[Tainari88]

Colonialism is deeply linked to imperialism and economic interests within a capitalist economic model. Invasions and control and domination of large land bases that are not officially part of the Imperial power (you know which nations in the past and in the present still pursue these policies, are an advocate for wars and invasions. It is all justified for 'the greater good. Usually, the greater good is about making sure the Empire nation profits or grows its territory without respecting the civil or natural rights of the people who occupied that land or who live in a society that is not the Imperial one.

If you examine wars it is always about expansion and control. Extracting wealth, power, and control from invaded societies is always the goal.

The justification is always the same. We are bringing civilization, superior technology, superior governance, superior values, superior, superior. It is about GREED and LIES and JUSTIFICATIONS for criminal acts.

It dehumanizes people. They are children, lack the maturity to rule themselves, they are a mess, we need to bring law and order, we got the truth...and other extreme lies in order to justify the invasions. It is in every single attempt at colonizing and re-colonizing lands.

If you read this article on Current Affairs website it sums it up well. It is not playing the victim. It is about the reality of what invasions lead to. Violence and pain, damage to the environment, and death to entire societies and their homes and villages and towns and cities. Disruption, homelessness, unemployment, hunger, deprivation, and lots of lost opportunities for self-development. It has vast repercussions for all. The people who invade don't respect anything really. It is always about themselves and either money or power. Not what is best for everyone.

I really detest colonialism and arrogant imperial ambitions. I see evidence of it in the old colonial histories of the cities I love and lived in as a child and young person. It is there in front of you....those fighting off piracy and armies from other nations, and a lack of respect from the ones invading. In everything they do.

Denial won't ever help. Stop denying and start taking responsibility for the stupid idea of thinking you have a right to invade and force your way in. It is not possible that people don't know what it is about. They do. To think they will give up on a need to be free or to control their own nation and that they will think your love of your own superiority is going to be accepted is foolish and unrealistic in the long run. That is the truth.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/09/ ... sm-was-bad

[Robert Urbanek]

“The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.” — Paulo Freire, Brazilian philosopher and educator

[Pants-of-dog]

“The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.” — Paulo Freire, Brazilian philosopher and educator

This is also related to colonialism.

After the colonized throw off their oppressors, they are left with the conundrum of how to form a government. Usually, the type of government that existed before colonialism has been forcibly destroyed by the colonisers. So that is a no-go, and most end up copying the corrupt cronyist government that ruled the country before the revolution.

[Tainari88]

This is also related to colonialism.

After the colonized throw off their oppressors, they are left with the conundrum of how to form a government. Usually, the type of government that existed before colonialism has been forcibly destroyed by the colonisers. So that is a no-go, and most end up copying the corrupt cronyist government that ruled the country before the revolution.

Governments after major upheavals are fragile things. It is a miracle the USA held on to its revolution. The White House was burned to the ground in the early 19th century. It could have all gone to naught if certain circumstances had not aligned themselves to continue the independence of the USA. It is the same for many nations who seek change.

Haiti hated its oppressive slave situation. They burned the only means for making money to the ground to make a permanent change. They were punished severely for it since.

History is rife with such examples.

[Tainari88]

“The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.” — Paulo Freire, Brazilian philosopher and educator

I knew Paulo Freire personally. When I was a kid he stayed at my house. He always strived to make the center of his philosophy the ability for self transformation. You can not repeat what you have internalized that is negative. You got to do a lot better than the oppressors who taught you how to live in fear and in pain taught you. You got to rise above. That is everyone's challenge for sure.

[jimjam]

Denial won't ever help. Stop denying and start taking responsibility for the stupid idea of thinking you have a right to invade and force your way in. It is not possible that people don't know what it is about. They do. To think they will give up on a need to be free or to control their own nation and that they will think your love of your own superiority is going to be accepted is foolish and unrealistic in the long run. That is the truth.

I have always detested what the "white man" did to the American Indians in their push westward to claim Indian lands while killing thousands of Indians and generally treating them like shit. One of my favorite snippets of history took place in 1876 When Custer and many of his trained killers got their asses kicked in their "last stand".


The fight was an overwhelming victory for the Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and Arapaho, who were led by several major war leaders, including Crazy Horse and Chief Gall, and had been inspired by the visions of Sitting Bull (Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotake). The U.S. 7th Cavalry, a force of 700 men, suffered a major defeat while commanded by Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer (formerly a brevetted major general during the American Civil War). Five of the 7th Cavalry's twelve companies were annihilated and Custer was killed, as were two of his brothers, a nephew, and a brother-in-law. The total U.S. casualty count included 268 dead and 55 severely wounded (six died later from their wounds),[14]: 244  including four Crow Indian scouts and at least two Arikara Indian scouts.

