[Fasces]

Dude..different human populations also have different ancestors. There is a 'common ancestor' with a scottish person and a Russian person. There is a common ancestor with a scottish person and a han Chinese. There is a common ancestor with a scottish person and a native american. Etc. All of these things you claim are meaningful is also true with human populations. So yeah...once again...either both race and species are simply social constructs or neither of them are. Pick one.

This is precisely why race is scientifically useless. It is impossible to identify the "most recent common ancestor" to a random Han and a random Scottish - outside of Mitochondrial Eve and Y Chromosome Adam - and it may not even be the same individual to different collections of Scots and Chinese.

[Fasces]

No one is saying a ravioli and a gyoza are the same thing, but at the end of the day, scientifically - its pasta dough wrapped around meat. Also, some ravioli are more similar to some gyoza than to other raviolis and vice versa. It's all dumplings.

[wat0n]

This is precisely why race is scientifically useless. It is impossible to identify the "most recent common ancestor" to a random Han and a random Scottish - outside of Mitochondrial Eve and Y Chromosome Adam - and it may not even be the same individual to different collections of Scots and Chinese.

It's more than that.

It's also that whatever allows you to tell Scots and Chinese apart is less than 2% of all genetic differences between them, and less than 0.2% of all DNA.

[FiveofSwords]

This is precisely why race is scientifically useless. It is impossible to identify the "most recent common ancestor" to a random Han and a random Scottish - outside of Mitochondrial Eve and Y Chromosome Adam - and it may not even be the same individual to different collections of Scots and Chinese.

Dude. It isn't even necessary to identify who that common ancestor is. We simply know there is one, because biology works that way. That is sufficient to prove it is no different from species.

[Potemkin]

Dude. It isn't even necessary to identify who that common ancestor is. We simply know there is one, because biology works that way. That is sufficient to prove it is no different from species.

All of humanity has a common ancestor, @FiveofSwords. Darwin was proud to point out that, in this matter at least, he was in agreement with Scripture.

[wat0n]

All of humanity has a common ancestor, @FiveofSwords. Darwin was proud to point out that, in this matter at least, he was in agreement with Scripture.

Not just all of humanity, but all forms of life...

[FiveofSwords]

All of humanity has a common ancestor, @FiveofSwords. Darwin was proud to point out that, in this matter at least, he was in agreement with Scripture.

Dude...all life has a common ancestor

[Verv]

If you want an example of institutional racism that led to a lot of human rights abuses (including things like medical experiments, rape, beatings, family separation, and starvation) that was also mostly Christian, there is the residential school system here in Canada.

I saw just recently they spent $8 million on attempting to verify/recover the remains but none were available (it was all a lie), and a $40 billion compensation bill was introduced for the residential school kids...

Of course, this all happened because it was a Christian society: one that believed in bettering the lives of native kids in remote, unsettled locations through creating residential schools that the natives also asked for, and also a Christian society that believes in holding other Christians accountable for the things that they did that were wrong.

Big W's for Christianity.

Yes, and when colonialism came along, it was supported by racism and helped support racism.

And when capitalism came along, it helped support colonialism and racism and was supported by them.

Or, colonialism was actually destroyed and replaced with a completely new model which is, in many ways, more sinister since it disguises itself as a native species.

[Potemkin]

Dude...all life has a common ancestor

Then why select out ‘races’ as being different? The ‘races’ have been mixing so much with each other that they are not separate clades. They never were.

[Bill_Nye]

[Tainari88]

Then why select out ‘races’ as being different? The ‘races’ have been mixing so much with each other that they are not separate clades. They never were.

Because in the racist mind? The differences are so vast and permanent and critical and if you do not respect the differences you will go extinct and your race dies off as the race of the inferiors continue on as your power diminishes in your own paranoid mind.

If you are African you belong in Africa, and you belong in Scotland if you are Scottish. It does not ocurr to these stubborn people who are racist to the nth degree, that humans have been roaming the Earth since the dawn of humankind, and they interact with plants, and animals and flora and fauna and they go looking for food, and water and hunting and agriculturally fertile land, and resources. They move constantly and travel looking for bread and water and sex and mating and instincts for survival. Nothing static about who we are as a species. Change is innate to the human species Potemkincito.

