[Siberian Fox]

Three dead in newly-built Chinese bridge collapse

A section of a multi-million dollar bridge in China that opened in November has collapsed, leaving three people dead and five injured, state media say.

Four lorries fell off the Yangmingtan Bridge in Harbin City, Heilongjiang province, when part of it collapsed, Xinhua news agency said.

Shoddy construction and over-loading have been blamed for the incident, it added.

Officials said they will investigate to see if the lorries were overloaded.

The bridge, which spans the Songhua river and is 15.42km (9.58 miles) long, was finished nine months ago and cost 1.88bn yuan ($286m), Xinhua said.

A 100m (328ft) ramp section collapsed, causing the lorries to plummet to the ground.

Sun Qingde, an official on Harbin's construction committee, was quoted by Xinhua as saying that the ramp "tilted to one side and crashed onto the ground".

This is the sixth major bridge collapse in China since July 2011, the agency said.

[...]

Given that this was a new bridge, is this an example of lack of democracy in China leading to a poor/weak regulatory environment? Or is it just China's growth has been so fast that many construction firms working on these projects simply don't have enough experience to build these things properly?

In other words, is this the fault of the private sector, the government sector, or both?

[Goldberk]

In other words, is this the fault of the private sector, the government sector, or both?

I guess not having a reliable bureaucracy that overseas construction safety may be a key issue here, having a private sector that feels an obligation to others may help as well.

[U184]

China... Bridge.

Was anyone hurt?

[J Oswald]

This is most likely the fault of both the construction company and whichever government agency was responsible for overseeing the project. The usage of shoddy materials suggests that the company was trying to cut back on costs, while the fact that they were able to do this suggests a complete lack of oversight.

The lack of oversight is probably the result of public-private corruption. When it comes to environmental regulation, for example, oftentimes the officials responsible for regulation are colluding with factory owners (sometimes they're even part owners of the factories). I can imagine the same thing in this case.

[U184]

I just wanted to know before I asked a few other questions, mostly of Igor....



Igor, what does incompetent mean?

What does Shoddy construction mean?

Oh wait, one more.

This is the sixth major bridge collapse in China since July 2011, the agency said.

What does repetitive failures mean?

[Beren]

Sabotage, obviously.

How else could a (newly-built) Chinese bridge collapse like that?

Not to mention six bridges, in such a short period of time...

[stalker]

This is really all besides the point.

The quality of new infrastructure in EM's typically lags that of developed nations for obvious reasons: Mass scale of construction, inadequate regulatory environment, etc.

But here's the thing: China actually is building bridges. Bridges, roads, railways, seaports, airports, mass affordable housing, etc, etc.

Too many Third World countries which are less organized and competent, like India, are not doing this. It is infinitely better to have many bridges, some of which may have structural issues, than to have no bridges at all.

Really the attempt to use this to shit over China isn't convincing at all.

[Beren]

Too many Third World countries which are less organized and competent, like India, are not doing this.

What? China is a third world country? I thought she was a legitimate rival of the US!

It is infinitely better to have many bridges, some of which may have structural issues, than to have no bridges at all.

Well, from a Keynesian point of view, it really makes sense to build bridges that collapse in a year, especially when there is a crisis.

Really the attempt to use this to shit over China isn't convincing at all.

All such attempts are always pathetic, obviously. China rules, and Russia rules as well, all the time and forever!

[stalker]

What? China is a third world country? I thought she was a legitimate rival of the US!

It is no longer a Third World country (well, it never was, formally speaking, but I mean in the "poor" and "disorganized" meaning of the word), and yes, it is a legitimate rival of the US and in all probability will overtake it this decade and then massively power ahead.

Well, from a Keynesian point of view, it really makes sense to build bridges that collapse in a year, especially when there is a crisis.

Except that 99.9999% of bridges DON'T collapse. China is a big country. It is nearly twice the population of the US and Western Europe. Count up how many infrastructure accidents there are in the latter, then multiply by two, and then you'll have some basis for constructive comparison.

All such attempts are always pathetic, obviously. China rules, and Russia rules as well, all the time and forever!

For once you make some sense. As regards the BRIC's, China is of course massively superior to India, and Russia is considerably superior to Brazil.

[Beren]

It is no longer a Third World country

According to its HDI it's still a third world country, just like India.

it is a legitimate rival of the US and in all probability will overtake it this decade and then massively power ahead.

Well, I think it's questionable at least whether China is a legitimate rival of the US already, I don't think so. As for the future, we'll see.

Count up how many infrastructure accidents there are in the latter, then multiply by two, and then you'll have some basis for constructive comparison.

I just wonder how many bridges collapsed spontaneously in the US and Western Europe in the last one year.

EDIT: I think it's actually the number of (newly-built) bridges that matters rather than population.

As regards the BRIC's, China is of course massively superior to India, and Russia is considerably superior to Brazil.

According to the list of countries by Human Development Index China and India are both third world countries, while Russia and Brazil are both second world countries, but you're right. However, I'd live in Rio rather than Moscow.

[U184]

I just wonder how many bridges collapsed spontaneously in the US and Western Europe in the last one year.

You would have to only look at the bridges being 1 to 2 years old though, as comparing a bridge made in the 30's would not be cool, I wonder how many structures they have intact from WWI/WWII.

