[JohannKaspurSchmidt]

I would like to know why communist statists worldwide have historically violently persecuted anarchists. Anybody?

[Goldberk]

Well first off many on the left (including anarchists) would call a communist state an oxymoron, however many authoritarian communists (including Marxists) consider the use of state power the only effective tool to reach communism, a point of disagreement with anarchists.

This disagreement leads to conflict as anarchists agitate against state power and the authoritarian structures that authoritarian communists inhabit, thus in many revolutionary situations thy will oppose each other.

[JohannKaspurSchmidt]

Well first off many on the left (including anarchists) would call a communist state an oxymoron, however many authoritarian communists (including Marxists) consider the use of state power the only effective tool to reach communism, a point of disagreement with anarchists.

This disagreement leads to conflict as anarchists agitate against state power and the authoritarian structures that authoritarian communists inhabit, thus in many revolutionary situations thy will oppose each other.

Makes sense.

I like pointing this historical tid bit out to modern day anarchists who align themselves with communists because many are completely ignorant of history moreover much of the modern day anarchist movement I would argue has been hijacked by communists to fit their own agenda.

As a anarchist I see other anarchists aligning themselves with communists as a betrayal to anarchism.

I thank you for outlining this betrayal and conundrum here for everybody to see in detail.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Anarchists just need to know their place.

We should stand side-by-side until the bourgeoisie is finished, only then can the differences be afforded a time.

[JohannKaspurSchmidt]

Anarchists just need to know their place.

We should stand side-by-side until the bourgeoisie is finished, only then can the differences be afforded a time.

Laughs, the enemy of my enemy who also is just another one of my enemies, is my friend? I think not but you communists have managed to trick a majority of anarchists that they are somehow doing themselves a favor by aligning with you. I for one am not fooled.

I'll give you credit for your brutal honesty. *Nods*

[The Clockwork Rat]

Do you not believe that capitalism is the greatest threat of modern times?

I think you are mistaken in believing that we have little in common. After all, the elimination of the bourgeoisie is only the end of class struggle.

[JohannKaspurSchmidt]

I agree that capitalism is terrible I just don't think statist socialism is that much better.

Either way the elites have no loyalties to politics or governmental and economic platforms as they are only loyal to profit motives. They'll play one side against the other if it allows themselves to make a quick buck.

Besides some of anarchists are not too hot on all your communist plans like the communist political vanguard.

[Goldberk]

I agree with TCR to a certain extent, for all it's faults I would rather live in a system akin to the Soviet Union than the hegemonic liberal hell that we live through today

[fuser]

Simply put you are just a tool in taking the power from bourgeoisie, a power that you won't take but we will and if you or any one for that matter tries to hinder that because of petty idealism will face similar fate irrespective of their ideology.

[The Clockwork Rat]

I agree that capitalism is terrible I just don't think statist socialism is that much better.

Either way the elites have no loyalties to politics or governmental and economic platforms as they are only loyal to profit motives. They'll play one side against the other if it allows themselves to make a quick buck.

Besides some of anarchists are not too hot on all your communist plans like the communist political vanguard.

To be honest, I don't have a bloody clue what use a political vanguard would have nowadays. It may have been key to the October Revolution, but we don't live in feudal Russian any longer. Knowledge and critique is no longer the preserve of the few.

I find your comment on sides being played against one another slightly ironic by the way.

I agree with TCR to a certain extent, for all it's faults I would rather live in a system akin to the Soviet Union than the hegemonic liberal hell that we live through today

The only anarchists that deserve persecution are those that are liberals in disguise, and who pave the way for the re-emergence of class struggle. In other words, what fuser said... before I hit submit.

[Cartertonian]

As a anarchist...

Hello. Being an anarchist, you won't like rules very much...but you should be aware that your avatar breaks ours. Please follow the example set by your fellow members and find an appropriate photograph.

Thank you.

[Goldberk]

Simply put you are just a tool in taking the power from bourgeoisie, a power that you won't take but we will

Ahh but you not only take their power but their structural role, "from pig to man and man to pig"

[fuser]

Of course and we never denied it. The state's role of an oppressor will continue and only difference being that this time, the class who will be on receiving end will be a different one.

[The Clockwork Rat]

you not only take their power but their structural role

That is a numbingly simplistic analysis. Of course a socialist revolution will necessitate taking control of the state, but this is only part of the process of emancipating production from the bourgeoisie. I personally don't desire the state to exist any longer than necessary.

[fuser]

Basically Anarchists (real not phoney one) have same end goal the only difference being, communists have a blue print for how to achieve that end goal where as anarchists don't.

Materialism ftw.

[The Clockwork Rat]

I believe there are some anarchists whose beliefs could be interpreted as blueprints, but I don't think I could do them justice. Nevertheless, they are not like Goldberk.

[Far-Right Sage]

The state's role of an oppressor will continue and only difference being that this time, the class who will be on receiving end will be a different one.

Announcing this stated intention openly has never been a particularly great method for building middle class support, Fuser.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Most of the middle classes are economically members of the proletariat, but their individual financial equality with the petit-bourgeoisie masks their real conditions to both themselves and many politicals. This is an unfortunate side effect of "class" referring to divisions in the separate concepts of culture and economy

[Goldberk]

Of course and we never denied it. The state's role of an oppressor will continue and only difference being that this time, the class who will be on receiving end will be a different one.

But the entire proletariat will not occupy an advanced position, only a vanguard who then become a new ruling class.

but this is only part of the process of emancipating production from the bourgeoisie.

The means of production remain in the hands of a small group, a "ruling class", it is only through the abolition of authority that true emancipation can occur.

[RhetoricThug]

Basically Anarchists (real not phoney one) have same end goal the only difference being, communists have a blue print for how to achieve that end goal where as anarchists don't.

But you are just as authoritarian as the far right. Also, your blueprint is fundamentally plagued with fallacy- your experiments always go straight to the head and churn the old saying- absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You cannot wish to liberate the proletariat by structural division. The state needs to go, let go of it, it does nothing but oppress. You using anarchists as a tool says enough about your grand scheme. What, are you going to send all anarchists to the gulag after the revolution? You can't kill an ideology, but go ahead suppress all you want.

Just because the system has beat you down enough to accept the notion that a power structure must be in place, doesn't mean you need to give into it. Doesn't mean you can write off any other idea that does not concern the state as too fantastic and absurd. Playing within the box is all too easy, laughing at the anyone who wants to escape- claiming those people to be unrealistic- you are ruthless.