

For those who haven't been following OZ politics all sorts of menacers of parliament house and reps and senate are either being ruled out by the high court or resigning as suddenly realised the constitution prevents dual citizens from sitting. And the conservatives has stacked the court with literalists recently. So those who parents where born elsewhere and never renounced citizen are citizens by descent.

The Government could be horribly exposed lacking the numbers in the final weeks of sitting this year, which is why Turnbull has reduced the time parliament will sit.

Turnbull is now talking tax cuts, going into government saying they would balance the budget , having blown it out even more, and committed to cutting business tax rights, just how in the hell can they balance the budget now? Turnbull trying bride the electorate he is desperate, financial responsibility?

Then he was on the Radio and mention the passing of AC/DC member Malcolm Young and then could not name a single ACDC song. Way to seem massively out of touch, already portrayed with a silver spoon, does he staff not brief him at all?

if the opposition leader wasn't such a Nothing man, Bill Shorten this Government could be in bad bad trouble.
#14866827
Turnbill has now rolled over to have a royal commission into the banking sector after saying it would a waste of money earlier in the week. Thought looks like he's talked to the banks about suitable frames of reference. Well if setup how the banks want it will be a waster of money.
#14867732
@pugsville I must agree with your view of Shorten. Why did Labor select a cardboard cut out to lead them? I can’t see the Libs losing unless the electorate is really hurting. Labor is too faceless and bland to hold people’s attention.

Of course the public should be judging their local rep on policy.
#14867886
foxdemon wrote:@pugsville I must agree with your view of Shorten. Why did Labor select a cardboard cut out to lead them? I can’t see the Libs losing unless the electorate is really hurting. Labor is too faceless and bland to hold people’s attention.

Of course the public should be judging their local rep on policy.


Neither of the Major Parties inspires much confidence. But it's more noticeable when you meant to be in Government. Turnbull would not want anything else to blow up in his face. They knife Turnbull they will done and done badly, which is the only thing saving him from his own party.

Hard to say an election would be close. Australian Electorate in General right now isn't too big on giving a Government a couple terms very easily. my Money would be on some sort of hung Parliament. Minor party support isn't gaping away Greens on the left, One Nation on the right, will notion many seats but preferences flow back will be vital.

What worries me is the extremely low number of first preference votes some of the senators now sitting have gotten 17? 17 votes, it's backroom deals and preferences rather than democracy though I don't know of a real solution. A qualifier ? discard all those with less than 1000 first preference votes before allocating preferences? (dunno)

The Labour internal politics is dominated by Factions, you get to the top by wading through the morass the best. Doesn't seem to be throwing up much in the way of good leadership. Albo more likeable, Penny Wong I respect, thats about it, there's a few I don't mind. The Libs are mostly awful, Dutton, Brandis are just very objectionable people. Barnaby or Bishop if I had to choose, The libs are barely a political movement, the branches barely function at all, sees more than the usual number of whacky sorts rise up.

We're not getting a very high standard of Minister or Shadow Minister, my memory says it was a bit better in the past (but do I trust it?)
#14870299
Barnaby or Bishop if I had to choose

Sorry Pugs...Barnaby is a National so would never have the opportunity. The only lib I see who seems to be "principled" is Andrew Hastie. Unfortunately I fear that he will lose his seat at the next election along with up to 6 other West Australian MP's.

As a conservative it pains me to say that WA is likely to see a huge swing against Turnbull and the liberals.

As for Labor, I think if they changed to Albo the next election would be in the bag.......Shorten gives turnbull a chance.

FS
#14889471
Coalition Government bleeding and infighting form another scandal. There not doing much of a job of governing themselves let alone the country,

The Deputy PM Barnaby Joyce (National party - different the Prime Mister Turnbull from the Liberal party it's a collation, the Liberals and Nats have been a long term coalition in oz politics for decades) was having affair with one of his advisors, who he got pregnant and let his wide for, during this period she was shuffled through various Government members staff, it's been a scandal.

The PM Turnbull has poured a bucket on his coalition partner and deputy Prime Minister Joyce about this yesterday, and Joyce fired back today.
#14889519
pugsville wrote:Coalition Government bleeding and infighting form another scandal. There not doing much of a job of governing themselves let alone the country,

The Deputy PM Barnaby Joyce (National party - different the Prime Mister Turnbull from the Liberal party it's a collation, the Liberals and Nats have been a long term coalition in oz politics for decades) was having affair with one of his advisors, who he got pregnant and let his wide for, during this period she was shuffled through various Government members staff, it's been a scandal.