The white looking guy has a child, he dies of old age, his son goes on without him in the world, and his son has sex with someone not European looking, but carries in the DNA the genes of the dead old white ancestor, and the DNA of the dead old Black ancestor, and the DNA has a lot of variations of possibilities for an adaptable threat in the future. The orchestra is playing with the DNA coming up with new songs and compositions every single generation. For our own benefit.

But the racists are petrified, stuck in the idea like a broken record, that the differences have to have a hierarchy and the White people are the one Truth, the Light and the Way. And Jesus was a Jew. But his father GOD was a White Man who was scared of the humans he made who were not white.

Do you see how illogical these fear-filled people are full of? White people are SUPERIOR to all others. They need a pure White Homeland. And your neighborhood is in Edinburgh full of decent Scottish White people who are the superior people on planet Earth. Why can't they see the truth of White Genocide!! Scream it right now from the rooftops in Edinburgh and hope the men in the straight jackets and a padded room do not come for you as you scream it Bellisimo de mi vida. Think about it!

Let his people go and let them part the Atlantic Sea and sail into the North Sea and get to Edinburgh. Take over the land that shaped his skin tone. He wants to live on some planet where things do not change. That everything stays in the mode he needs it to stay in.

Now, I have to go to sleep. My husband is watching bad videos about UFOs in the Bermuda Triangle.

[Verv]

You are your descendants as much as you are your ancestors; as the Angles, Saxons, Picts, etc., live on in the modern British, the modern Americans (both black & white), the Jamaicans, the South Africans, the Australians, etc., so, too, will you live on in a great combination of peoples...

And so you should be liberated from the imagined burdened of carrying on a tribe's name... For that name will be carried on, forever, in combinations of new peoples, no matter what you do. You are your ancestors, and also your descendants...

And what I would encourage anti-racists to do is to stop talking about how evil and racist everyone was 50+ years ago. This perpetuates a false dichotomy and enshrines the idol of race far higher than it should be in history. It directly feeds into the imaginations of young men builds up xenophobic cults...

Our ancestors were willing & eager to meet foreigners. It has always been life affirming for Christians to share communion across ethnic lines. The dissolution of ethnic conflict has been a universal goal. The greatest barrier to it has been that people were so poor they were so used to being clannish and fighting against rival families & townships over scarce resources, let alone completely different people from across the sea...

The second we prospered enough to begin breaking down barriers, they began melting like butter. Just as such, the second the Indian peoples got a modern economy, the differences of caste were cast off - I heard it from the mouth of Indian immigrants of high caste themselves: "The young generation doesn't believe in this or view it as a real part of Hinduism..."

Have mercy on the old people who wearily guard their old privileges & distinctions - the old man in the Veteran's hat who walks with a cane and grew up in a different world has different concerns. Sit and listen to them, and provide a few kind words that affirm him in his virtues and gently disagree with him if it is relevant...

Dragging out the worst aspects of people who lived harder lives than you and summarizing their existence as some caricature of hatred & ignorance is not just terrible, it's a distortion of what they're really like.

[FiveofSwords]

Then why select out ‘races’ as being different? The ‘races’ have been mixing so much with each other that they are not separate clades. They never were.

If we really were as mixed as you pretend then nobody could determine anyone's race. But we can. Everyone agrees that George Floyd was black. That is only possible because we are not all that mixed. This is just logic.

[Fasces]

Dude. It isn't even necessary to identify who that common ancestor is. We simply know there is one, because biology works that way. That is sufficient to prove it is no different from species.

There isn't one because miscenegenation was never not a thing.

[FiveofSwords]

You are your descendants as much as you are your ancestors; as the Angles, Saxons, Picts, etc., live on in the modern British, the modern Americans (both black & white), the Jamaicans, the South Africans, the Australians, etc., so, too, will you live on in a great combination of peoples...

