Does China Owe Reparations for Coronavirus? - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Does China Owe Reparations for Coronavirus?

1. Yes, they do.
10
29%
3. No.
23
68%
4. Other
1
3%
#15080650
Godstud wrote:Again, you're blaming China for a disease that is nigh impossible to contain, as is evident by it being in every country in the world. Pretending a disease can't skip over borders is ridiculous, and since it can be transmitted before symptoms show. make it even harder to contain.. Even if China had responded perfectly, it's extremely unlikely that they could have contained it.

Blaming China for failing to contain a disease, that's extremely easy to transmit, is just STUPID.

SHOULD NOT, is the proper response.

Why don't you just admit that you fucking hate China and that makes you extremely prejudiced against them, @Patrickov. You're practically racist in your hatred that you've shown. Forget the feelings and deal with facts.

I will deal with the part of your post that isn't a childish rant, @Finfinder
USA had accurate enough information to declare it a pandemic well before it was done. They had as much time as Taiwan did and look how well they handled it.

Ah, back to insults since you aren't nearly smart enough to have any kind argument. Speak for yourself. I served my country. Did you?

Stick to tugging President Bonespurs off. It's about all your kind are capable of.


First you are the one who cannot make a post without name calling or insulting Admin Edit: Rule 16 Violation. Yellow Card.


Image


I make sure I don't do that stop lying about that ,everyone can see for themselves.

Second its because the Chinese are fucking liars. That is why. The Chinese lied to the world and delayed response times.

Some ex-patriot from Canada now living in Thailand shiting all over the American presidents handling of this is beyond stupid and I'm calling you out on it. Don't confuse your thin skin feelings with me calling you out on your bullshit and taking sides with communist liars China. They lie about everything.

Oh gee going now going to call me a racist, rule number one in the liberal debate forum handbook. LOL

What the fuck do you know :D I have traveled to China many times for business I do business with the Chinese for 20 years. You know what I found out? They are fucking liars. I love the Chinese people they treat me well when I visit. The people verses the government (and doing business they lie all the time ) is completely different. So now that I took that stupid angel away from you what kind of bull shit excuse are you going to make for the Chinese and to blame Trump for now? You actually think people buy the shit your trying to spread? LOL :D :lol:
#15080652
Finfinder wrote:Some ex-patriot from Canada now living in Thailand shiting all over the American presidents handling of this is beyond stupid ...


I strongly disagree with his points and he accuses me racist because of that, but I respect him immensely as a person / debater. This accusation is really low.
#15080654
Patrickov wrote:I strongly disagree with his points and he accuses me racist because of that, but I respect him immensely as a person / debater. This accusation is really low.



What part of it is low in fact what part of it is untrue?Do you have crush on me Patrickov you seem to do this to me often mind adressing the post and not the poster ?

@Godstud can handle himself I respect him and he respects me we have posted against each other for a few years he can take it doesn't need your protection.
#15080673
Patrickov wrote:Reparations: Yes to Americans, but probably not the world, because other countries do not get sabotaged by Trump, but either China or themselves.

War: I agree that it cannot be effectively done without defeating China, and even after that they can play the pushy-pushy game like the Japanese had done in the past few decades. As far as I concern the poll only asks "does China owe it", not "can we force China to pay it".


It would be interesting to do a poll of the global south or Asia asking if they think the US owes the rest of the world reparations for its post-WWII behavior. China, like all big nation-states, basically sucks, but the US is not in a good position to be wagging the finger at anybody. That's one of the reasons the whole sanctions regime it's pushing on various countries is so offensive.
#15080680
quetzalcoatl wrote:It would be interesting to do a poll of the global south or Asia asking if they think the US owes the rest of the world reparations for its post-WWII behavior. China, like all big nation-states, basically sucks, but the US is not in a good position to be wagging the finger at anybody. That's one of the reasons the whole sanctions regime it's pushing on various countries is so offensive.


Who should make the claim is irrelevant, and the question in the above quote is definitely unrelated. However, I would say those surrounding China (Japan, South and North Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia) have the biggest rights to hold China to account this time.
#15080798
It was at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, where the coronavirus first jumped from a bat to a human, but Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand, Burma, Indonesia and Laos all have a culture of selling exotic animals at wet markets. Austroasiatic peoples in Southeast and East Asia do share the same culinary culture. Probably this peculiar culinary tradition originated in the native tribes in Papua New Guinea and Australia, where flying bats are captured for their meat to prepare food. For the natives, catching bats is a matter of survival. Bats have been hunted by Aboriginal Australians for tens of thousands of years, extending into modern times. It is likely that the bat-eating tradition was introduced to China thousands of years ago by dark-skinned Austroasiatic tribes who are common in southern China, where bats can be found in some markets.