[Rich]

I have always detested what the "white man" did to the American Indians in their push westward to claim Indian lands while killing thousands of Indians and generally treating them like shit.

Why? Why do you get so exercised about this but you never seem to lose any sleep over what the Comanche did to the Apaches, what the Lakota did to the Cheyenne, what the Zulu did to the Zwide?

Savage competition over limited resources is what made us human. Why do you think humans are so intelligent? Its because Hominoids rose to the point where the greatest threat to survival and expansion were other hominoids. It was this genocidal competition between hominoids that provided the differential rates of survival to support the huge biological costs of the over sized human brains. Read your Bible, just don't take it too literally. Genesis describes the huge population expansion that's possible from a single a couple if there are no resource limits. And it also describes the brutality and savagery that is necessary to keep that expansion going once resource limits are reached.

Without resource limits a woman can easily have four children survive to reproduce. That means that the population can double in a single generation of 30 years. That means that the population can increase by a factor of ten in a hundred years. That means that without resource limits in a mere thousand years Adam and Eve can become twenty billion people.

A few thousand years ago, large multi ethnic, multi religious, multi cultural societies started to develop. These created moral confusion as the old tribal and even ethnic loyalties and their associated parochial moralities no longer made sense. With them we see the rise of universalist religions and ideologies. In another thread by posted a video about Jim Crow lynchings. Their behaviour strikes most of us soft modern cosmopolitan types as somewhat barbaric, even savage. But be under no illusions, the Apaches were worse, much worse! I shudder to think what would have happened if the Apaches, the Zulus or even the Maoris had had the technology to reach London, Paris or Moscow.

The good news today is that Russian and Chinese populations look likely to collapse rather than expand.

[ckaihatsu]

genocidal competition between hominoids

Rich, you're whitewashing history and European culpability by trying to make imperialism and genocide sound like some kind of petri-dish 'accident' of emergent circumstances (like Jared Diamond).

Spain only cared about the *gold* -- why can't we look at politics and economics when it comes to *Western imperialism* -- ?

[Rancid]

The good news today is that Russian and Chinese populations look likely to collapse rather than expand.

Looks like? No, this will happen. That's actually what scares me about China.

Perhaps we don't have to worry about Russian/Chinese colonialism in the long term. However, there is still room for lots of destruction and chaos. Russia is doing that as we speak. This is their last chance at colonialist expansionism before their demographic collapse. Putin knows this, this is why he's doing this now (also, he's getting old). China will likely start a war when it reaches a similar position as Russia is in now. China is heading for a demographic collapse as well, and thus, will eventually end up in a "now or never situation" and start a war. The thing is, they will lose out anyway in the long term, even if they make gains. This must happen given people like Putin/Xi are pinning their legacies (and cult of personalities) on restoring the "great" past (sounds like Trump right? THis is why Trump is bad for America and the world). They basically have no choice but to start wars in order to try and keep their power. The question becomes, how much needless destruction will they cause along the way to their demise?

Anyway, as for the general point of the thread. It's important to understand and learn from the past to try and correct mistakes, but it's more important to not dwell on the past so much either. This is how you end up with a Putin that is a "man of history" and uses this as an excuse to create destruction. When people get so hung up on the past, they become willing to engage in destruction to "right" history. Same with China. Same with individual people in their day to day lives.

The west still has a lot of work to do, but it would be foolish to believe there has been no progress either; it would be foolish to believe we cannot make more progress. After all, Europe gave up most of its colonies, is that not progress? Civil rights are better now than they were 50 years ago in the west, is that not progress? We just need to keep working on it.

[jimjam]

Why? Why do you get so exercised about this but you never seem to lose any sleep over what the Comanche did to the Apaches, what the Lakota did to the Cheyenne, what the Zulu did to the Zwide?

You two wrongs make a right guys have a philosophy i am unable to subscribe to. I know my thinking doesn't stand a chance in the "real world" but i am one of those fools who lead with the heart and not the head in matters of war and mass suffering. I guess the mass gassing of millions during WW2 was OK due to: (fill in the blanc).......................


