[Drlee]

Read the bullshit PO posted. From what ought to be respected sources. Clearly they are choking on political correctness. There is absolutely no substitute for diet and exercise. You can educate people on how to effectively lose weight by writing it on the back of a 3X5 card.

NOBODY is about shaming anyone. But, if our attempt to play nice causes us to watch the person die of covid, lose a leg to diabetes, or watch the love of his life walk by without a glance, we are not doing anyone any favors.

The army has rigid weight standards. I wonder why? Appearance? Not hardly. So who, let me see a show of hands, can guess why the military wants trim and fit soldiers?

[ness31]

Of course, different strokes for different folks

[Godstud]

@Drlee Better calendars?

[ness31]

Speaking of diet, I’ve just overdone it for the day. I’ve had a curry pan, a Korean hot dog and a mochi donut. No one, and I mean NO ONE needs that much deep fried goodness in one day.

Now I have to decide if I’m just going to write the day off or start crunching in the spirit of Louis CK..

[Politics_Observer]

@ness31

Yeah, here is the thing ness. Even when I was in super awesome shape and looked skinny, those who knew me before I was in good shape and skinny at the time still regarded me as "fat" even though I was skinny and in really great shape. You know that's because they remembered what I used to look like prior to getting skinny and being in awesome shape. So, even after losing weight, you still face prejudice and bias from those who remember what you used to look like. So, at the end of the day, no matter what you do or how hard you work, you will never make those people happy and you shouldn't even bother trying or listen to them or pay them any attention.

The bias and prejudice will remain against you, even when you get skinny and in good shape. I certainly didn't hide the fact that one time I wasn't skinny and I think people think you will "relapse" back into fat again eventually so you still face discrimination and bias even when you get your body type to what is "acceptable" to them . Personally, I think they are ridiculous and full of shit. So basically, they are just idiot knuckleheads you just don't need to pay attention to anyway because they don't care about you and they aren't there to help you. So, I just keep them at a distance and ignore them when I can.

So I just sort of accept my "fatness" and do the best I can to manage my health and weight through exercise and eating good foods . I know I am not going to be perfect but I am good enough. I don't go on crazy diets or become a vegetarian or decide to become a marathon runner or become the next physical fitness nut or extreme sports athlete. I just get out there and walk a few miles and will eat like flourless pizza crust with vegetables on it, you know grilled chicken, some vegetables, and a few carbs. I don't think it's a good idea to totally cut carbs out of your diet. I also eat peanuts and pistachios for snack food (pistachios when I can afford to do so).

[ness31]

PO, is it possible you might be projecting your insecurities? There’s a lot of empty vessels out there who just have a knack at extracting your deepest and darkest thoughts. You’re on the right track - pay them no mind

[Politics_Observer]

@ness31

I don't think I am projecting any insecurities at all. I don't like what I see as prejudice sometimes because I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that and know the mentality that comes along with it. A lot of times people who are prejudiced don't see themselves as prejudiced when in fact they really are. Those people generally aren't helping to solve the problem but instead help to perpetuate the problem. You are not going to change their mind though and they aren't going to change my mind either.

[Drlee]

@Drlee Better calendars? :?:

Well there is that.

[MistyTiger]

@Politics_Observer
I understand being perceived as being fat and the fat bias. I believe it exists. I still think of myself as the fat girl and people at work who saw me years ago and compared to now, they know I was heavy. But I resolve to keep up with my healthy routines and making time for myself. I squeeze in moments to meditate, exercise or just breathe. I don't have to run myself ragged or chain myself to the desk to get all my computer stuff done in a day. I do a little bit each day.

That said, we are not fat shaming. We understand that change is hard and people don't like being criticized. However, sometimes people need to listen to feedback that they might not like. Like as a child, if I was doing poorly in school, my parents would tell me I was doing poorly and the reasons why. They wanted to see me improve and their feedback helped me to bring up my grades and be more aware of my performance and actions. As a result, I made positive changes in my life which have impacted me up till now. What we do in the early years really makes us into who we become as adults. I am grateful for my loving, caring parents or I would not be who I am today.

In life, we absorb positive and negative feedback all the time. We're not always aware of the type of feedback like with advertisements, news articles, videos, emails or even messages from the people in our lives. I encourage anyone to be critical of the feedback received and determine if it's meant to harm or help.

Like Michael Moore made a documentary called Bowling for Columbine. He spoke about how the media wants to put fear in our minds. Fear is how they control us. Think about it. People are united in fear and then fear makes us follow the source who appears stronger. We respect the stronger power. So that showed me not to let fear run my life. Do not let fear blind you to the truth, the truth that the media does not want you to see. A lot of what the media is doing is spinning lies and rewriting the narrative, making changes. If they could, you bet they would try to change history. Luckily, they can't do that. They can hide the truth but they cannot change it.