Abstract
A questionnaire survey and literature review revealed the extent of hunting of bats for bushmeat in the Old World tropics. High levels of offtake were reported throughout Asia, the Pacific islands and some Western Indian Ocean islands, where fruit bats of the genus Pteropus are eaten extensively. Most hunting in Africa was reported in western states and the largest fruit bat Eidolon helvum was preferred. Insectivorous bats are also eaten, particularly Tadarida in Asia. Hunting is both for local consumption and commercial, sometimes involving cross-border transactions. The high levels of hunting reported and the low reproductive rate of bats indicate there are likely to be severe negative effects on bat populations, and declines of several species are documented. Although there has been only one reported attempt to manage offtake, this indicates that it is possible and apparently successful. Furthermore, voluntary controls on hunting have halted declines in bat numbers. There have been several initiatives to reduce hunting pressure and conserve threatened bat species, mainly on islands that, when sustained, have been successful. More education projects and community-based conservation initiatives should be encouraged together with further attempts at sustainable harvesting in situations where disease risk has been evaluated.

Discussion
This review presents clear evidence that bat populations are seriously threatened by hunting for bushmeat in several countries, particularly Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines, and several islands in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. Unsurprisingly, the main target species are fruit bats of the genus Pteropus because they are the largest, roost in trees and forage on flowers, leaves or ripe fruit, so that their whereabouts are predictable. Reported levels of offtake in species with such a low reproductive rate is a matter of serious concern. In those mainland African countries in which bats are hunted, it is also the largest fruit bat species, E. helvum, that is targeted, and population declines have also been reported. Although bat faunas are richer in Central and South America the constituent species are small-bodied and there is little to suggest that hunting is widespread or is having a significant effect on populations.

Legislation to protect wildlife in the developing world is seldom effective by itself because of the difficulties of enforcement, and other approaches are necessary. However, national legislation to protect bats is preferable because its absence in some countries, such as India, where bats are classed as vermin, inhibits conservation action at some levels (Singaravelan et al., in press). Occasionally, the control of guns and ammunition has proved effective in preventing population declines of bats hunted for food, as in the Seychelles. Education programmes that emphasize the role of bats in providing ecosystem services are now widely implemented (Trewhella et al., 2005; O'Connor et al., 2006, Jenkins et al., 2007). Local communities often resent commercial hunters from outside the community taking bats from their neighbourhood, and community conservation programmes have proved particularly effective in Pemba and Madagascar. The most pressing requirement is for research into sustainable harvesting, particularly because the only managed harvest reported to date, that organized by Halstead (1977) in the campus of Ife University, Nigeria, appeared to have been effective. Voluntary controls of hunting in New Guinea (Cuthbert, 2003b) and Madagascar (Jenkins et al., 2007) have also been successful in halting declines in bat numbers.

The provision of reliable data on changes in population size, to measure the impact of hunting, requires well-designed monitoring programmes, which are particularly challenging to implement for bats forming large aggregations and moving between roosts. Where such long-term programmes are established, as in Uganda (Monadjem et al., 2007), they have documented declines that are seldom dramatic from year to year but over longer periods become a matter of serious concern. Similar monitoring programmes have been in operation over shorter periods in Madagascar (Jenkins et al., 2007). Long-term monitoring programmes are difficult to sustain in the tropics but are clearly needed.

Considering the widespread nature of hunting, there have been few studies on the relative importance of bats in the diet, i.e. to determine the extent to which it is an expensive luxury reserved for special occasions, as with the Chamorro on Guam, or adds variety to a diet that is not protein deficient. Elsewhere it may be a starvation food, as in south-west Madagascar (Goodman, 2006). Bat consumption driven by preference, rather than need, may require different interventions if conservation is to be successful.

The threat of pathogen transfer from bats to people is of growing concern. The discovery of asymptomatic Ebola virus infections in three species of pteropodids in West Africa (Leroy et al., 2005) raises concerns about the risk to humans of preparing bats for consumption. Appropriate surveillance for the presence of disease should be carried out before sustainable harvesting programmes are encouraged.

In conclusion we recommend: (1) Continuing surveys of the extent to which bats are taken as bushmeat and the incorporation of bats in surveys of general bushmeat consumption, recognizing that the supply chain for bat meat may differ from that for other bushmeat; these surveys should also evaluate the relative importance of bat bushmeat in the diet and the possible health risks of bat consumption. (2) Where none exists, national legislation should be introduced to protect bats or establish closed seasons for hunting, depending on the conservation status of the species concerned. (3) More education projects aimed at publicizing the importance of bats as pollinators and seed dispersers, and their role in forest ecology. (4) More community-based projects aimed at conserving local bat populations or, where appropriate, harvesting them sustainably.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... ore-reader
#15080832
@Finfinder Where I live, and my nationality is IRRELEVANT to all but the most small minded people.

