[wat0n]

Your response has no substance.

E.g. the accusation that Russia and the USSR were examples of settler colonialism is hardly new. So why couldn't one frame Ukrainian support for Nazism under those terms?

The same can apply to Arab and Palestinian support for Nazism against the British in WWII. As in, Iraq had a Nazi-sponsored coup during the war and was framed as some sort of resistance against British colonialism by Nazis and pan-Arab nationalists. This includes the Farhud.

This is not new at all, although it's interesting to see this "we can't tell the oppressed how to resist" was a Nazi talking point.

[KurtFF8]

^Godwin's law at work

[wat0n]

Too bad it's applicable. Even worse, it's even relevant to the history between Israel and both the Palestinians and the Arab world more generally.

[KurtFF8]

Challenge: can @wat0n stay on topic for more than one or two responses
Level of challenge: impossible.

[wat0n]

It seems you're out of arguments and coping out, @KurtFF8

It seems leftist students can advocate for massacres and still somehow claim not to be racist or genocidal. Peak entitlement, which is hopefully ending soon.

[KurtFF8]

Next challenge: Can @wat0n go one or two responses without resorting to outright lies?
Level: also impossible.

[wat0n]

Can @KurtFF8 stop whining and provide counterarguments for once or he'll just cry all night long?

[KurtFF8]

Can @KurtFF8 stop whining and provide counterarguments for once or he'll just cry all night long?

Providing counter arguments is all I've done. But you consistently deflect and change the subject so it's not worth engaging further.

[wat0n]

Providing counter arguments is all I've done. But you consistently deflect and change the subject so it's not worth engaging further.

Much of your retort has just consisted on saying "lies".

Tell me something, just to understand where you're coming from. Was there any sort of racism in actual, historical socialist countries like the USSR?

[KurtFF8]

Much of your retort has just consisted on saying "lies".

Because you consistently lie in this thread. You claim organizations have said things they haven't. You've claimed movements support positions that they don't, etc.

Tell me something, just to understand where you're coming from. Was there any sort of racism in actual, historical socialist countries like the USSR?

Feel free to start a thread on this topic if you want to discuss this.

[wat0n]

Because you consistently lie in this thread. You claim organizations have said things they haven't. You've claimed movements support positions that they don't, etc.

Uh oh except that I have cited them and furthermore I've also shown that they have not intervened to stop evident harassment of Jewish students caught on tape in any way.

Feel free to start a thread on this topic if you want to discuss this.

To me it looks like you believe leftists, including socialists and communists, cannot be racist and therefore will either deny obvious evidence of racism (be it explicit or obvious dog whistles, the type that you'd call out when done by anyone else) or when such evidence is undeniable will claim they're not "real" leftists.

[Pants-of-dog]

Now we see a nice straw man from @Pants-of-dog because he cannot justify actions like vandalizing Holocaust monuments and how the pro-Palestine leftist organizations refuse to distance themselves from these people.

The we agree that not all or even most protesters are antisemitic.

Do you agree?

If not, then this is exactly the ad hominem you are making.

[wat0n]

The we agree that not all or even most protesters are antisemitic.

Do you agree?

If not, then this is exactly the ad hominem you are making.

Sure, there are always clueless people in any cause. For instance, I'm fairly sure that some of the people at the Capitol on January 6, 2021 who were not rioting but peacefully protesting had no idea of what was actually going on. There were also many clueless Chileans who honestly believed Pinochet was not committing human rights violations during his dictatorship and that everything was Marxist propaganda.

But the stance of the organizers is and should be quite clear by now. Particularly their choice to refrain from condemning, let alone policing, antisemitism at their protests.

[Pants-of-dog]

If you are going to continue to accuse the protesters of being antisemitic, then this is exactly the ad hominem discussed.

Therefore, it is not a strawman to point out this ad hominem.

[wat0n]

It is not an ad-hominem to point out there are antisemitic protesters, and it is also not an ad-hominem to point out their leadership has not done anything about it. Those are just facts.

[KurtFF8]

Those are just facts.

That's the thing, they're not facts.

[wat0n]

That's the thing, they're not facts.

They are facts.

I've posted plenty of antisemitic incidents that have yet to lead to any sort of condemnation by the pro-Palestine leftists.

In fact, denial is the most common position.

[KurtFF8]

They are facts.

I've posted plenty of antisemitic incidents that have yet to lead to any sort of condemnation by the pro-Palestine leftists.

In fact, denial is the most common position.

You repeating lies over and over doesn't make them true.

[wat0n]

You repeating lies over and over doesn't make them true.

This rings hollow when protesters can even praise Hitler without meeting any sort of pushback or condemnation.

https://x.com/luketress/status/18003769 ... 0HxWQ&s=19

https://x.com/DrJacobsRad/status/179299 ... prprA&s=19

And remember, you're consciously choosing to have their back.

[KurtFF8]

This rings hollow when protesters can even praise Hitler without meeting any sort of pushback or condemnation.

https://x.com/luketress/status/18003769 ... 0HxWQ&s=19

https://x.com/DrJacobsRad/status/179299 ... prprA&s=19

And remember, you're consciously choosing to have their back.

Awful comments by those people. Where's the evidence that they were members of any of the organizations?

And your last sentence is yet another blatant lie by you.

Remember: you've clarified that individuals who say objectionable things at protests don't speak for other organizations or movements, so to hold you to your own standards: the examples you provided cannot be considered.