[Godstud]

Here's a very good discussion about obesity and how it's not "simply" a case of choice. It's not long and it's well done.

[Agent Steel]

That was actually a pretty good video Godstud. Sounds like you're open-minded at least.

[minivanburen]

It seems clear to me that being fat is neither wholly predetermined nor wholly a choice. Almost everyone can lose weight through exercise and diet--the issue is that for some people it requires more exercise and a stricter diet than for others. These problems can be compounded by social factors, like socioeconomic status. For example, it is a lot harder to lose weight if you have to work 12+ hours a day just to get by: it is harder to eat healthy food (which typically requires cooking at home & takes time, both to get fresh ingredients and to cook) and it is harder to exercise (both in terms of having the time to exercise and in terms of being able to afford things like running shoes or gym memberships).

Nonetheless, thinking that there is a need for a "fat civil rights movement" is silly for a variety of reasons. First, to my knowledge, there are no laws that prohibit fat people from marrying, from sitting at lunch counters, or from doing anything else. Second, people who are overweight do not generally face explicit discrimination--by which I mean, for example, being turned away from a public accommodation on the basis of who they are. Compare the situation of obese people today with the situation of Black people during the Civil Rights Movement, women during the women's liberation movement, or LGBTQ people during the queer liberation movement. Each of these groups faced widespread discrimination in workplaces and public accommodation, were routine targets of referenda or politicians, and suffered under discriminatory laws.

It is true that there is some social stigma against people who are overweight. That should stop, but that does not make this a civil rights issue. Moreover, what needs to stop is not bullying of overweight people specifically but bullying or making judgments about people on the basis of their appearance more generally. It is an unfortunate reality that people with visible disabilities, ugly people, short people, and others all face social disadvantages in life, including in employment (mostly subconscious). As a society we should strive to move away from that, but that does not make it a "civil rights" issue or require a civil rights movement.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

See, your body will also fight your weight loss too. So, when you lose weight, especially if you lose a lot of weight over a short period of time, your body will make you feel hungry even when you otherwise would not feel hungry to get you to eat so you get your weight back to your "normal" overweight and obese self. So, losing weight is very tough and hard. It's not easy or simple. You will have to fight back against your body fighting you for about a year or two in order to make that weight loss more permanent. That's a long time to be fighting back against your body which is fighting your weight loss at the same time. That's why it's one thing to lose weight, quite another story to keep it off for a period of many years. So, it's a constant battle. This is why obesity is categorized as a disease rather than "a choice."

[minivanburen]

@Godstud

See, your body will also fight your weight loss too. So, when you lose weight, especially if you lose a lot of weight over a short period of time, your body will make you feel hungry even when you otherwise would not feel hungry to get you to eat so you get your weight back to your "normal" overweight and obese self. So, losing weight is very tough and hard. It's not easy or simple. You will have to fight back against your body fighting you for about a year or two in order to make that weight loss more permanent. That's a long time to be fighting back against your body which is fighting your weight loss at the same time. That's why it's one thing to lose weight, quite another story to keep it off for a period of many years. So, it's a constant battle. This is why obesity is categorized as a disease rather than "a choice."

It really depends on your method of losing weight and what your "starting point" is. For example, if your usual diet is fast food, simply changing to home-cooked meals that are relatively healthy can make a substantial difference. Changing from drinking soda with every meal to drinking water can also make a big difference. Likewise, if you start doing strength training, being hungry is not necessarily a bad thing if you're eating the right foods--i.e., protein--because you'll gain muscle which burns calories at a much faster rate.

[Politics_Observer]

@minivanburen

Here is a good source that discusses my assertion you responded to.

And Why It Wants to Gain Weight Back

Weight management is a key component of a healthy life. While many people successfully maintain healthy weights through a balance of nutrition and activity, weight loss can be vital for the 71 percent of Americans who are overweight or suffering from obesity. However, weight loss – particularly extreme weight loss – is more complicated than consuming fewer calories than you burn. As many as 90 percent of people who have lost a considerable amount of weight will gain it back.

Sustainable weight management is possible and understanding how your body responds to weight loss efforts can help you establish realistic expectations on your journey.

Here are 8 things you may not know about your body and weight loss.

1. Your Metabolism Will Slow Down to Store Fat

The more you work out or manage your calorie intake to lose weight, the more your metabolism wants to compensate by slowing down to maintain your current weight. Metabolic compensation kicks in to preserve and store fat for future energy. Some physicians theorize this is because the human body has evolved to value storing fat and energy and to interpret a shortage of calories as sign of distress or famine.

