Fetal heartbeat and the abortion fight - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15005239
So, are you going to start charging women who miss-carry for murder? Will there be a police investigation?
#15005243
I'm not strictly pro-life but I think it's beneficial for people to understand the philosophical underpinnings of the pro-life movement.

While being a moderate on abortion myself, I find the narcissism that sometimes characterizes the abortion movement (people who use aborting their own children to glorify themselves and tweak the noses of those who disagree with them) to be very distasteful and generally unwise.

The pro-life movement appears to be made up of two overlapping camps, the "every life is sacred" camp and the abstinence camp.

The sacredness of life camp may be naive but from a simple perspective, they are not philosophically wrong. As such, they can't really be disagreed with from the "abortion is power" point of view (which is a sick and harmful type of narcissism) and they certainly can't be disagreed with by people who think that killing cows and chickens is wrong.

The abstinence camp believes that self-control in sexual matters is socially and spiritually beneficial. They would be correct, however a lot of populations are simply not on a level where they could benefit from such a thing and trying to force them into something they will not benefit from may be a mistake.

So there's my two cents :)
#15005245
Hong wu wrote:I find the narcissism that sometimes characterizes the abortion movement (people who use aborting their own children to glorify themselves and tweak the noses of those who disagree with them) to be very distasteful and generally unwise.
Can you please provide a source to this claim? I've never heard of someone "glorifying" abortion and I doubt this happens. I'd find it more than distasteful and unwise, but then I doubt this actually happens.

Hong wu wrote:The abstinence camp believes that self-control in sexual matters is socially and spiritually beneficial.
That's really great until you do have sex, the birth control fails, or you are in a situation where you unwisely forget or overlook it, and you end up with a pregnancy. Most people do not engage in abstinence because it's simply not as easy as it sounds.

I'm for letting people decide for themselves, and if you can accept the decision to abort, or not, then that's completely up to you, not some other person.

I do not disagree with you on other things, and I have never known people to use abortion as birth control. That would be wrong, on many levels. Yet, people are human, and do make stupid decisions and mistakes. We have to remember that.
#15005249
Becker is the guy from the recent Ohio attempt to pass a similarly oppressive forced birth bill but that's not important. What's important is that this is the level of thought and effort that all the male state senators of respective state legislatures put into said bills

Image

These are people who obviously care about the opinions of medical professionals and women so we should definitely engage them in intellectual debate instead of ridiculing them out of existence and ensuring their stupid views are never met with anything short of contempt.

Like, these aren't just concerned citizens. These are state assembly members who are nominally acting in the interest of their citizens. You'd think maybe they would talk to a single fucking doctor to get an idea of what they're ruling on. I don't think it's too much to ask them that they at least have an intern print out a Wikipedia article or something that makes it sound like they aren't just rubber stamping some women hating political group's cookie cutter bill.
Last edited by SpecialOlympian on 17 May 2019 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
#15005250
Godstud wrote:Can you please provide a source to this claim? I've never heard of someone "glorifying" abortion and I doubt this happens. I'd find it more than distasteful and unwise, but then I doubt this actually happens.

...

I do not disagree with you on other things, and I have never known people to use abortion as birth control. That would be wrong, on many levels. Yet, people are human, and do make stupid decisions and mistakes. We have to remember that.

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bann ... -abortions

Bro how can you not think that there are people who glorify abortion or use it as birth control? It's practically everywhere on the internet and even larger scale stuff like Netflix.
#15005252
Hong Wu knows the contours of the female form so well that he understands how easy it is for women in states where abortion access is aggressively restricted use a 200 mile drive to the abortion clinic as birth control, simple and easy as taking the pill.
Last edited by SpecialOlympian on 17 May 2019 06:35, edited 1 time in total.
#15005253
So... a comedian.... :eh:

You know how subjective humour is. Why do you think comedy is the basis for this "claim"?

@Hong Wu Can you quote a situation where this was NOT done with comedic intent?
#15005256
Rancid wrote:This could set us back decades. :hmm:

Set who back decades? And how? Who cares what happens in Alabama?

Suntzu wrote:The abortion rate in Mexico, for instance, is higher than in the U.S.

Mexico isn't exactly known for law and order... :roll:

Suntzu wrote:Anti-abortion laws stop safe abortions. :roll:

Anti-robbery laws stop safe robbery. :roll:

Godstud wrote:I've never heard of someone "glorifying" abortion and I doubt this happens.