The Bear River Massacre of 1863 near what’s now Preston, Idaho, left roughly 350 members of the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation dead, making it the bloodiest — and most deadly — slaying of Native Americans by the U.S. military, according to historians and tribal leaders. The Indians were slain after soldiers came into a valley where they were camping for the winter and attacked, leaving roughly 90 women and children among the dead.

After reading your position i guess this ^ is ok because the Lakota were killers of Cheyenne:

I know that I am hopelessly idealistic but, i prefer that to surrendering to hopeless hate and mass murders. But, those are my values .


Earth population out of control? Hey ....... ever heard of birth control?

[Tainari88]

Looks like? No, this will happen. That's actually what scares me about China.

Perhaps we don't have to worry about Russian/Chinese colonialism in the long term. However, there is still room for lots of destruction and chaos. Russia is doing that as we speak. This is their last chance at colonialist expansionism before their demographic collapse. Putin knows this, this is why he's doing this now (also, he's getting old). China will likely start a war when it reaches a similar position as Russia is in now. China is heading for a demographic collapse as well, and thus, will eventually end up in a "now or never situation" and start a war. The thing is, they will lose out anyway in the long term, even if they make gains. This must happen given people like Putin/Xi are pinning their legacies (and cult of personalities) on restoring the "great" past (sounds like Trump right? THis is why Trump is bad for America and the world). They basically have no choice but to start wars in order to try and keep their power. The question becomes, how much needless destruction will they cause along the way to their demise?

Anyway, as for the general point of the thread. It's important to understand and learn from the past to try and correct mistakes, but it's more important to not dwell on the past so much either. This is how you end up with a Putin that is a "man of history" and uses this as an excuse to create destruction. When people get so hung up on the past, they become willing to engage in destruction to "right" history. Same with China. Same with individual people in their day-to-day lives.

The west still has a lot of work to do, but it would be foolish to believe there has been no progress either; it would be foolish to believe we cannot make more progress. After all, Europe gave up most of its colonies, is that not progress? Civil rights are better now than they were 50 years ago in the west, is that not progress? We just need to keep working on it.

I like your last line. Got to keep working on it. Even the collapse of many human civilizations was a stepping stone to improvements. In the American Civil War, the losers in the conflict (the Confederates), tried to hold on to a slave system by moving to other nations like Brazil that still held on to slavery until 1899. But slavery was doomed. Mainly because the way it was set up economically was not going along with the progress of industrialization that was in full swing in the Northern states and the need for wage labor. Not slave labor. I happen to think that this entire UBI and AI thing will be a gamechanger. People need freedom from wage slavery and to have time for self-development. They need stable housing and decent education, clean water and clean air, and clean food. The current rapacious forms of a capitalist tiny minority making billions and trillions, banks and Wall Street making billions and trillions, and the vast working people and middle-class people, having to live in vans and in temp housing, while both parents are working paying off hospitalization bills, and child care bills, to the point of never vacationing, and never being able to pay for a regular house in a regular city in the USA won't work! There will be pressure and the elite in the USA especially will be begging for a very long protracted war from disgruntled USA citizens that keep voting for a dysfunctional two-party system that doesn't respond to them. Only to whomever pays them off. That is the reality. They can't get anything done!

As for China and Russia if those nations continue down the path of authoritarian controlling shit behavior on their own and other populations? They will get a backlash as well. The common people should rule the policies and the ways in which the government brokers solutions to their problems. If it is about some elite asskissers in those nations and in the USA? There will be war all the time.

I am angry with how Puerto Rico's needs continue to be ignored and somehow the USA finds money to fund wars and to fund all kinds of idiotic schemes that only favor the rich in the USA. They can't afford to get 300k houses in PR some hurricane-proof rooves. Why? Because they don't care about the island. You don't care? Then let the island go on its own and allow us to negotiate with Mexico, South America, DR, Europe, and Africa for better prices and create our own tax codes, and be able to kick out our own presidents and vote in our own elections. Stop holding people who live in tiny nations with no nuclear weapons hostage to greedy bankers wall street greed folks and politicians who want to play war games with the islands of the Caribbean. People want life. Freedom. Justice. Not death, living in chains and injustice.

[Tainari88]

I have always detested what the "white man" did to the American Indians in their push westward to claim Indian lands while killing thousands of Indians and generally treating them like shit. One of my favorite snippets of history took place in 1876 When Custer and many of his trained killers got their asses kicked in their "last stand".


