The plight of the Uyghur people.... - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues in the People's Republic of China.

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#14967018
Red_Army wrote:So why is Bolivia's access to the Pacific Ocean important to you?

Have you looked at a map recently ?
Chile has like a thousand miles of coastline and they stole the little coastline Bolivia had as an outlet to the sea.
It is heart-wrenching.
Besides, the Bolivian ladies wear those cute men's hats.
Every time an earthquake hits Chile I have a small celebration in my house. :D
#14967621
Oxymandias wrote:@Truth To PowerIslam has literally assimilated into every single culture it has come into contact with

No, it has eradicated every single culture it has conquered.
which is why Islam is so diverse in the first place.

It is not diverse.
Iran still has traditions that have remained for centuries before Islam even existed and they're still here today.

But in every important aspect of cultural life, Iran is like Saudi Arabia.
India is similar

No, because India is still majority Hindu and only a small minority Muslim.
and so is Central Asia, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, etc.

No; where Islam dominates, all other culture is eradicated, such as in North Africa and most of the Middle East. Sub-Saharan Africa still only has a small Muslim minority.
You probably can't even tell me the five pillars of Islam off the top of your head.

Wrong: submission to Allah's will and acceptance of Mohammed as his definitive and final prophet and spokesman; saying five prayers a day; fasting for Ramadan; zakat (charity); and the hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca).
You don't even know basic Islamic history.

Wrong.
You're speaking directly from ignorance.

Wrong.
#14967677
@Truth To Power

No, it has eradicated every single culture it has conquered.


Give evidence. Prove it.

It is not diverse.


Like I said, you're speaking from ignorance. However, without going into 1000 years of cultural development, if the Islamic world isn't diverse, why does sectarianism exist at all? Why did the entire Islamic world unite like Japan or China?

But in every important aspect of cultural life, Iran is like Saudi Arabia.


TIL "Iran is just like Saudi Arabia in every way!"

First off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Iran

Second, Iran is a theocratic republic while Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy. Iran has a completely different history from Saudi Arabia, different architecture (which isn't just "sand dunes durr" like you think it is, no Islamic country has sand dunes as a form of architecture ignorant idiot), different art, different philosophy, etc.

You just don't know anything about Iranian culture. You couldn't even name me a famous Persian miniature painter or an Iranian food and if you did, you would be contradicting yourself because then Iran wouldn't be like Saudi Arabia in every single way.

No, because India is still majority Hindu and only a small minority Muslim.


While I was referring to India as a region, in India the modern country Islam is the second largest religion in India habibi which is saying something given how a large portion of the world's population lives in India. In India the region which consists of Pakistan plus all other South Eastern countries, Islam makes up the majority.

No; where Islam dominates, all other culture is eradicated, such as in North Africa and most of the Middle East. Sub-Saharan Africa still only has a small Muslim minority.


That's because you don't know anything about North Africa or the Middle East. You think it's all "sand dunes, turbans, and bombs" like a fucking five year old who watched the Lawrence of Arabia once and thinks he's an expert on Islam. No, not even that, you're some five year old that read that shitty 1950s Lawrence of Arabia comic that took place in a desert that looks like Arizona and had all the Muslims be evil zombie looking guys and then came off of that thinking you know everything about Islam.

North Africa has such a fundamentally different dialect from most other Arabic dialects that it's pretty much it's own language. Most of the population in North Africa are Arabo-Berbers and have their own art, philosophy, architecture, etc. which shares a lot with Spain in many situations given how North Africans colonized Spain during the Caliphate.

Just read this wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_North_Africa

Also, you're statement about Sub-Saharan Africa is false when you consider that:

http://www.mappery.com/maps/Islam-in-Af ... mthumb.jpg

Islam is the majority religion for most of Sub-Saharan Africa and it was even more widespread until Christianity came along and killed everyone.

submission to Allah's will


You don't submit to Allah when you do this. You only admit that Allah is the only god thus affirming monotheism. This is a big thing in Islam which is against polytheism.

submission to Allah's will and acceptance of Mohammed as his definitive and final prophet and spokesman;


Tell what Muslims call that.

saying five prayers a day


You don't say five prayers a day.

Wrong


Who was Zaid ibn Haritha's wife? What is the Majils-ash-Shura? What was Muhammad's profession prior to Islam? Who is the name of the slave Muhammed freed and then later converted to Islam? Why did the Ridda Wars start? How did Shi'ism start from the beginning? What is the name of the rivals of Muhammad who also claimed to be prophets? At what time period were depictions of Muhammed prominent during the Islamic world?

If you know Islamic history you should know the answers to these questions.

Wrong.


Says the man who thinks that there is no difference culturally between a Persian and an Arabian "because Islam". Apparently you aren't speaking from ignorance despite me being an Iranian and well aware of the cultural differences between Iranians and Saudi fucking Arabians. Saudi Arabians don't even have a culture and that's not because of Islam but because it is an artificial state created by the British to fight for it's interests.
#14967757
Both Islam and Han racist, expansionist, Imperialism are evil. In fact they are two of the great evils of the world today. However I think it is tactically correct to side with the Khazakstani resistance against the Han genociders, as it was tactically correct to side with the Afghan Mujahadine against the Soviet Union and to earlier side with the Joseph Stalin against Hitler in June 41.
#14968942
Ter wrote:They call their Chinese Province "East Turkestan".
We can see where this is going.
Separatism.
I fully support the Chinese Authorities acting pro-actively to destroy those separatist ambitions in the bud. Same same in Myanmar, same same in South Thailand, same same in Mindanao in the Phillipines.
Only China has the guts to do something about it.
Long live China !
Long Live the squashing of Muslim separatism !
:excited: :D


It really depends on the reason behind said separatism.

