[mikema63]

Hopefully none, CPUSA is complete shit. May as well vote for the democrats.

[park]

Hopefully none, CPUSA is complete shit. May as well vote for the democrats.

Why is it shit?

[Pants-of-dog]

I spent those formative years listening to people talk about how they would do (insert whatever here) when the revolution came.

We imagined it in some glorious future where we would live in a stateless society of equality. Of course, the revolution never arrived.

I learned two things:

1. The revolution will never arrive. It is as realistic to wait for the revolution before getting to work as it is to wait for the second coming of Christ.
2. The revolution is happening right here right now. Are you fighting today to make the world a better and more just place or not?

The revolution is civilisation. It is, in fact, the most progressive of us dragging the rest of kicking and screaming into a better tomorrow.

[park]

I spent those formative years listening to people talk about how they would do (insert whatever here) when the revolution came.

We imagined it in some glorious future where we would live in a stateless society of equality. Of course, the revolution never arrived.

I learned two things:

1. The revolution will never arrive. It is as realistic to wait for the revolution before getting to work as it is to wait for the second coming of Christ.
2. The revolution is happening right here right now. Are you fighting today to make the world a better and more just place or not?

The revolution is civilisation. It is, in fact, the most progressive of us dragging the rest of kicking and screaming into a better tomorrow.

I don't agree. If it's been done it can be done. I mean,how is it possible that Americans who are left to die because the State doesn't even pay an hospital for them don't consider voting a Communist party? I was talking about it with Zagadka. With a better PR the Communist movement can gain supporters.

[Varax]

There's no way they can beat the capitalist control of main stream media. Revolution and armed opposition is the only way to take power.

This is incredibly simplistic. You'll never get anywhere if there isn't a mass movement and that means spreading your message, activism, organization, etc. well before anything resembling a revolution.

Also while it generally true that the ruling ideas stem from the ruling class and that corporate mainstream media plays a large role in this it is not absolute in its control. There always exists counter ideas and even now a large portion of people are growing disillusioned and cynical towards the standard line that comes from those in power. Information is spreading faster than ever and is becoming decentralized. Plenty of political movements around the world are taking advantage of this.

How many Americans vote for the Communist party thanks to his pr?

Difficult to really gauge support based on this. In the presidential elections the communist and socialist parties combined typically don't get more than 12,000-15,000 votes. Then again with the way ballot access works they typically can only get on in a few states each election cycle. In 2012 the Marxist-Leninist group PSL had 9,388 votes but was only the ballot in 13 states.

Then again the Socialist Alternative candidate Kshama Sawant got elected to the Seattle City Council last year with 93,000 votes and that was just one city. So small victories in local elections like that certainly are possible, even in the US now.

Hopefully none, CPUSA is complete shit. May as well vote for the democrats.

Also simplistic.

1. Calling the CPUSA "complete shit" is unnecessarily dismissive and fails to take a real look at the party. Yes it is true that the CPUSA has been gutted by infiltration from the FBI and other agencies, disinformation spread about it and the decline wrought over fall of the USSR. The current leadership is indeed inept and has shown itself to led by sellouts by endorsing Obama and other Democrat candidates which only serves to further right wing agenda that tries to label Obama as being "communist endorsed" or claiming that his is a socialist of some kind. The party itself however is apparently divided between this essentially hijacked leadership and those who are genuine Marxist-Leninists who want to salvage the CPUSA as a proper far-left party and return it to its Leninist roots. Further it still has "name recognition" and a somewhat substantial party infrastructure which still attracts a number of people interested in the movement. So it still yet may play role and parts of party may yet be salvageable. Or at least this is what I've been told by some CPUSA members unsatisfied with their current leadership.

2. I'm not sure why this question needs to necessarily imply the CPUSA in the first place since there are several communist and far-left parties in the US. Groups such as the Party of Socialism and Liberation and Socialist Alternative have actually been growing. The failures of the CPUSA doesn't necessarily extend to the other far-left parties in the US.

1. The revolution will never arrive.

A lot can happen between now and "never". Are you by any chance a future psychic?

How many revolutions have occurred throughout history? How many have occurred just over the past century or so? We have only been engaged in heavy industry as a species for a couple of centuries now. The current capitalist order is but a tiny blip in the span of human history and an even smaller seemingly infinitesimal blip on the span of Earth's history. Yet you suppose that this order will not usurped as it itself has largely usurped the orders that came before it?

I'm sure if went back 20 years before some of the great revolutions in history and asked people if they thought these revolutions were likely most would find the idea laughable. Yet they happened.

"All revolutions are impossible until they happen, then they become inevitable."

2. The revolution is happening right here right now.

This seems to contradict your point above but further it is also consist with Marxist notions on this issue. The economic and social conditions of society are indeed changing. Our technology continues to progress. The conditions of new societies are built on the foundations of the old. There are moments in the development of our civilization that existing superstructure becomes outmoded, archaic and unable to better service that civilization. It is times like these when the gradual developments of society necessitate stronger revolutionary breaks.