The PM Turnbull has poured a bucket on his coalition partner and deputy Prime Minister Joyce about this yesterday, and Joyce fired back today.



Poor old Barnaby. I think he is doing a great job demonstrating to guys why it might be prudent to keep ‘it’ in the pants if one values one’s reputation.


As to Turnbull, dispite his best efforts to destroy Political conservatism, divide the coalition against itself and generally weaken the government of the day, one can not help but be amazed by Labor’s inability to gain voters support under these circumstances. Why is Labor so intrinsically undesirable?

At least there is some good news. Molan has joined the Senate. At last we will see some hawkish militarism in parliament. The Greens must be ecstatic to have such a fine sparing partner.
#14895731
foxdemon wrote:
As to Turnbull, dispite his best efforts to destroy Political conservatism, divide the coalition against itself and generally weaken the government of the day, one can not help but be amazed by Labor’s inability to gain voters support under these circumstances. Why is Labor so intrinsically undesirable?


Define "instrinsically undesirable". According to newspoll, labor's primary vote is around 38%, which is up from the low 30s around the last election. But I agree, how do you explain the coalition still maintaining a similar vote, given all the bumbling around by Turnbull (they are both about neck and neck on primary vote). I guess there are a lot of rusted-on - mostly really old people who have voted liberal all their lives in their leafy inner and norther suburbs in Sydney - and crucially, little access to, and little interest in getting access to real information about the trully appalling state of this government. The Bennelong by election, and the dissapointing swing for labor (only about 4-5%) is a good snapshot of just how many blind, ignorant people there are out there.
#14895872
Intrinsic: belonging to a thing by its very nature.

Undesirable: not wanted by virtue of being harmful, objectionable or unpleasant.

In this context, the Labor party is, by its nature, not wanted due to being harmful, objectionable and unpleasant.


The big question though, is why?


Might it be the controlling influence of certain career politicians and advisors, such as Shorten and Keneally, who embody this intrinsic undesirability?

Though the Liberal party has problems, their infighting shows there is a battle of ideas going on. They look dynamic. The Labor party looks characterless and shallow.

The world is changing and there are big issues that must be addressed.

1/ the changing balance of global power.

2/ the trend toward increasing socio-economic inequality.

3/ climate change.

4/ transformative technology.


People won’t vote for Labor until they start talking about how they intend to address these issues. All Shorten and Keneally know is how to play the numbers, sling mud, and attempt to gain popularity. They are politicians and nothing else.

If we look at former Labor administrations, like Curtin/Chifley, Whitlam, Hawke/Keating, they all had ideas. They also had cabinets full of competent people. All Shorten and Keneally have to offer is political games.

Turnbull should be easy to knock off. Look at his mistakes like the NBN. His leadership isn’t anything to write home about. It is simply that he has no opposition. Well, apart from Abbott, but they are in the same party.

Here is an idea for Labor. Try putting Wong in charge and let her collect some decent people around her. Labor’s fortunes might turn around. Politicians like Shorten, who basically inherited his connections, really don’t cut it in times of change. He might have done OK in the 60s when things were stable. Today, he and Keneally are just occupying seats which would be better off occupied by somebody else.
#14896209
foxdemon wrote:The Labor party looks characterless and shallow.


I disagree. The labor party has released more policy announcements - many of them pretty bold - than any other opposition since fightback. Furthermore, they are positioning themselves with a clear socio-economic vision that for the first time in living memory starts to challenge the status quo of the neo-liberal economic order. I have no idea where you got the idea that the coalition is looking "dynamic", what you apparently see as a healthy "battle of ideas" is not much more than the two factions tearing each other apart for control of the caucus. Their policies are anything but dynamic - simply stale, rehashed conservative/neo-liberal economic austerity measures, sprinkled with the usual national security chest beating. They are on the wrong side of history. Neo-liberalism is on its death bed, and labor - thanks to a reinvigorated left/socialist push both within and without the party - will usher in the new seedlings of a new socio-economic approach: where hopefully attacks on public health, tax breaks for the mega rich, slashing welfare for the poor will be things of the past. Seeing labor's bold vision and policy initiative makes me feel excited for the future.
#14896232
GandalfTheGrey wrote:I disagree. The labor party has released more policy announcements - many of them pretty bold - than any other opposition since fightback. Furthermore, they are positioning themselves with a clear socio-economic vision that for the first time in living memory starts to challenge the status quo of the neo-liberal economic order. I have no idea where you got the idea that the coalition is looking "dynamic", what you apparently see as a healthy "battle of ideas" is not much more than the two factions tearing each other apart for control of the caucus. Their policies are anything but dynamic - simply stale, rehashed conservative/neo-liberal economic austerity measures, sprinkled with the usual national security chest beating. They are on the wrong side of history. Neo-liberalism is on its death bed, and labor - thanks to a reinvigorated left/socialist push both within and without the party - will usher in the new seedlings of a new socio-economic approach: where hopefully attacks on public health, tax breaks for the mega rich, slashing welfare for the poor will be things of the past. Seeing labor's bold vision and policy initiative makes me feel excited for the future.



