[Attica]

Other than last year's Commodore release (I love the Caprice.. salivatingly classy) and maybe the new Epica - which looks like a clone of the Toyota Aurion, (and a number of concept cars including the Efigy) every other vehicle Holden has right now (especially the 'Passenger Car' range is an absolutely disgusting piece of crap. Seriously, these are some of the ugliest cars on offer right now, and they look so cheaply engineered it isn't funny. Most of them are from Daewoo [sp?], right? Ugh.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/

In particular, vehicles like the Viva look like they've jumped out from the mid-90s. What has happened to car design?

[QatzelOk]

What has happened to car design?

A lot.

The environment happened to car design. Not many people look at cars with the same sense of unbridled enthusiasm that they did 40 years ago.

Baudrillard and PoMo happened to car design. Most of what was labeled "beautiful design" was a product of advertising and socially constructed status.

Death happened to car design. Europe is first to have all their cars required to meet pedestrian-impact standards. So in the near future, all cars will look like this:

[Adrien]

maybe the new Epica - which looks like a clone of the Toyota Aurion, (and a number of concept cars including the Efigy) every other vehicle Holden has right now (especially the 'Passenger Car' range is an absolutely disgusting piece of crap. Seriously, these are some of the ugliest cars on offer right now, and they look so cheaply engineered it isn't funny. Most of them are from Daewoo [sp?], right? Ugh.

You got the problem right, the Holden range is now made mainly of Korean cars! The Barina, Captiva, Viva and Epica are cheap Daewoos in Europe (or should I say Chevrolet, but they changed the badge and not the range) , kind of breaks the mystique of the Holden name.. Even if they try to market the Epica as a sporty sedan. Yikes.

What has happened to car design?

Bah, you say that because you're fed with Korean cars down under! Take a look at the European brands right now, be they French (Peugeot 407, Citroen C4, C6), Italian (Alfa 159, Fiat Grande Punto, Lancia Thesis) or German (Bimmers, Mercedes), they have all gone wild.

You must have all of these in Australia, though maybe not Alfas and Lancias, but really keep hope!

Oh, and Ford pwns Holden. It had to be said.

[Attica]

Have you driven a new Caprice, Adrien? No? Then shuddup about Ford V Holden

--

Hmm, it's unfortunate that we get this junk. Really it is. We do have BMW, Mercs, VWs and all the rest, they just cost a lot more. The new C4s are rather nice, as is the Jetta, oh and the new 3 Series I'm also a fan of...

[Notorious B.i.G.]

Attica, I share your pain too.
Though I am a Ford man, the way that Holden has been going in recent years with switching from European sourced cars to Daewoo sourced cars is shocking.

Everything bar the new VE in the Holden range looks shithouse. Even the new Epica is just a cheap Daewoo which is going to undercut the Commodore by being a cheap 4 cyl family car. Much the same as the new Camry. Being built in Korea too it will probably be cheaper then the Camry/Aurion and Magna/380.

Your question shouldn't be what happened to car design, but what happened to the Australian car market and Australian car design?

The older Holden's (Barina, Astra and Vectra) were sourced from Europe from Opel/Vauxhal. Holden/GM have now started sourcing their replacements from Daewoo because they are cheaper and can make more money of them. Two reasons for doing this, the Australian car market is being flooded by cheap small Asian built cars (i.e. Mazda 3's and Carolla's) secondly Holden (and Ford) are loosing ground, sales and money on the Australian built and designed cars. Sourcing piss poor Daewoos and selling them in Australia as Holden’s will help to make up for the rapidly diminishing Australian built car market.

It's quite interesting that car design in Australia hasn't died. The all new VE commodore is a good exaple of Aussie car design, and the fact that the design team at Fishermans Bend helped to design the new Camaro shows that our designers are world renowned. Also things are looking good in the fact that they are designing a new Ford for mid 2008 release.

What really needs to happen though is for the Federal government to remove protection on Australian built cars. To this give Ford and Holden a slab of money to design new fuel efficient and hybrid Commodores and Falcons. With tougher competition this way Ford and Holden will be forced to design and produce new and innovative economical family sedans in Australia, but with help from the Government to give em a chance. Holden and Ford need to move out of the 1970's in terms of inside car design. Deregulate the market and give them cash and time to design new good Aussie cars I reckon Ford/Holden will swim rather then sink.

[Adrien]

Sounds like a pinpoint analysis of the situation!

If I may contribute, from here it looks like Holden is a "cas d'école" of the way General Motors conceives corporatism, ie dilluting the substance of their different brands in order to make money. Always more money.

I mean not only do they inject Daewoo into Holden, but they also take the Holden substance to dillute it in Pontiac with the Monaro/GTO but also with the Commodore/G8 next year. It's positively stupid. And they do it all the time! They put the Chevrolet badge on the Daewoo line-up here, and it's completely senseless. They took a Saab 9-3, put a Cadillac grille on it and tried to sell it in Europe to the customers of the 9-3!

