[KurtFF8]

Source

Caracas, July 29, 2024 (venezuelanalysis.com) – Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro has secured a third term in office after triumphing in the July 28 presidential vote.

The first bulletin published by the country’s National Electoral Council (CNE) announced an “irreversible trend” in favor of Maduro, with 51.2 percent of the vote compared to 44.2 percent for his main rival, opposition candidate Edmundo González.

The presidential contest had a turnout of 59 percent. The first bulletin was delivered with 80 percent of voting centers tallied.

“We call on everyone to respect the Constitution and the laws, and to respect the will of the people,” stated CNE President Elvis Amoroso in a press conference on Sunday at midnight. He added that results were delayed by an “attack on the transmission system” and urged authorities to investigate.

A second bulletin and the detailed results broken down by voting center are expected in the coming hours.

Maduro joined jubilant crowds outside Miraflores Presidential Palace and claimed the election was “a victory for national independence.”

“Fascism shall not pass in the land of Bolívar and Chávez,” he told supporters. “This is a triumph for peace, for stability and for our Republic.” He called on the United States and other international actors to respect the outcome and not interfere in the Caribbean nation’s internal affairs.

The president dedicated the victory to former President Hugo Chávez, who would have celebrated his 70th birthday on Sunday. “The Venezuelan people have never failed you!” Maduro said.

Far-right politician María Corina Machado, who led the opposition campaign efforts, told reporters that González was Venezuela’s new president-elect and that he had won in all states. “We had an overwhelming victory and everyone knows it,” she affirmed.

Machado called on followers to “defend the truth” and stated that the armed forces should “ensure the results are respected.”

Maduro’s victory was promptly greeted by several Latin American leaders, including Bolivian, Honduran and Cuban presidents Luis Arce, Xiomara Castro and Miguel Díaz-Canel, respectively. The ALBA Movimientos platform, which brings together social organizations across the continent, hailed Maduro’s triumph and its prospects of “continuing [Venezuela’s] revolutionary process.”

Venezuelan allies Russia and China likewise congratulated the Venezuelan president on his reelection, with both governments expressing their will to continue deepening cooperation.

In contrast, the Biden administration did not recognize the electoral results, with Secretary of State Antony Blinken expressing “serious concerns” that they “do not represent the will of the Venezuelan people.”

Chilean President Gabriel Boric tweeted that the results were “hard to believe” and demanded “transparency” in the process. His Argentinian counterpart Javier Milei had launched a tirade on social media even before the CNE announcement, claiming that his government “would not recognize fraud.”

The Brazilian government has reportedly asked the Carter Center and a UN expert panel currently accompanying the Venezuelan elections to analyze the voting totals once they are published.

Story updated on July 29 with international reaction.

Although of course the imperialists will try to discredit this and we've seen more and more right wing violence in reaction to their loss.

[wat0n]

Well, then Venezuela's government could just produce the table-level election summaries. One may wonder exactly how is it that the percentages are - to the fifth decimal - 51.20000%, 44.20000% and 4.60000%

[JohnRawls]

Source



Although of course the imperialists will try to discredit this and we've seen more and more right wing violence in reaction to their loss.

Maduro is a clown by now that destroyed Venezuela and now clinging to power because otherwise his buddies and him will get jailed for all the death, starvation, misery etc.

Imperialism my ass, people just wanna live.

[Rugoz]

Although of course the imperialists will try to discredit this and we've seen more and more right wing violence in reaction to their loss.

Jesus, wake the fuck up.

[wat0n]

@KurtFF8 is just stating the standard tankie position here, ironically though the Venezuelan Communist Party is also denouncing the election as a fraud and in 2020 switched to the opposition because it assessed Maduro had renounced Marxism-Leninism entirely and was becoming neoliberal.

[JohnRawls]

@KurtFF8 is just stating the standard tankie position here, ironically though the Venezuelan Communist Party is also denouncing the election as a fraud and in 2020 switched to the opposition because it assessed Maduro had renounced Marxism-Leninism entirely and was becoming neoliberal.

Obviously, but there must be a limit to how far he can shill for his side if even under this circumstances then sadly this explains why communism leads to such dictatorships as Maduro.

Now I am not saying all communists and socialists are like that but it seems a good chunk is and they don't particularly care that they are the cause of vast misery, death and starvation for others and ideology comes first before peoples lives. And after that they are baffled when people shout not to elect them in any shape or form or heavily distrust them.

[wat0n]

Obviously, but there must be a limit to how far he can shill for his side if even under this circumstances then sadly this explains why communism leads to such dictatorships as Maduro.