Abortion is just a rite of human sacrifice--a cornerstone of Paganism. However, Pagans do not want to admit that they are into that sort of thing, so they manufacture this "women's rights" narrative and yammer on endlessly about it.
#15005257
blackjack21 wrote:Abortion is just a rite of human sacrifice--a cornerstone of Paganism. However, Pagans do not want to admit that they are into that sort of thing, so they manufacture this "women's rights" narrative and yammer on endlessly about it.
Melodramatic clap-trap! :lol: Did a pagan feminist hurt your feelings?
#15005262
Godstud wrote:So, are you going to start charging women who miss-carry for murder?


If you give a fetus personhood they might have to. Or at least manslaughter or gross negligence. The fetus suddenly has the same rights as anyone else. Which means a coroners report.
#15005263
A 99 year sentence for a woman who gets an abortion, yet it’s only a 10 year sentence for a man who committed rape, typically out in 5. Ponder that misogyny for a hot second.
#15005265
B0ycey wrote:If you give a fetus personhood they might have to. Or at least manslaughter or gross negligence. The fetus suddenly has the same rights as anyone else. Which means a coroners report.


But if we do that women will just drive in the passenger lanes on the highway, and will be encouraged to do so because being pregnant is easy and fun.
#15005272
Godstud wrote:Melodramatic clap-trap!

Pfffft. You claim people cannot help having sex. Talk about melodramatic. Sex takes a deliberate effort. It's easier to do nothing than it is to have sex. Are you seriously going to contend that abortion is necessary, because people just can't control themselves or another person with respect to having sex outside the context of being raped? How about advocating for self control and refraining from killing people because you can't control yourself?

Alcoholics can't seem to help drinking and driving either. Yet, they get punished if they kill somebody for their lack of self control. 8)

redcarpet wrote:A 99 year sentence for a woman who gets an abortion, yet it’s only a 10 year sentence for a man who committed rape, typically out in 5. Ponder that misogyny for a hot second.

They are talking about prosecuting doctors for performing abortions--a commercial activity. That's another one of the sheer absurdities of Roe v. Wade. It makes no legal sense to argue that you can control by license who can or cannot be a doctor, but you cannot regulate a doctor's actions. It's straight commerce, and there is plenary authority to regulate commerce.

Personally, I have no objections to hanging rapists; although, I think firing squads are much more romantic. Noemon Edit: Severe Rules 1 & 3 Violations.
Last edited by blackjack21 on 17 May 2019 07:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15005273
:roll: Sex is a natural human drive. To pretend that's not true is to deny human nature.

Comparing not having sex, to not killing people is ridiculous. One doesn't harm people(I am talking about consensual sex between adults, not rape), while the other does. You're comparing apple to sofas.
#15005274
Godstud wrote::roll: Sex is a natural human drive.

Killing unborn children is not a natural human drive. For many people, alcoholism is also a natural occurrence as is over-eating. Frustration-aggression responses are also natural. Yet, we punish violence. If you become angry with someone, it's natural to want to hurt them. Natural drives are not a moral excuse for hurting or killing people. However, what is moral and what is legal are rarely congruent anymore. That is why many of us no longer look at government as a force for good.

Godstud wrote:Comparing not having sex, to not killing people is ridiculous.

I'm saying you should not use your lack of self control as an excuse to kill people. The lack of self control to have or not have sex outside the context of rape is a matter of personal responsibility. Those of us who do not accept hedonism as a moral code generally do not accept the arguments on natural drives. Hunger is a natural thing too. That doesn't mean you get to kill your neighbor and eat him. People seem to get proscriptions on cannibalism. Most people don't kill their unborn either. Yet, there is a very dark and sinister urging by some people to get other people in difficult circumstances to kill their unborn children. It's macabre and twisted. They rarely ever tell such people that they are very likely to face clinical depression after the fact, too. There should be a surgeon's general warning about things like that, because leftists are sinister people.
#15005278
blackjack21 wrote:I'm saying you should not use your lack of self control as an excuse to kill people.
I see you don't understand the English language, so conversing with you further is a waste of time.

Sex does not equal murder, no matter where you live.
#15005280
Godstud wrote::roll: Sex is a natural human drive. To pretend that's not true is to deny human nature.

Comparing not having sex, to not killing people is ridiculous. One doesn't harm people(I am talking about consensual sex between adults, not rape), while the other does. You're comparing apple to sofas.

Sexual pleasure can be obtained without doing it in the way that impregnates the woman that results in reproduction. If natural reproduction is not the goal, then sexual activity should be done in a manner to avoid pregnancy.
#15005283
I agree @Hindsite, and yet it happens, anyhow, doesn't it?

As I already said, humans are flawed and make mistakes.
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