[Pants-of-dog]

I don't agree. If it's been done it can be done. I mean,how is it possible that Americans who are left to die because the State doesn't even pay an hospital for them don't consider voting a Communist party? I was talking about it with Zagadka. With a better PR the Communist movement can gain supporters.

The economic conditions that lead to revolution are not severe enough in the First World. Until they worsen considerably, US citizens will look towards other, less militant, solutions.

A lot can happen between now and "never". Are you by any chance a future psychic?

How many revolutions have occurred throughout history? How many have occurred just over the past century or so? We have only been engaged in heavy industry as a species for a couple of centuries now. The current capitalist order is but a tiny blip in the span of human history and an even smaller seemingly infinitesimal blip on the span of Earth's history. Yet you suppose that this order will not usurped as it itself has largely usurped the orders that came before it?

I'm sure if went back 20 years before some of the great revolutions in history and asked people if they thought these revolutions were likely most would find the idea laughable. Yet they happened.

"All revolutions are impossible until they happen, then they become inevitable."

The revolution will not happen in any developed nation for the foreseeable future, and in the non-foreseeable future, it seems that we have an even chance of arriving at a post-scarcity economy before arriving at a revolution.

This seems to contradict your point above but further it is also consist with Marxist notions on this issue. The economic and social conditions of society are indeed changing. Our technology continues to progress. The conditions of new societies are built on the foundations of the old. There are moments in the development of our civilization that existing superstructure becomes outmoded, archaic and unable to better service that civilization. It is times like these when the gradual developments of society necessitate stronger revolutionary breaks.

You are correct that it contradicts my previous notion. In fact, it only makes sense if you redefine revolution to mean any act that quickens the change to a better world.

[KlassWar]

Cm'on, PoD. This is the final, agonic crisis of capitalism.

Throughout the first world, the class enemy is engaging on a final, suicidal, desperate offensive in order to maintain the rate of profit, dismantling the welfare state consensus that kept the working masses from just beating, butchering and skinning them alive.

Far left militancy is on the rise throughout Europe, and things look pretty good for Southern European communists atm. At any rate the international order that maintained the bourgeoisie in power is unraveling and it will continue to unravel at increasing speed. And as always, the destruction of conservatives and class enemies in one country tends to spark big copycat effects in neighboring countries (they're called revolutionary waves for a reason :P).

Socialist revolution is the natural, inexorable fate of human history.

[Pants-of-dog]

Cm'on, PoD. This is the final, agonic crisis of capitalism.

People said that back when I was younger, and then the capitalists won the Cold War.

Throughout the first world, the class enemy is engaging on a final, suicidal, desperate offensive in order to maintain the rate of profit, dismantling the welfare state consensus that kept the working masses from just beating, butchering and skinning them alive.

Far left militancy is on the rise throughout Europe, and things look pretty good for Southern European communists atm. At any rate the international order that maintained the bourgeoisie in power is unraveling and it will continue to unravel at increasing speed. And as always, the destruction of conservatives and class enemies in one country tends to spark big copycat effects in neighboring countries (they're called revolutionary waves for a reason :P).

Socialist revolution is the natural, inexorable fate of human history.

Sure. Okay. And when that happens, I will be sure and continue my existing work, knowing it will unfold even faster now that we no longer have to play nice with capitalists. However, I hope you understand if I do not leap to the assumption that I now can stop my work because the revolution (that is right around the corner) will somehow solve everything before my next decade.

[ComradeTim]

We no longer have to play nice with capitalists.

My God, a Theistic Commie. I'm lookin for those flying pigs out my window but I don't see 'em. I may need to lie down in a darkened room.

[Pants-of-dog]

My God, a Theistic Commie. I'm lookin for those flying pigs out my window but I don't see 'em. I may need to lie down in a darkened room.

I am glad that I was able to dispel some of your previously held myths.

[ComradeTim]

I don't envy you comrade. There are many here who would liquidate you, regardless of political belief, (myself no included).

[The Immortal Goon]

The Middle Class, as we know it, is an historic anomaly. I don't want this to be true, and I feel like it isn't—it's how I grew up—but it is.

We sense this. In the UK, in the US, throughout the first world. The fundamental fact has been that, in the history of capitalism, this has been an anomaly. It was never sustainable, this idea of everyone evening out. The only reason it did at all was because there was a massive imperialist war, following by violent revolution and reaction—resulting in the first world being flooded with heavily armed and trained military men that knew each other's experiences...And they had to be paid. Alexander took his military the hard way back, getting rid of 2/3rds of the money that was owed. In the, "First World," government programs and taxation was set not unlike it had been in previous decades to fund total war. Social Security, universal healthcare, etc.

But this is over now. It was never going to be expanded for the world because the fundamental system that the military had protected was still there. Further, despite production being unparalleled, the resources are not set up to be distributed based upon anything more than profit.