[Social_Critic]

Fox, my daughter worked as a professor in a Chinese University, and she returned to the states after a couple of years. She told me the system was very corrupt, parents would come to see her with cash so she would raise their sons' grades, and would become enraged because she refused - apparently other professors thought it was ok to raise grades in exchange for cash, sometimes discounts at a store, things like that. She taught at an engineering school.

[Chill]

Fox, my daughter worked as a professor in a Chinese University, and she returned to the states after a couple of years. She told me the system was very corrupt, parents would come to see her with cash so she would raise their sons' grades, and would become enraged because she refused - apparently other professors thought it was ok to raise grades in exchange for cash, sometimes discounts at a store, things like that. She taught at an engineering school.

Well there are too many 'Universities' in China and I wonder what kind of university your daughter works in. These ones are at least better than those which cheat for money and close the next day.

[Social_Critic]

Chill, I said she left. She didn't like the corruption. I'm an engineer by training, and it' evident to me they must be getting lots of things done by people who are poorly trained. This means the new infrastructure is full of gaps and potential problems, especially when it comes to high winds, earthquakes, and possibly shoddy materials. The old Soviet Union had this problem, but it was due to the way communism doesn't work. I have also noted the same issue in other places, in Turkey for example. And it also happens sometimes in the US, for example the lousy housing code and inspector corruption we saw which led to the huge loses during hurricanes in South Florida in the last 10 years or so.

[stalker]

I doubt the Chinese miss her.

Complaining Westerners are a dime a dozen in developing countries. If anything China bend over backwards to appease laowai a bit more well-merited xenophobia would do them good.

[jaytrance]

Fox, my daughter worked as a professor in a Chinese University, and she returned to the states after a couple of years. She told me the system was very corrupt, parents would come to see her with cash so she would raise their sons' grades, and would become enraged because she refused - apparently other professors thought it was ok to raise grades in exchange for cash, sometimes discounts at a store, things like that. She taught at an engineering school.

Or maybe your daughter is just a bad professor, and she is just sacked Seen too many terrible so-called foreign professors during my university. About the grades problem, depends on which university she's in. In some schools, local professors would raise a sudent's grade point if he tells the professor he would like to study abroad after graduation, of cousre, the student himself should study hard first.Then the professor will give the student the most grade he can give. Too many people and too many competitions here. Sometimes someone loses not because he's not excellent, but defeafed by the population. So professors will help those hard-study students or students with dreams. Or just as you say,corruption, but that usually happen in low-ranked universities..

[Terrik]

Or maybe your daughter is just a bad professor, and she is just sacked Seen too many terrible so-called foreign professors during my university. About the grades problem, depends on which university she's in. In some schools, local professors would raise a sudent's grade point if he tells the professor he would like to study abroad after graduation, of cousre, the student himself should study hard first.Then the professor will give the student the most grade he can give. Too many people and too many competitions here. Sometimes someone loses not because he's not excellent, but defeafed by the population. So professors will help those hard-study students or students with dreams. Or just as you say,corruption, but that usually happen in low-ranked universities..

Well, I myself worked at 武大 and 中南财经大学 and both those universities had that problem. Unfortunately, while perhaps some professors like to help for good reasons, others are downright awful. The Conservatory of Music here in Shanghai for example. A close friend of mine is a master's level student at the top of her class. She's been trying hard to get over to Europe to enter into a Doctorate program. She's been blocked time and time again by her professor for refusing to sleep with him. On many occasions she's come to see him in his office over school-related matters and he would shut the door behind her and attempt to be physical to the point where she wouldn't dare enter his office again without someone with her. Just last month a lower level classmate was given her chance to study abroad by this same professor who said he had "no idea" she wanted to go abroad. Of course, being a top professor at the school and a ranking member in the Party, she would get more in trouble for reporting his misconduct than he would. She eventually had to bypass the school entirely and appeal for direct help from a German music university where she'll be going next month. It also laughably puts on concerts for their international competition winners and makes the students themselves them foot the bill for paying the players to perform at a concert that they didn't even plan.

This is the top music school in China.

Low level, high level--it's all a mix of corruption and guanxi where there are rules in paper but no rules in practice. Whether you like it or not depends on who you are and how much guanxi you or your family has. It works wonderfully for students with connections but unfortunately can crush even highly talented students from reaching their potential.

[Igor Antunov]

I guess this means the country itself will collapse. Just like that high speed train crash, this is a sign of the end times for China. Better halt all development projects, and hand over power to an EU commissioner who will oversee development and bring prosperity to the Chinese people.

And by the way, this is a list of actual 'bridge' collapses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures as opposed to sections of elevated roadway connected to a bridge.

For further reference, this is a bridge:



Give me a holler when it collapses.

[Franker65]

The bridge collapse is really embarrassing for China - things like this really shouldn't be happening anymore, if you look at statistics regarding the development of China. It seems to be the same cutting corners attitudes like counterfit/low quality cooking oil or the high speed rail crash. They need to use their money to inject some quality into their new found infrastructural achievements and assets.

[Political Interest]

All developing countries have these problems. Within thirty years as Chinese safety standards and engineering improve I wonder if we will still see these incidents taking place? In the old days many other countries were viewed as producing second rate goods. China has only been opening its economy since 1979. It is a large country and development cannot happen overnight. The Chinese economy is still growing, even if it is at a slower rate.