[Adrien]

Okay, I know, double-posting. But an earthquake has shaken the world of British cars.





The XJ. To refresh your memories, here is what the old one looked like:



Quite a revolution! And the new one is jam-packed with technology inside and out, it's like Jaguar is getting into gear, after the XF we discussed above. The lines are controversial too! I definitely see where Ian Callum decided to go with the blacked-out C-pillars, but since they used the frame of the old one I think, maybe he wasn't able to go all the way. It looks a bit weird. The rest of the rear probably doesn't come out too good in pictures, but on that other one it's not too bad, very Italian.



So what do you think? :P

[Thunderhawk]

My first thought was that it looked like a stylish charger.
PS, I perfer the older style.

I should be in the area of a Jag dealer soon. Ill stop by and take a look.

[Adrien]

Hehe it does have that forward leaning aggressive stance. Speaking of Chargers, the next generation, 2011 if I'm not mistaken so it should be presented in late 2009 to go into production as an early 2011 model given how bad they need some renewal, is said to be quite a design too. Apparently the design has been chosen and presented to some pundits or whatever, and it's supposed to be a mix of retro and modern.

I'd probably lean towards the older styling too, but it feels good to see something refreshing like that. Quoting James May's review of the XF, when he denounces the S-type and the rest of the old line-up, the old management, in trying to make the car British enough to appeal to Germans and Americans, conveyed a "ridiculously outdated view of what Britain is". "He (the guy who designed the S-type I suppose) thinks we all live in Anne Hathaway's cottage and then go out to the oldie tea rooms where we eat some mint cakes and then maybe we'll go out and find a red phone box and ring up some guys at the Tower of London so we can see if we can have our bowler hats back. It's rubbish."

[Thunderhawk]

Apparently the design has been chosen and presented to some pundits or whatever, and it's supposed to be a mix of retro and modern

retro? (1)

Different grille? (2)

..or (3)


I wonder how they will mix new and old without it looking like the new Challanger


note: I would love a modern charger (new material, technology, integrated steering wheel, etc..) with the appearance of the 70s version (1). Headlights under the grille and, if necessary, also vertically on the side of the grille (modern headlight LEDs might be able to put out the candle power..) .

[Adrien]

The next generation Charger is expected to merge the styling of the current version with a more classic look from the famous 1968 Chargers, one of the most stylish vehicles ever built. We expect that most of the “look” will be based on the current Charger rather than the 1968s. The official image shows a faux-Coke-bottle side view, with integrated front tail-light but separate rear tail-light. Note that it will be more different from the 300C.

We'll see where that goes, but with Fiat's expertise and engineering standing behind to help when something happens, I can see Chrysler being focused and creative again. I mean, good signs abound, from the Challenger, to the 200C concept, and, well that's about it otherwise they wouldn't have gone bust eh.



I wonder if concealed headlamps are still legal? Thing is, Chrysler was the last brand to push for them until the mid-90s so I suppose they are, but with all the regulations brought on the industry these days. But yes LED definitely allow for crazy designs. Rolls-Royce is pretty much going that way already, but I'd like to see blacked-out grilles like the ones of the Charger or late-60s Chrysler sedans.

[Thunderhawk]

I was thinking something along the lines of this
(please ignore the copy flaw - I drew this quickly in MS paint)


Yellow = turn signal
Upper white = head lights
lower white = fog lamps




Id like to stay away from having lights behind the grille.

[Kapanda]

@ Adrien

Classic Jaguar is numerous times better than modern Jaguar.

The New XJ looks more like a sports sedan than anything else. Is that really the kind of image Jaguar wants?

[Adrien]

I was thinking something along the lines of this

Oh okay I see, that's really 1968-inspired yes. And that'd be neat, but I'm afraid they're gonna try and incorporate this silly crosshair-like corporate grille into the front. It'd be great if they don't, and maybe just leave it at a central split ala-1969 to hold the logo or something, but it's all about corporate grilles today.

What the LED would really allow it's to on your design have a strip for the turn signals, a similar strip for the headlights right next to it, in the same crease even maybe, then have sculpted bodywork where you put the headlights, and then the grille. That would give it a very shark-like appearance.

Classic Jaguar is numerous times better than modern Jaguar.

On a business level... yes and no. Classic Jaguar sold better than modern Jaguar back in the days, which is why they kept the XJ6 in production after introducing the controversial ("Blimey, the new Jag' has square headlights my dear, call the Queen!") XJ40, because the new technology, new design, etc. didn't catch on with their demographics. That's true for lots of brands just stuck in their demographics up to their necks, like Buick or, worse, Mercury.

But now that customer base is gone, and Jaguars became neo-classics, ie modern technology under a very classic skin, because although they still want to capitalise on these old school looks, they can't market a technologically outdated car nowadays like they did in the past. And that just doesn't work (see James May's comment on the S-type above, or see the X-type which was a weird-looking baroque Mondeo, ...), and sales keep going down. Kept I should say because I hear the XF is doing great (great value it seems), and the XK did great before.

The same thing got Rover going bust, nobody cared the 75 was engineered by BMW and even had some BMW-sourced engines, it looked just too old and stuck in the past. So Jaguar probably wants to turn its image upside down before it's too late.

In a way, it's coming back to their true DNA: sports car. The MKIIs were sport sedans. The XKs too, and the E-type was a high-flying grand tourer. So it makes sense too. You can base a business on plushiness and comfort when you're a made-up cookie cutter brand like Lexus, but when you're Jaguar expectations are way high.

[QatzelOk]

[Doomhammer]

When will they start making good looking Lancias again?

[Adrien]

At this point, Lancia is make or break, so will it even get the chance to?

The product plan is sketchy, there is this traditional idea of sportiness and cutting-edge-ness that was lost long ago and still lingers, the more recent luxury idea, and now they are supposed to imbricate (is that even a word?) their product line within Chrysler's so each can fill the segments left vacant by their respective diminished means.

I know Chrysler has the same ideas of either sport/cutting-edge or luxury (though the badge has been terribly soiled by Daimler) but the task seems pretty impressive. I mean, aren't characterful Italian cars and characterful American cars polar opposites? If you oppose the cars of both Chrysler's and Lancia's glory days, it's quite a shocker.