Woah! Steady on there Gandalf or your excitement will make you dizzy and you’ll fall over.

To help you calm down a little, I will draw your attention to the fact that it was Keating who introduced economic rationalism (neo-liberalism to everyone else) to Australia. For the last few decades a Labor has been just as much responsible for neo-liberal policies. Is this new found leftism really a sincere return to traditional Labor values? The debate in the Liberal party is redefining what the party will come. Perhaps Labor would also benefit from some honest disagreements between factions?


I don’t see why anyone would be excited about the future. There are many harsh and challenging years ahead. Back to the big issues....


How do you think these issues should be addressed?


1/ changes in global geo politics

2/ rising levels on inequality

3/ climate change

4/ new technologies
#14898050
foxdemon wrote:Is this new found leftism really a sincere return to traditional Labor values?


In a way, I think it is - but perhaps minus the 'sincere' part. Shorten is no ideologue - he is pretty much the exact opposite of an ideologue. This can be both good and bad - good because he is not ideologically bound to conservative agendas like tax cuts for the rich - although he is frequently labelled as to the right. But it also means he is not instinctively predisposed to a tradition labor agenda. Nontheless, there is no denying that the public mood has shifted away from neoliberal orthodoxy: up till now its mostly been via old white racists railing against political correctness and who show their disdain by voting One Nation. But more recently we are seeing a growing rumbling from young people - people who are educated and progressive, and who are experiencing first hand the inequality being created by the generational divide. These people are basically permanently locked out of the housing market, and also locked out of full-time, secure work - despite the fact that they are smart and well qualified - and probably work much harder than their much better off parents. Its these people who are starting to force real change in the political sphere. And we saw in Batman that these people aren't necessarily a sure-thing Greens voter - but are prepared to back a progressive labor candidate, standing against the Greens.

This is where politiics is heading in the coming decades. I'm fairly confident that the dissent against neoliberalism will break out into open revolt. But the future is not with far-right reactionaries like Hanson who have little concern for the actual issues of the 21st century - global challenges like the environment, mass movement of people due to poverty and war, nuclear weapons etc - not to mention structural problems related to neoliberal agendas that lock people out of permanent work and housing. Clearly the Bill Shorten's of this world won't bat an eyelid in pandering to where the votes are at, and will move their party to wherever votes can be found. At that point, the liberal party as it stands now will become completely irrelevant. And there won't be Rupert Murdoch to sell their pro-rich agenda for long (or any strong, right wing traditional media). I think its inevitable that the so called political "centre" will shift markedly to the left - the greens may or may not survive, but inevitably much of their space will be occupied by labor. The liberals will also need to move significantly to the left - and will probably permanently fracture.
#14941455
Looks like anotehr Australian Prime minister will be knifedby his pwn party before serving his full term.

Turnbull, Abbot, Gillard, Rudd two of each variety,

See the Liberal party (this time) is keen to lsitit's own political throat for no reason what so ever. Incapable of working together.

The trouble is coming fromm the right of the liberal party who insist on pretty whack policies.
#14941920
Why is no one talking about the current Australian LNP government explosion?

There has been a failed challenged, 10 ministers have resigned and the main Challenger the solicitor general isn't that sure he's eligible to sit in Parliament.

We're trying desperately to be as crazy as US politics and we still don't get any cut through. What do you have to do?
#14941939
pugsville wrote:Why is no one talking about the current Australian LNP government explosion?

There has been a failed challenged, 10 ministers have resigned and the main Challenger the solicitor general isn't that sure he's eligible to sit in Parliament.

We're trying desperately to be as crazy as US politics and we still don't get any cut through. What do you have to do?


Just posted the thread on it in Today's News.... Which you maybe should have done.

The forum is simply less popular now mate. Should post this in the main visited forums. The Aussie subforum is dead quiet now mate.
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