The fight was an overwhelming victory for the Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and Arapaho, who were led by several major war leaders, including Crazy Horse and Chief Gall, and had been inspired by the visions of Sitting Bull (Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotake). The U.S. 7th Cavalry, a force of 700 men, suffered a major defeat while commanded by Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer (formerly a brevetted major general during the American Civil War). Five of the 7th Cavalry's twelve companies were annihilated and Custer was killed, as were two of his brothers, a nephew, and a brother-in-law. The total U.S. casualty count included 268 dead and 55 severely wounded (six died later from their wounds),[14]: 244  including four Crow Indian scouts and at least two Arikara Indian scouts.

I love learning about the history of the Native peoples in many nations around the world. Many people read about the 'conquistadors' that came into Mexico and took over the land and the people. They rarely study the entire history of the Native Mexican groups living here before the Spanish arrival. They should. Many tribes were never conquered. Too difficult to get them out of the land and many Spaniards gave up on it. They still remain on the ancient ancestral lands they always lived off of. Also, not all Spaniards kept their Spanish culture, many assimilated into Indigenous cultures in Mexico. I study those cases a lot. They even have neighborhoods named after Spanish citizens who married Mayans and became Mayans and gave up their Spanish roots. They assimilated and even fought the Spanish here to defend the Mayan tribe they belonged to. History is complex and to think it doesn't have many different points of view is not being intelligent. The version of history you get in schoolbooks often is very poor in better studies that you usually get in advanced studies in history or archaeology or anthropology or sociology.

The Mexican government is trying to bring back the roots of all its rich indigenous civilizations and tribes by promoting the preservation of the original languages, art forms, and written forms. Often they were prohibited by the Roman Catholic institutions in their efforts to Christianize the Mexican indigenous populations. But now there is a deep interest in bringing that back full force. They can still do that because Mexico had a lot of Indian people and even though only 10% of the original population survived they were so big a population that they could bounce back given time. The USA's had a lot of land and vast distances and smaller tribes with less organization of labor and many other factors. Immigrants brought women with them and their families. The Spanish had to have a new life with women from Mexico. Not Europe. So their families were indigenous. Not immigrant. So? They had a different history.

There is a tiny town near where I live. It is called Acanceh. It has a tiny Mayan pyramid and a beautiful Colonial Church (Roman Catholic) in the main square. The town loves its two symbols of religion and community and it honors both traditions. It shapes their identity. I think it reflects Mexico perfectly. Let me post it for you @jimjam :

[Mike12]

6248042-M.jpg (5.91 KiB) Viewed 3190 times

[Mike12]

" We shall, happily, still have an opportunity to prove that friendship in our daily attitude and actions towards the millions of men and women of German birth and native sympathy, who live amongst us and share our life, and we shall be proud to prove it towards all who are in fact loyal to their neighbours and to the Government in the hour of test. They are, most of them, as true and loyal Americans as if they had never known any other fealty or allegiance. They will be prompt to stand with us in rebuking and restraining the few who may be of a different mind and purpose. If there should be disloyalty, it will be dealt with with a firm hand of stern repression; but, if it lifts its head at all, it will lift it only here and there and without countenance except from a lawless and malignant few." -Woodrow Wilson declares war on Germany excerpt

"It has been impossible to avoid them. They have affected the life whole world. They have shaken men everywhere with a passion and anapprehension they never knew before. It has been hard to preserve calm counsel while the thought of our own people swayed this way and that undertheir influence. We are a composite and cosmopolitan people. We are of the blood of all the nations that are at war. The currents of our thoughtsas well as the currents of our trade run quick at all seasons back andforth between us and them. The war inevitably set its mark from the firstalike upon our minds, our industries, our commerce, our politics and oursocial action. To be indifferent to it, or independent of it, was out ofthe question. " -Woodrow Wilson 2nd inaugural address excerpt

French is, in many ways, more difficult for an English-speaking person to sing. It is so full of complex and trying vowels. It requires the utmost subtlety.
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/alma-gluck-quotes

When the student has her voice under complete control, it is safe to take up the lyric repertoire of Mendelssohn, Old English Songs, etc. How simple and charming they are!
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/alma-gluck-quotes
Inspired by the purse rather than the soul, the mercenary side fairly screams in many of the works put out by every day American publishers.
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/alma-gluck-quotes

[Mike12]

[Mike12]

World War 1 give Germany Nazi Uniforms, in movies, these two... Are they British movies? British movies make 1917 nazi uniforms.

[Mike12]

Public relations crosses? All underground bunkers and space stations, normal nazi flag...

[Mike12]

Once again thats never a physical flag anywhere?

[Mike12]