People can attack Ford as much as they want, but Ford does know how to manage the different identities of the group. Well, maybe not Mercury, but if you look at it Mazda, Ford Europe, Ford Australia, Jaguar and Volvo have very definite roles, identities, styles, etc.

[Notorious B.i.G.]

People can attack Ford as much as they want, but Ford does know how to manage the different identities of the group. Well, maybe not Mercury, but if you look at it Mazda, Ford Europe, Ford Australia, Jaguar and Volvo have very definite roles, identities, styles, etc.

I agree whole hartedly with that, but it's a shame that GM can turn a profit with its organisational structure and Ford has a 12 or more billion dollar loss.

Those bastards!

But it's your comments about injection, substance and dillution that hit GM/Holden right on the head.

They took a Saab 9-3, put a Cadillac grille on it and tried to sell it in Europe to the customers of the 9-3!

I can't quote any figures, but it wouldn't suprise me if they sold that Caddillac. I know alot of people out there who don't like SAAB just because it is Saab. But they would think 'oohh shiney new Caddy'.

It would be interesting to see what the sales are like, and who their traget buyers are. Otherwise it's just so STPUID!

[Adrien]

I agree whole hartedly with that, but it's a shame that GM can turn a profit with its organisational structure and Ford has a 12 or more billion dollar loss.

Yes, there really is no justice in this world. I mean, there has to be a reason somewhere since accounting is just mathematics, but still it's a shame for the car industry to see that immoral behaviours are successful.. We'll wake up one day and all drive Chevy-Daewoos and Dacias.



Maybe Ford invested too much and in the wrong places?

Those bastards!

Word, my friend. Word.

It would be interesting to see what the sales are like, and who their traget buyers are. Otherwise it's just so STUPID!

That's the problem, it's not selling well at all. I found some figures: between April and May of last year (at the release of the car in Europe), 400 units were sold across the continent. At that pace, stabilized annual sales should be at around 1500 units, when Bob Lutz predicted between 7000 and 10 000 units sold per year. Also, in France, 68 units were sold for the period going from the launch of the car to the end of 2006.

Add to that that it was quite denigrated by the press for its lack of personality and not very competitive prices. And next year they will release the wagon version, which is a copy of the Saab 93 Sport-Hatch in less stylish. It's not gonna help the blurry image of the car..

For the customers, they're appealing to those who buy C-class, 3-series, Jaguar X-type, Lexus IS-200 etc. But these cars have a lot more personnality, probably better engines. And when you want to pay 30 000 euros for your car that's probably what you're looking for!


On a side note have you seen the new Mondeo? That's some wicked design. Maybe they'll bring it back to Australia?

[Notorious B.i.G.]

On a side note have you seen the new Mondeo? That's some wicked design. Maybe they'll bring it back to Australia?

Haven't seen it. Heard rumors that it may came back to Australia, but I doubt it. The Ford Falcon isn't selling to well here in Aus at the moment, sales are slipping every month and with a new Falcon due out in mid 2008(?) or start of 2009 they wont want to take any chances in having the that market bottom out any further. Importing Mondeo's will do that, as people will switch from the ageing BA Falcon to a more 'european' stylied, safer and more fule efficent car.

[Adrien]

There it is. Totally inspired from the Iosis concept-car you might have seen like, a year or two ago. Indeed, seen like that it does make sense not to import it. That's a shame the Falcon isn't selling, try to make it left-hand drive and send it over to us to pwn the bimmers!

[Adrien]

Okay, double-posts are bad, but a new evidence has to be added to the case against General Motors' way to manage its brands. Courtesy of Jalopnik.com , the new twin-sister of the Caprice..



.. the GM-Daewoo L4X.

[Attica]

Hang on, what have they changed? That looks really cheap compared to the Holden Caprice.

[Adrien]

Hang on, what have they changed? That looks really cheap compared to the Holden Caprice.

It does look cheap, but then again it's a Daewoo and it's probably meant to be sold for less. As to what they've changed, well it's again GM's favourite game of "Find the 7 differences" I'm afraid. Badge engineering at its best.. Oh, but wait, there's more: the new Buick Park Avenue for the Chinese market!



This poor Caprice is getting gang-raped.

[Klontius Pilatus]

Holden. A lifetime of crap?

[uglygoat]

Maybe Ford invested too much and in the wrong places?

suv's and big trucks, mostly in north america. ford put too many (almost all) of their marlbles in those lines, and are paying for it now. they also abandoned tried and true models and replaced them with the 500 in the states. it flopped, and they are renaming it the 'taurus'.

it's interesting to see you guys talk about the european/australian and asian end of the big motor companies.