I have no comment on the things in Xinjiang. That's purely down to the matter of who could fight better.

In Hong Kong it is another story. Separatism in Hong Kong only stems from the bad performance and atrocious treatment of the freedom-loving Hong Kong people by the Chinese authorities and their representatives in Hong Kong. Although brute force would also be the final answer if the Commies do not change their way, this one is solvable through peaceful means. Unfortunately the Chinese Commies think themselves are almighty forever, which Trump (and whoever takes over from him, regardless of their stance towards Trump) will probably prove them wrong.
#14968978
If the idea is to squash Muslims, then you should allow them autonomy first. We live in a strange world where it is more acceptable to declare war on another country than it is to kill just one of your own.
#14968987
One Degree wrote:We live in a strange world where it is more acceptable to declare war on another country than it is to kill just one of your own.

Well if its strange, then its been strange for hundreds of millions of years, because that's essentially the attitude of all higher animals. To favour one's kinship group over others. Its funny because on the one hand you seem to be against vast multi national, multi ethnic, multi racial, multi cultural empires, but it was under these large empires that universalism arose. Christianity and Buddhism just being two of the big survivors of the numerous human universalist religions and philosophies that sprung up within these empires.

The independent city states like early Republican Rome and the tribal confederations like the Israelites that preceded these big empires, were distinctly lacking in human universalist spirit.
#14968990
Rich wrote:Well if its strange, then its been strange for hundreds of millions of years, because that's essentially the attitude of all higher animals. To favour one's kinship group over others. Its funny because on the one hand you seem to be against vast multi national, multi ethnic, multi racial, multi cultural empires, but it was under these large empires that universalism arose. Christianity and Buddhism just being two of the big survivors of the numerous human universalist religions and philosophies that sprung up within these empires.

The independent city states like early Republican Rome and the tribal confederations like the Israelites that preceded these big empires, were distinctly lacking in human universalist spirit.


I don’t see the conflict. My view has always been it is the fluctuating between these two states that creates the cycle of violence. My ideas are intended to combine them in a way to end the cycle. A universalist view does not require a universal structure. It is the confusion of equality with compatibility.
#14968995
I'm kinda disturbed by some on the Right on this thread playing defense for the Red-Communists in China persecuting the Muslims in this manner, and I say this coming from someone who wants a New Crusade by the Christian West.

Communism, like Islam, are threats to western civilization, but this sort of statism is the means by which atheism and anti-traditionalist sentiments and decadent morality are expressed and furthered.

China has every right to close its borders to Muslims and to punish terrorism with the utmost severity, or even to permit discrimination; however, not allowing a people to seperate who do not want to be there and whom the Han-Chinese don't really want to have there is morally wrong.

Likewise, persecuting these people through "re-education" is likewise morally wrong and is an instance of unprovoked aggression against people with families and children who often just want to mind their own business.

The precedent this sets for the Christian community, is likewise disturbing. Christians have been growing exponentially in China largely as an act of solidarity against persecution, but persecution is nontheless a terrible thing for this peaceful community and China's willingness to do this to Uyghurs should be a terrible sign to the Christian populations that China is willing to go full-purge.

People aren't playing this up enough, but by Xi's making himself dictator for life, expanding in the South China Sea, and persecuting the Uyghurs in this way, we are clearly seeing the rise/return of a serious totalitarian state prepping for an age of expansionist conquest and genocide.

Perhaps hating Islamic extremism and being sympathetic to the cultural restorationism "attempted" by far-right statists (like Fascists) has polluted the thinking of some right-wing posters on here, but Red-China becoming more totalitarian and persecuting traditionalist peoples, of any stripe, is not a positive development and should be universally condemned. Full-Stop.

Likewise, I like how feckless and soft some lefties are acting on here in reaction to this: Basically saying "I don't like this, but there is nothing you can do, so whatevs."

Great attitude.

This sort of sentiment is indicative of the left's fear of condemning actual wickedness on their own side because they fear they "will be praised by the wrong side."

This entire thread is just a sad case of either moral-cowardice caused by an attempt to be a team-player or a blindness caused by the hobgoblin of little minds.
#14969000
Victoribus Spolia wrote:.....


Yes, if you really care about human rights, you would denounce this behavior. However, most people, even the crazy liberals don't care about human rights.

yes China is a real danger to the entire planet with their non-cooperative and insular nature. Nonetheless, as with this specific issue, there's not much anyone can do really.

Question, do you think there will be some sort of major war between China and the rest of the world? I don't think so, I feel like their strength is also a great weakness that will ultimately bring them down.
#14969005
Rancid wrote:do you think there will be some sort of major war between China and the rest of the world?


I think a war between China and the United States is almost inevitable given historic precedent.

There has been somewhere near a dozen instances in human history where a dominant civilization came to butt heads with a formidable rising power and in nearly every single one of those instances war resulted with only a couple of exceptions.

Who will would win? Who knows, obviously the U.S. is economically and militarily able to beat the fuck out of China, but this does not guarantee victory as the size and advancement of one's military rarely guarantees such, as most guerrilla conflicts and underdog-upsets have taught us since the beginning of time.

The war will come, its only a question of when.

I am hoping such will be a catalyst that will guarantee western collapse (given my views of things), but who knows.
#14969010
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I think a war between China and the United States is almost inevitable given historic precedent.


I'm not as convinced as you. I also feel like China would war with Russia before the US. The bigger China gets, the more of a threat it is to Russia. It will strain and end their cooperative against the west.

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