Now I am not saying all communists and socialists are like that but it seems a good chunk is and they don't particularly care that they are the cause of vast misery, death and starvation for others and ideology comes first before peoples lives. And after that they are baffled when people shout not to elect them in any shape or form or heavily distrust them.

It's a sect, and it's also an insult to our intelligence to claim the election was clean when the Venezuelan government has yet to release the table (booth)-level counts.

[Deutschmania]

Chilean President Gabriel Boric tweeted that the results were “hard to believe” and demanded “transparency” in the process.

Notably , Gabriel Boric is the left-wing president of Chile . So , I do not see how anyone , such as @KurtFF8 , can credibly dismiss him as being " imperialist" . From my standpoint , as a foreign Marxist , I would find it to be difficult to assess the political situation in Venezuela . As @wat0n alluded to , there has arisen a left opposition to Maduro , the Popular Revolutionary Alternative . Plus , to be fully candid , if Trump were to ever implement something like the Fatherland Card , in the United States , I would certainly be alarmed by it . And if I were a Christian , I might even deem it to fulfill this passage from the Book of Revelation . https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13%3A16-17&version=KJV But also , similarly to Trump , whom might also be deemed by some to be an Antichrist figure , Maduro has sought out the support of the evangelical churches . https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-02-08/nicolas-maduro-places-his-faith-in-the-evangelical-churches.html At the end of the day , I think that the best that I can do is simply to stand in solidarity with the Venezuelan people , and respect their sovereign right to self determination .

[wat0n]

Indeed, even as far as raw ideology goes it doesn't make sense for a self-avowed Marxist to support Maduro.

It does make sense to do so, however, if you don't care about ideology (including democracy) or the Venezuelans at all and you're solely considering geopolitics, and want a counterweight to American influence. Then, yes, it makes perfect sense to do your best to keep Maduro right where he is.

[Rich]

Indeed, even as far as raw ideology goes it doesn't make sense for a self-avowed Marxist to support Maduro.

The origins of Cultural Marxism goes back to the beginning of the twentieth century and the rise of the theory of Imperialism. The idea that some states were imperialist states, some nations / peoples were exploited and oppressed by these imperialist states and hence a cross class struggle by these peoples against the imperialist states must be supported.

By the end of the nineteenth century it was become clear that Marx's predictions were completely failing to become true. The lower classes were becoming ever more better off, rather than starving to death according to Marxist prophesy. The theory of Imperialism was one response to this. The idea being that the lower classes in the imperialist nations were being subsidised by the profits of the imperialism in the rest of the world. This was absolute drivel, empire building generally drains wealth and nearly all countries became prosperous without empires, including Germany that only acquired its empire after it industrialised.

The Russian Revolution came as a shock to everyone including Lenin, who was big on "anti imperialism". It rejuvenated the focus on social class and delayed Marxist degeneration into cheer leaders for tin pot dictators.

[JohnRawls]

The origins of Cultural Marxism goes back to the beginning of the twentieth century and the rise of the theory of Imperialism. The idea that some states were imperialist states, some nations / peoples were exploited and oppressed by these imperialist states and hence a cross lass struggle by these peeples against the imperialist states must be supported.

By the end of the nineteenth century it was become clear that Marx's predictions were completely failing to become true. The lower classes were becoming ever more better off, rather than starving to death according to Marxist prophesy. The theory of Imperialism was one response to this. The idea being that the lower classes in the imperialist nations were being subsides by the profits of the imperialism in the rest of the world. This was absolute drivel, empire building generally drains wealth and nearly all countries became prosperous without empires, including Germany that only acquired its empire after it industrialised.

The Russian Revolution came as a shock to everyone including Lenin, who was big on "anti imperialism". It rejuvenated the focus on social class and delayed Marxist degeneration into cheer leaders for tin pot dictators.

Your answer is self-centered on Europe and America, basically the really developed parts of the world at the time. But if you exclude them them due to development and progress then at the time there is a reason why Communism gained traction in many parts of the world since people were really oppressed by either kvazi capitalists or monarchists or indeed former impereal powers that haven't yet relinquished their imperial holdings.

Also Marx never even knew the modern economies that we have now which is understandable. So communists and tankies using it to justify destroying modern corporatist models is funny. They basically killing their own development by destroying all investment in most places. Yes this leads to corporate ownership of resources for example but it totally ignores the fact that without that investment there would be not resource extraction, employment and taxes to government on those resources. If you nationalise industries like that you basically kill it. Not straight away obviously, it will still work but it will degrade over years and within a decade or two it will be on its last legs.