2. Your Hormones Will Increase Drive to Eat

Unfortunately, metabolic compensation isn’t your body’s only strategy to prevent weight loss or encourage weight gain. Hunger hormones – leptin and ghrelin – are also at play. Fat cells produce leptin, which tells your brain when you’re full. Fat cells also shrink when you lose weight, producing less leptin and meaning you don’t feel as full. Strike one. Ghrelin, produced by the stomach, tells the brain it’s time to refuel. When you lose weight, ghrelin levels rise, prompting you to want to eat more frequently. Strike two. Research suggests that neither leptin levels nor ghrelin levels return to a normal baseline for at least a year.

3. Your Brain Won’t Register How Much You’re Eating

In addition to your metabolism and hormones, the neural circuitry in your brain is fighting weight loss too. Food has a greater reward value after you’ve lost weight and the part of the brain that regulates food restraint becomes less active – meaning that while you’re eating more to feel full (courtesy of leptin), you’re also less aware of how much you’re eating.

4. Your Genes May or May Not Be Helping

More than 400 genes have been linked to obesity and weight gain and they can affect appetite, metabolism, cravings and body-fat distribution. The exact degree to which you can be genetically predisposed to weight gain or obesity is unclear, but genes have been associated with difficulty losing weight even as you increase physical activity or low-calorie diets. Much like weight management on the whole, addressing a genetic predisposition for obesity is much easier from a preventive standpoint than a reactionary one.

5. Your Body Is Extra Prepared for Your Second Try

When your body gets sick, it creates antibodies to the illness so that the next time, the immune system is prepared. Unfortunately, it reacts in a similar way to weight loss. If you’ve lost weight in the past due to exercise or diet changes and attempt those same strategies again to lose weight, your body – again, mainly hormones and metabolism – will adjust to prevent similar damage and you’ll see fewer weight loss results.

6. Your Weight Has a Favorite Number

Some scientists subscribe to the idea that your body has a set weight point and all of the above – your metabolism, hormones, brain – will adjust to maintain that weight. The theory goes that people can have naturally higher or lower set weights than others and genetics, aging, history of weight loss and other hormonal shifts can all impact your set weight. Moreover, set points can rise but very rarely do they lower. Similarly, they are much easier to maintain – because your body wants to – than reduce, which is why maintaining a healthy weight is easier than losing weight.

7. Your Weight Loss Might Not Look Like You Were Expecting

Unfortunately, it’s not always smooth sailing after successful weight loss – especially successful extreme weight loss – either. Your body may look different than you were expecting. Stretch marks and loose skin are common, and many people deal with the emotional affects of coping with a body that does not look like the ideal they had in mind.

https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/healthy-t ... eight-loss

Here is a video as well.

[minivanburen]

@Politics_Observer

That doesn't contradict what I've said. What you've quoted seems to relate primarily to dieting, which is rarely sustainable over long periods of time--that's where the statistic about people gaining back weight comes from. By contrast, sustainable lifestyle changes can make a big difference.

From the same website:

Some simple strategies, such as making protein a staple of meals and snacks or starting a weight loss routine with cardio before switching to weight training and resistance later on, can help support your weight loss goals.

Furthermore, the article refers to issues about how bodies respond to calorie deficits but not all calories are bad. For example, you can lose fat--which really is what people want when they talk about "losing weight"--without actually losing weight, and therefore without any calorie deficit. The way you do this is through strength training and building muscle.

But as I've said already, not all of these changes are feasible for everyone. Some bodies are not as responsive to dietary changes or to exercise. Many low-income folks are unable to spend the time or money or energy on cooking healthy meals, working out (which entails going to the gym & a gym membership or spending a ton of money on a home gym!), and so on. Unfortunately, that is also true of many other things as well, which means the fundamental problem is not prejudice against fat people but rather structural economic inequality that prevents people from achieving self-actualization.

In any event, the question of whether and to what degree being fat is a "choice" is secondary to the question of whether there is any need for a "fat civil rights movement"--which is what OP called for. There are many things which are socially stigmatized or against which people have biases: being short (esp. for men), bad fashion sense, offensive body odor, being annoying... the list goes on. Setting aside whether it's "fair" for people to have those biases (in fact, let's assume for the moment it isn't fair), it's irrelevant as to whether those things are innate or a choice when addressing the question of whether we need a "civil rights movement" for people with those characteristics.