Were I 19, as a militant at the time, I would be more hard pushed. But I'm older than that now, and have invested a lot into trying to do what conventional knowledge had told me to do. This was, and is, reality at the moment. But my children's reality will be different than the anomaly that I was grown up to expect. And their children different still.

I'm not someone that romanticizes the idea of violent murder and revolution. I'm already too old to be trying such things. But that won't always be the case. The most dire predictions about the future economy, the current trends about the wealth of the rich and the poverty of the poor, these are all exactly what we'd expect to see if we saw the post-war years as an anomaly (for whites, it was of course a different reality with minorities). We all know that a single man on an assembly line used to be able to buy a house, a car, and send his kids to college. Then it took two jobs, then two good jobs, then two good jobs and a lot of debt, then two good jobs and a lot of debt and each of the kids having real jobs as early as was legally allowed. We're moving back to how the system evolved to be.

The class struggle isn't over. It just hit the snooze button on the alarm.

[Dagoth Ur]

We're entering a time where I feel like zero reasonable predictions can be made for even a few years ahead, and that space of time is shortening. It's an interesting time to be alive.

I don't envy you comrade. There are many here who would liquidate you, regardless of political belief, (myself no included).

Who would liquidate POD? He'd probably be on board with nearly everything we did. I don't even think he would resort to becoming a wrecker even if he was dissatisfied with us.

[ComradeTim]

Who would liquidate POD? He'd probably be on board with nearly everything we did. I don't even think he would resort to becoming a wrecker even if he was dissatisfied with us.

Well for one he seems to hold with "bourgeois morality". But mostly because he believes in God. For some people, that would signify not being firmly enough attached to the revolution, a capital crime. But thats just my opinion/observation.

[The Immortal Goon]

Though I'm an atheist, I side with James Connolly:

This is the main reason why Socialists fight shy of theological dogmas and religions generally: because we feel that Socialism is based upon a series of facts requiring only unassisted human reason to grasp and master all their details, whereas Religion of every kind is admittedly based upon ‘faith’ in the occurrence in past ages of a series of phenomena inexplicable by any process of mere human reasoning. Obviously, therefore, to identify Socialism with Religion would be to abandon at once that universal, non-sectarian character which to-day we find indispensable to working-class unity, as it would mean that our members would be required to conform to one religious creed, as well as to one specific economic faith – a course of action we have no intention of entering upon as it would inevitably entangle us in the disputes of the warring sects of the world, and thus lead to the disintegration of the Socialist Party.

Socialism, as a party, bases itself upon its knowledge of facts, of economic truths, and leaves the building up of religious ideals or faiths to the outside public, or to its individual members if they so will. It is neither Freethinker nor Christian, Turk nor Jew, Buddhist nor Idolator, Mahommedan nor Parsee – it is only human.

[Donna]

This is the final, agonic crisis of capitalism.

Agitators have always been saying this and capitalism has always managed to restructure itself.

[quetzalcoatl]

Agitators have always been saying this and capitalism has always managed to restructure itself.

Many critics of capitalism don't fully appreciate the viral nature of capitalism. It mutates under stress, throwing off numerous strands until another semi-stable equilibrium point is found. My view is that all economies are capitalistic* (including communism, fascism, and New Deal style progressivism). These experiments were all products of the nineteenth century Capitalist DNA fracturing under stress. Capitalism is a complex adaptive system; it will maintain a homeostatic stability as long as possible, until that point when it no longer can. The current neo-classical iteration is already exhibiting the usual signs of distress: shortening time periods between successive rounds of instability, institutional rigidity, and political polarization/gridlock.

So yes capitalism can restructure itself, but it is not guaranteed it will succeed in doing so...just as it is not assured that any species will survive environmental challenge. The vulnerable time is when the old world-system is dying and the new one not yet born. If you live long enough you may see interesting changes coming your way.

*All economic systems are capitalist to the extent they rely on debt-instruments (money) to function. Debt has its own logic and dictates certain foundational structures (even in a nominally communist system). This is why some anarchists are correct in pinpointing the existence of money as the basic impediment to a classless society.

[KlassWar]

This is why some anarchists are correct in pinpointing the existence of money as the basic impediment to a classless society.

I'd contend that class enemies are a much bigger impediment in the way of a classless society .

[park]

We're entering a time where I feel like zero reasonable predictions can be made for even a few years ahead, and that space of time is shortening. It's an interesting time to be alive.

Who would liquidate POD? He'd probably be on board with nearly everything we did. I don't even think he would resort to becoming a wrecker even if he was dissatisfied with us.

The times where Communist revolutions really happened were more interesting. There was the real possibilty of new communist nations,maybe not in the USA but in other nations the possibility was there. Now it's almost impossible after the USSR collapse.

[KlassWar]

The times where Communist revolutions really happened were more interesting. There was the real possibilty of new communist nations,maybe not in the USA but in other nations the possibility was there. Now it's almost impossible after the USSR collapse.

What do you mean almost impossible? There weren't any socialist countries before the Russian Revolution, either. There will be a next revolutionary wave, and it'll be sooner than you think.