[Wellsy]

Your answer is self-centered on Europe and America, basically the really developed parts of the world at the time. But if you exclude them them due to development and progress then at the time there is a reason why Communism gained traction in many parts of the world since people were really oppressed by either kvazi capitalists or monarchists or indeed former impereal powers that haven't yet relinquished their imperial holdings.

Also Marx never even knew the modern economies that we have now which is understandable. So communists and tankies using it to justify destroying modern corporatist models is funny. They basically killing their own development by destroying all investment in most places. Yes this leads to corporate ownership of resources for example but it totally ignores the fact that without that investment there would be not resource extraction, employment and taxes to government on those resources. If you nationalise industries like that you basically kill it. Not straight away obviously, it will still work but it will degrade over years and within a decade or two it will be on its last legs.

I do wonder what the options are for much kfthe world to I dustrialisedand not just be siteskf raw resource extraction. The only nations to industrialized after being colonized and suchtend to have done so because financial capital poured into nations due to geopolitical reasons.
And such investments are unreliable grounds on which to industrialize and the result of structural adjustment programs and the neoliberal Washington consensus has not fundamentally answered its failure to further develop economies as it just pokes some limited critiques at free markets for such nations where protectionism reigns for things like domestic agriculture in places like the US.

Your summary amounts to that its better to be exploited than to starve like the individual worker with no job. But this still seems an indictment on the conditions where the public image has long that we’re eliminating global poverty and are progressing.
It however seems that many nations are restricted to such resource extraction and being financially ignored altogether if such favorable terms for the global north, or political motivations do not exist.


What I think will be interesting will be the decrease in living standards of average worker in the global north, which has been shown to be somewhat of an anaomoly of the early-mid 20th century. That while the global south isn’t as productive due to the lacklf infrastructure, they stillhabe their appeal if profits really do require surplus value and there is a tendency for the rate of profit to fall. It suggests that the continuation of the idyllic free market system has its limits, and creative ways to get value more and more necessary, along side the oldwaysod lengthening working day and such.

Also if I industrialization is reliant on wealth extracted from slave labor or from colonies, then it makes industrialization less tenable based on the historical precedent where advocates of free markets simply ignore such history as contingent and non-essential. But the demand for raw materials exploded with the rapid productive capacity under industrialization. I see Ghana wants to develop its own industry for cocoa and not just send it to Europe, but it has long struggled with foreign interference and domestic problems.

[JohnRawls]

I do wonder what the options are for much kfthe world to I dustrialisedand not just be siteskf raw resource extraction. The only nations to industrialized after being colonized and suchtend to have done so because financial capital poured into nations due to geopolitical reasons.
And such investments are unreliable grounds on which to industrialize and the result of structural adjustment programs and the neoliberal Washington consensus has not fundamentally answered its failure to further develop economies as it just pokes some limited critiques at free markets for such nations where protectionism reigns for things like domestic agriculture in places like the US.

Your summary amounts to that its better to be exploited than to starve like the individual worker with no job. But this still seems an indictment on the conditions where the public image has long that we’re eliminating global poverty and are progressing.
It however seems that many nations are restricted to such resource extraction and being financially ignored altogether if such favorable terms for the global north, or political motivations do not exist.


What I think will be interesting will be the decrease in living standards of average worker in the global north, which has been shown to be somewhat of an anaomoly of the early-mid 20th century. That while the global south isn’t as productive due to the lacklf infrastructure, they stillhabe their appeal if profits really do require surplus value and there is a tendency for the rate of profit to fall. It suggests that the continuation of the idyllic free market system has its limits, and creative ways to get value more and more necessary, along side the oldwaysod lengthening working day and such.

Also if I industrialization is reliant on wealth extracted from slave labor or from colonies, then it makes industrialization less tenable based on the historical precedent where advocates of free markets simply ignore such history as contingent and non-essential. But the demand for raw materials exploded with the rapid productive capacity under industrialization. I see Ghana wants to develop its own industry for cocoa and not just send it to Europe, but it has long struggled with foreign interference and domestic problems.

First this was word salad but more or less I get what you are asking.

The answer is simple, after you build up industry and infrastructure for export then you go in to the next step of actually developing human capital and high value add industries from your industrial production base and become a developed country over time. Rarely countries do that actually smoothly and usually they get stuck a long time in to the middle income trap. The greatest achievement of European Union is that it managed to help most of the post-Soviet sattelites and republics sort of pass this step smotthly. Well the process is ongoing but still the progress is outstanding.