Like people with the characteristics I mentioned, fat people do face social stigma and some degree of bias on an individual level. But their status in society is far removed from that of every other group that has had a civil rights movement in the U.S. or even internationally. The women's rights movement arose first in a context where women could not vote at all; then in a context where sexual violence against women was commonplace and ignored by law enforcement. The Black civil rights movement came about in reaction to widespread segregation of schools and public accommodations, all of which had the intent and effect of promoting white supremacy. The gay rights movement arose against the background of it being illegal to express same-sex affection, cross-dress, or even for gay men to gather together in a bar; only recently were gay people permitted to marry, and many religions continue to to harbor prejudice against them. The same is very much not true of fat people.

[Mike12]

Or maybe its purging time. You print out 400 million us flags with 400 million coffins. OK give me a red, give me a white, give me a blue. Patrick Henry. George Washington. Crispus Attucks. Jefferson Davis time. We choose them. Our voice. Democracy. 200 million left. I'm winded. Puritan Pigeons. Texas Alamo. 3 branches of Government. I'm only a Bill... Paul Revere. 50 million suckers I'm outta here .

[Agent Steel]

Coming back to this thread again after some time.

Man, it really is a shame to see such lack of love and compassion we have for other people. I am proud of myself for going above and beyond and preaching love on this issue. I don't have to do so. I could instead take an attitude that I am better than fat people but I don't do that.

I bet 5 years ago I would have taken a different attitude about this. I probably would have said that fat people are inferior somehow. But today I have grown to be a much kinder person. Sadly others in this topic have not grown as I have.

Maybe the world isn't ready yet for a fat civil rights movement. I predict in time we will learn to treat them with more kindness than we do now. We will also understand that they are not to blame for their condition.

[Godstud]

I bet 5 years ago I would have taken a different attitude about this. I probably would have said that fat people are inferior somehow. But today I have grown to be a much kinder person. Sadly others in this topic have not grown as I have.

Rubbish. No one has posted anything saying that fat people are inferior. In fact, the only person postulating such a thing, is you, just now.

People have just posted the reality. I general, and not talking exceptions(which people who want to make ridiculous claims often do) weight control is within the person's power. Remaining overweight is a choice. Some of us have been fat and know this to be the reality.

Maybe the world isn't ready yet for a fat civil rights movement. I predict in time we will learn to treat them with more kindness than we do now. We will also understand that they are not to blame for their condition

. There is no need for some delusional fat civil rights movement any more than there is a need for a diabetic civil rights movement. No one is treating fat people poorly. You've bought into the woke "health at any size" movement of stupidity and self-delusion. The world is not made for obese people. It is made for normal people. This is the reality we live in.

Being fat is a choice. It's not always one we consciously make, but it's a choice to remain overweight. It is something people can control. This is fact. How much you eat determines how fat you can get. It is not the same as a person's height or skin colour, and should not be treated as such.

You are against accountability, @Agent Steel. People shouldn't be held accountable for what they choose to eat. That's what you are saying with your sanctimonious and disingenuous garbage.

People posting here have not "fat shamed", or talked about fat people being inferior. You want fat people to be called victims for some fucked up woke SJW agenda that I cannot understand.

They are victims. They are victims of their own self-indulgence. There's a cure, though.

It's called a healthy diet and controlling food intake, combined with basic exercise. Everyone who has posted here, has said that you need to encourage and support fat people in this(That's not victimizing). Even the most obese person can lose weight if you do these extremely basic things.

[MistyTiger]

@Godstud You make some great points.

I am against the terminology of "fat shaming". This was not even a term when I was growing up. Sometimes talking about fat and giving it a name can seem derogatory in and of itself. The irony is that by discussing fat shaming, you could potentially be discriminating against a person because of their appearance due to their percentage of body fat. You are pointing a finger at someone else. And body shaming is not something they encourage in the medical or health industry. I like to use their clinical jargon because it is straightforward without any sort of negativity. If they talk about obese or underweight, it is in terms of a weight in kilograms or pounds or BMI if they choose to use that unit of measurement. My mother worked as a nurse way before I was born so I am comfortable discussing medical subjects in a neutral manner.

When anyone uses the words "fat" and "shaming", it seems to propagate (promote) the media's attitude towards body image. The media has created unrealistic standards in the past. But to talk about shaming, that just seems mean and religious in a way. Shame is a dirty word in my mind and no one in the 21st century should be using it unless they are some religious fanatic. I do not approve of this. People in the social media sphere are far from neutral and kind. They all fat shame when they speak about fat shaming. So if you do not want to be discriminatory, do not use their terminology.

If you want to talk about physical fitness in terms of industry terms, I am all for it. But if you throw out social terms from Reddit, Instagram, Twitter, Kardashians or other less erudite sources...I roll my eyes and distract myself with my work.

I am not sure why AgentSteel wants to talk about fat shaming and fat people when he is not fat. It seems a bit like laughing at people less fortunate than oneself. It comes across as insincere pitying and puffing up one's ego. But what do I know?