I do not shit on everything American. Americans are some of the nicest people in the world and there are lots of things to admire about the USA, but their politics are not one of those things, and they have glaring flaws in their gun control, Healthcare system, etc. I rightly criticize American politics. I am knowledgeable about it.

You attacking me, by insinuating lies about my person, is a childish tactic. I served my country in the military. I pay taxes. I maintain a passport, and a residence in my home country. I am not trying to become a citizen of a foreign country. I support my country, but I do not, and will not, blindly agree with what my government does simply because I like the leader's crass behavior, and lying style.

I call it racist when you refer to "the Chinese" as opposed to the "Chinese Government", which is a separate entity. It is warranted. Expressing hate for "the Chinese" and blatant hatred, also pushes this to racism. If you are not racist, then stop posting like a racist.

Anecdotal evidence about Chinese businessmen does not give you knowledge of all Chinese people, @Finfinder. I know a German fellow who has dealt with both Chinese, Japanese, and others in the region. He has found that Americans are the most treacherous and deceitful when it comes to business practices. Anecdotal evidence, again.
#15080878
@Rancid Yep.

China and Vietnam finally ban wildlife trade due to coronavirus
If there can be a bright side to the coronavirus pandemic, which started in a “wet market” in Wuhan that sold live animals in deplorable conditions, it has finally spurred China and Vietnam to ban consumption of wild animals.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/china-and ... ronavirus/
#15080895
Donna wrote:Alienating China isn't going to get rid of the wet markets. Arguably it would make the situation worse.


Alienating China, Getting rid of the wet markets and Making the (epidemic I suppose) situation better or worse are three distinct concepts that interfere little, if at all, with each other.
#15080908
Rancid wrote:Didn't China say there were going to ban wet markets?


Yes, but it's easier said than done. They still pop up illegally, even as recently as this week. From some studies I've read they are difficult for authorities to control. I do think the government will develop a comprehensive strategy to crackdown on them.
#15080911
Donna wrote:Yes, but it's easier said than done. They still pop up illegally, even as recently as this week. From some studies I've read they are difficult for authorities to control. I do think the government will develop a comprehensive strategy to crackdown on them.


Its because the government dont give a shit about those markets.
#15081067
Godstud wrote:@Finfinder Where I live, and my nationality is IRRELEVANT to all but the most small minded people.

I do not shit on everything American. Americans are some of the nicest people in the world and there are lots of things to admire about the USA, but their politics are not one of those things, and they have glaring flaws in their gun control, Healthcare system, etc. I rightly criticize American politics. I am knowledgeable about it.

You attacking me, by insinuating lies about my person, is a childish tactic. I served my country in the military. I pay taxes. I maintain a passport, and a residence in my home country. I am not trying to become a citizen of a foreign country. I support my country, but I do not, and will not, blindly agree with what my government does simply because I like the leader's crass behavior, and lying style.

I call it racist when you refer to "the Chinese" as opposed to the "Chinese Government", which is a separate entity. It is warranted. Expressing hate for "the Chinese" and blatant hatred, also pushes this to racism. If you are not racist, then stop posting like a racist.

Anecdotal evidence about Chinese businessmen does not give you knowledge of all Chinese people, @Finfinder. I know a German fellow who has dealt with both Chinese, Japanese, and others in the region. He has found that Americans are the most treacherous and deceitful when it comes to business practices. Anecdotal evidence, again.


Finfinder wrote: I love the Chinese people they treat me well when I visit. The people verses the government (and doing business they lie all the time ) is completely different. LOL :D :lol:


I'm not going to get into this there is hardly a post you don't go with a personal attack. I really don't care about that. What I do care about is below.

Finfinder wrote: I love the Chinese people they treat me well when I visit. The people verses the government (and doing business they lie all the time ) is completely different. LOL :D :lol:



I don't get it I write this in my post and you read my post then respond as if I never did. It's not right or honest. What is the point debating if you completely ignore what I write then accuse me of not writing it. Its so strange. I even predicted in my response you would do this. I am simply looking for an honest debate if you want to have one fine but don't make up something when I clearly addressed in the post. It's just wrong.
#15081131
@Finfinder If you are looking for honest debate, then stick to the topic and stop making personal attacks upon me. So far, you have been far from honest in this debate.

My YOU has been general, as well, since Patrickov spits vitriol at China("Chinese"), whenever he can.

If you know some Chinese people and like them and have respect for them, then stop saying things like:
Finfinder wrote:Second its because the Chinese are fucking liars.


Finfinder wrote: They are fucking liars.

So, when you can start discussing the Chinese in some way that is not derogatory, I'll stop calling it what it is, Racism.
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