And so you should be liberated from the imagined burdened of carrying on a tribe's name... For that name will be carried on, forever, in combinations of new peoples, no matter what you do. You are your ancestors, and also your descendants...

And what I would encourage anti-racists to do is to stop talking about how evil and racist everyone was 50+ years ago. This perpetuates a false dichotomy and enshrines the idol of race far higher than it should be in history. It directly feeds into the imaginations of young men builds up xenophobic cults...

Our ancestors were willing & eager to meet foreigners. It has always been life affirming for Christians to share communion across ethnic lines. The dissolution of ethnic conflict has been a universal goal. The greatest barrier to it has been that people were so poor they were so used to being clannish and fighting against rival families & townships over scarce resources, let alone completely different people from across the sea...

The second we prospered enough to begin breaking down barriers, they began melting like butter. Just as such, the second the Indian peoples got a modern economy, the differences of caste were cast off - I heard it from the mouth of Indian immigrants of high caste themselves: "The young generation doesn't believe in this or view it as a real part of Hinduism..."

Have mercy on the old people who wearily guard their old privileges & distinctions - the old man in the Veteran's hat who walks with a cane and grew up in a different world has different concerns. Sit and listen to them, and provide a few kind words that affirm him in his virtues and gently disagree with him if it is relevant...

Dragging out the worst aspects of people who lived harder lives than you and summarizing their existence as some caricature of hatred & ignorance is not just terrible, it's a distortion of what they're really like.

The goal of the anti racist is not to eliminate ethnic conflict. They just want to eliminate white people.

[FiveofSwords]

There isn't one because miscenegenation was never not a thing.

Dude...most eurasians have some tiny amount of Neanderthal ancestry. That doesn't mean homo sapien is not a valid category. It just doesn't imply what you think it does...that isn't how biology works.

You know what else has always been a thing? Mutations. Sometimes mutations improve an organism's chance of reproduction. Does that mean we cannot identify species? No.

[Fasces]

Neanderthals are homo sapiens neanderthalis (and we are homo sapiens sapiens).

[Potemkin]

If we really were as mixed as you pretend then nobody could determine anyone's race. But we can. Everyone agrees that George Floyd was black. That is only possible because we are not all that mixed. This is just logic.

A clade consists of the common ancestor of a group of organisms, and all of that organism’s descendants. Miscegenation has never not been a thing. So-called ‘races’ cannot be defined cladistically.

[ingliz]

That doesn't mean homo sapien[sic] is not a valid category.

That depends on who you ask.

Adequate...

The reality is that in most cases in mammals and birds, species diverge from each other gradually. It may take millions of years for full reproductive isolation to develop, something that clearly had not yet occurred for H. neanderthalensis and H. sapiens.

— Prof. Chris Stringer F.R.S., Are Neanderthals the same species as us?

Inadequate...

Diagram showing the nine recognised human species from the past one million years.



The inadequacy of the biological species concept, for example, has been well recognized for palaeontology. But until the rise of ancient genomics, the potential for a hominin hybrid had yet to be realized. Several instances of known introgression later, we are now faced with having to choose between the wealth of alternative species concepts, the difficulty of which is compounded by the reality of having a range of morphological evidence for which we do not have any aDNA, and a collection of genetic data for which we have little or no morphological information. The best solution to this problem will differ depending on who is asked, and teasing apart the relative merits of each approach goes beyond the scope of this paper. However, whatever the stance, we have passed the threshold of phylogenetic complexity where we can hope that new fossils will organically elucidate the existing record's evolutionary relationships, and at minimum we will need to get better at specifying our naming conventions with respect to the amount of variation we think is necessary or sufficient when describing new species.

— J. Galway-Witham et al., Aspects of human physical and behavioural evolution during the last 1 million years, Journal of Quaternary Science Aug. 2019

[Verv]

The goal of the anti racist is not to eliminate ethnic conflict. They just want to eliminate white people.

Do not let the existence of ugly, offensive ideas impact how you perceive the truth.

I also think the majority of people that speak out against racism do so with good intentions.