Other countries which refuse this change of building up their own human capital, internal market, provide political reform for free speech and general political reforms that are related to rule of law, checks and balances, corruption etc are always left behind unless they are an x resource rich country(Oil Monarchies) or Singapore(Anomaly). Hence why I said in another topic I think that it is not impossible for dictatorships or autocracies to self reform but it is very rare. Those reforms require the autocrats and dictators to loose power and provide collective stewardship of economy and political space without 10-20 crucial individuals having control of everything and being able to manipulate everyone.

This stems from the fact that to create high value add rich economies, you have widely different requirements to economies industrialising from very low base:
1) The Return on investment is now counted in decades and not 1-2-3-4 years.
2) That Return on investment is now heavily dependable on the education, quality, experience and creativity of your people aka human capital.
3) High value add economies rely on mass being that in the same way as industrialisation relies on mass being able to at least being able to read or write.
4) Investment number are way larger for high value add compared to simpler industries.

In essense it is the same industrialisation process through investment but now in high value add industries with the coming problems that now you have to have absolutely solid rule of law since nobody will invest in to you for decades if its not, absolutely solid political institutions that won't have a revolt, absolutely solid political situation that you won't attack other countries or political system that will create some bullshit. Obviously the political system also will have to take care of the people since that is the only way to create very high quality human capital and the best system we have for that is democracy now when the people provide their own feedback loop in to the system.

[Skynet]

Maduro is not capable to organize a working socialist system with all the ressources: oil, gold and cocaine.

I think Venezuela is not Soviet communist it is a simple 3rd world cleptocracy.

[JohnRawls]

As posted in another thread, the chance of this uprising doing anything is like near 0 when 5%-10% of people who support Maduro have all the weapons. This is just the reality of things, a sobering reality that if you live in an autocratic/dictatorial state then you need to be willing sacrifice 10s of thousands or 100s of thousands of innocent civilians to change anything if you are without any real support or weapons.

[wat0n]

Indeed, the only way for that to work is for the repression to lead other states in the region to decide to topple Maduro. It doesn't seem likely they will.

Besides, it also doesn't seem like the protests have been large enough to lead to a level of repression that would move other states in this direction.

[Deutschmania]

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1819281905511997875

Funny enough , years before , someone hacked the Fatherland Card Database , and prevented Maduro from voting . So , if so , it would seem that Venezuela is susceptible to cyber attack .

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/07/542125867/hackers-in-venezuela-hit-dozens-of-government-websites

https://www.dw.com/en/venezuela-cyberattack-targets-government-websites/a-40002475

https://www.france24.com/en/20170731-maduro-snubbed-venezuela-vote-person-does-not-exist

https://en.mercopress.com/2024/07/29/probe-launched-into-machado-s-alleged-involvement-in-system-hacking

[JohnRawls]

Funny enough , years before , someone hacked the Fatherland Card Database , and prevented Maduro from voting . So , if so , it would seem that Venezuela is susceptible to cyber attack .

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/07/542125867/hackers-in-venezuela-hit-dozens-of-government-websites

https://www.dw.com/en/venezuela-cyberattack-targets-government-websites/a-40002475

https://www.france24.com/en/20170731-maduro-snubbed-venezuela-vote-person-does-not-exist

https://en.mercopress.com/2024/07/29/probe-launched-into-machado-s-alleged-involvement-in-system-hacking

Or it doesn't work and not supposed to work.

[JohnRawls]

Indeed, the only way for that to work is for the repression to lead other states in the region to decide to topple Maduro. It doesn't seem likely they will.

Besides, it also doesn't seem like the protests have been large enough to lead to a level of repression that would move other states in this direction.

That is the funny of tankies shouting imperialism. Was Iraq and Afghanistan a mistake? Yeah it was that US did it by itself. Bin Laden sort of had the last laugh. So now we are all so timid to intervene anywhere that hundreds of thousands all over the world are starving to death, sit in political prisoner camps and get repressed physically and mentally in many other places. Sort of be damned if you do and be damned if you don't.

[Rancid]

That is the funny of tankies shouting imperialism. Was Iraq and Afghanistan a mistake? Yeah it was that US did it by itself. Bin Laden sort of had the last laugh. So now we are all so timid to intervene anywhere that hundreds of thousands all over the world are starving to death, sit in political prisoner camps and get repressed physically and mentally in many other places. Sort of be damned if you do and be damned if you don't.

Yup, we just have to let it be.