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Patrickov wrote:Does this question contains an assumption that all corporations are offshore tax havens abusers?
B0ycey wrote:My only issue is for the workers who lose their jobs.
So perhaps if they are bailed out they become national assets like RBS.
Patrickov wrote:For workers, it probably depends on what they are actually working for. Some work might not worth doing it.
I do agree that anybody who receives a bailout would have to compromise some of their independence.
B0ycey wrote:I would rather states control the assets for the next crisis.
Patrickov wrote:Ehhh... I will be careful on that wish. I would rather not have states like Russia or China controlling public assets. Their governments are as bad as those greedy take all bastards if not more.
B0ycey wrote:I was more talking about Western states. China and I suspect Russia already control "Public assets" and are more strict on offshoring that in terms of this poll are irrelevant.
Patrickov wrote:IMHO even Great Britain had not got a good experience on that (British Leyland, for example), although whether the change afterwards has been entirely good is also a subject of debate.
Kerry Packer wrote: I pay whatever tax I am required to pay under the law, not a penny more, not a penny less... if anybody in this country doesn't minimize their tax they want their heads read because as a government I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra.
Ter wrote: Virgin Atlantic is also looking for a multi billion bailout. It is privately owned by billionaire Richard Branson. How is this even considered ?
Rancid wrote:No, and any non-executive employees should get financial help if they lose their jobs because the company goes under.
It seems the oligarchs will wilter in current times. Bailouts for tax dodgers seems no more. Even Branson wants to collateral his Island for British tax payers money to bailout Virgin Atlantic. He didn't think much of British tax money when he embezzled his wealth and sued the NHS. Time to use some of your £4bn me thinks.
Any corporation that (like Lufthansa is now doing) threatens the government with going out of business or otherwise laying off employees en-masse during what has become a general financial collapse, should instead be promptly and automatically nationalized — taken over completely, at its then-prevailing stock-value . The only justification for anyone’s owning corporate stock, ever, is that the stockholders agree to take on all of the financial risk that the corporation’s bondholders have not taken on. (Bondholders get paid interest before stockholders get paid dividends.) If, instead, the general public, including all of the taxpayers, are taking on this financial risk, then it is only fair that the public (as represented by the government) will also be appointing, during the economic crisis, all of the corporation’s directors: the corporation will be promptly nationalized . No corporation ever should be bailed-out by the government, on any other terms than to nationalize it.Bailing out the public (workers and consumers) so that they can afford to continue living — and buying, and working — is the right thing to do in an economic crash, but not bailing out investors. What do investors get their incomes from? It’s not from their work, it’s only from the investment risks that they take on, the financial risks that they have agreed to accept. If the government transfers any of those risks onto the public, then the government must nationalize the corporation, because the ONLY value that investors provide in the economy is as a sump for financial risks. That’s it, and that’s all.https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/05/07/german-government-bails-out-owners-of-german-corporations/ I completely agree with Michael Moore on this issue . https://www.huffpost.com/entry/saving-the-big-3-for-you_b_147970 And it's not like it would be altogether unprecedented either . https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-history-of-corporate-nationalization/ I feel that this position should unite people across the political spectrum . From Communists , obviously , to even Fascists , such as possibly @Saeko , along the lines that Otto Strasser suggested . https://arplan.org/2019/01/17/strasser-program/#more-686
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