Where is the Anti-Globalisation Movement? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

As either the transitional stage to communism or legitimate socio-economic ends in its own right.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#1671078
Where is the movement when it could try to mobilise people and provide an alternative to the government-led solutions of fixing up the economy? Why are we doing so little now after having done quite a bit when the economy was on a better course? What's preventing or constraining the movement?
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1671438
I'll have to cite sp!ked again...

Mick Hume
I don’t predict a riot
The passivity of public reactions to the financial turmoil is a symptom of the other crisis: of democratic politics.

These can seem like surreal times, when little is as it appears. Walking through a sunny London at lunchtime last Friday, you would never have guessed it was mid-October. And to judge by the sunny disposition of many working people, you might also have been hard pressed to guess that we were in the middle of a financial crisis which even business papers have described as ‘the end of liberal capitalism’.


The London crowds were going about their business as normal, the pubs and restaurants were as packed as on any other Friday. People walking to and from work would take a quick glance at the newspaper billboards screaming about ‘Blind panic as shares crash’, then go back to their decidedly non-panicky chatting and texting. It was as if the crisis was happening in some other city, far away.

At lunch, I was talking to an old friend about the apparent absence of public displays of anger or outrage at the financial meltdown and government bailout of the banks. He said he had recently watched again Gangs of New York, Martin Scorsese’s dramatised version of events leading up to the New York draft riots of the 1860s, in which poor citizens of the city pulled the wealthy from their big houses ‘and then pulled them apart’. There were no signs of any such anti-rich riots in sunny London.

Instead all that happened on Friday was that the Socialist Worker Student Society got a couple of hundred students to play dodge with the police and march through a ‘glitzy shopping mall’ in the City of London, shouting: ‘No bail! Send the bankers to jail!’ There were no arrests. On Monday, as share prices rose again, there was another small left-wing protest in the City against ‘taxpayers’ money being plunged into the banks and trans-national finance institutions’. Few taxpayers took part.

Apart from these almost universally-ignored efforts, the only visible signs of public disquiet have been predictable postings about ‘fat cats’ on those ‘have your say’ online discussion boards, and invitations to join websites mocking the agonies of investment bankers. It hardly amounts to an uprising, or even an argument.

No doubt the relative lack of reaction is partly because the economic consequences of the crisis have yet to affect most people. But more importantly, even if and when it does hit home, what could they do about it? This strange and transient state of affairs, the apparent disconnection between the economic crisis and everyday life, is more a symptom of another crisis: the crisis of democratic politics.

One thing that clearly distinguishes this financial disruption from earlier capitalist crises is the complete absence of any political alternatives. Unlike in the 1930s or 1970s, there is no Soviet Union or parties of Western state socialism to offer even the illusion of an alternative to capitalism. Society is widely described as facing a crisis, a crossroads, yet there is no serious debate about which road to take into a different future. The Conservative opposition in the UK has managed the considerable achievement of looking even more paralysed than the government. Meanwhile, we are warned by the authorities that this is ‘no time’ for idle talk, as if we were facing a foreign invasion. But if now is not the time to raise questions about the direction of our society, when is?



In fact the problem goes further than an absence of alternatives. There is no longer even a ruling political ideology against which to formulate one. An alternative to what? There is nothing political about the Labour government’s multi billion pound bailout of the banking system. This is not nationalisation as an act of ‘state socialism’, unless you seriously believe that President George W Bush has become the world’s leading socialist. Instead Bush and Gordon Brown are simply adapting the non-political managerialism of government over the past decade to firefighting in a crisis, trying to keep as much of the existing financial structures standing as possible. Despite his token gestures about squeezing bankers’ bonuses, prime minister Brown’s political vision does not extend further than the next day’s share prices or opinion poll ratings.

Brown has sought to signal that he is above politics by comparing himself to Winston Churchill as a strong national leader in an emergency. Many pundits seem to agree, announcing that the crisis and the counter-crisis measures have restored the authority of Brown and the New Labour government. These responses only serve to confirm the distance between the world occupied by the political class and the one where most people live. An unpopular government facing the prospect of a recession, alongside tax rises and/or public spending cuts to fund its financial rescue package, has little to feel smug about.

But more importantly, what does it matter to people in the non-political world whether Brown survives or not? The responses to the crisis to date have demonstrated that the masses have effectively been disenfranchised, left with no political voice or vision, milling past billboards announcing what our rulers are doing in our name. When the recessionary pressures hit more people harder they will certainly react. In the absence of any political debate, however, those reactions are likely to be conservative and narrowly fatalistic. It is perfectly rational for people to refuse to buy houses or anything else or to invest their hard-earned money in such uncertain times. But hiding our lives under the mattress is no alternative either.

The crisis of democratic politics has reduced people to mere spectators at a potential turning point for their own societies. At best we can shout at fat cats on the television or the internet – an even more passive and pointless display of public anger than fans booing England footballers. The description of disgruntled citizens as ‘taxpayers’ – common to both right- and left-wing protesters today – captures the view of people as mere fee-paying passengers on the ship of state, rather than active political agents. There seems little prospect of any old-fashioned eat-the-rich riot – though even such a mindless outburst might look meaningful compared to what’s not happening today.

People can vote for or against Brown, and they can vote with their feet or their wallets in the financial crisis. But until we find a way to address the crisis of democratic politics, they will still have no choice.


Source
User avatar
By Eauz
#1671523
HoniSoit wrote:Where is the movement when it could try to mobilise people and provide an alternative to the government-led solutions of fixing up the economy?
They are in places like India, Nepal, South America & the Middle-East (no matter how reactionary they might be). In the West, the movement has been hijacked by students. In addition, a lot of people who are of working-class and middle-class don't have the connections or knowledge of a group that would fight for progressive policies (vicious circle). In addition, when I was working a job while I went to school, there were movements that I knew about, however, I had to work during the time when they had protests (weekends or weekday afternoons). Equally enough, it's tough for people who still can feel they are living a fairly reasonable life-style, aren't going to gain the desire to revolt, others are alienated by the capitalist system, however, don't know of any movements or just don't care.

The answers can be find close to home, if you ask yourself the same questions. Myself? Massive failure on my part, since I haven't attempted to even make much of any connection. Part of it is that I have no time, but I can't blame it on that alone, since I must have motivation and desire to be part of such a movement. I guess my best option at this moment would be to join the Communist Party of Canada.
User avatar
By Eauz
#1671546
Vera Politica wrote:NOOOOO Eauz, don't do it!
Then give me an alternative. And don't give me this nonsense about Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada. I spoke with then about writing for them and they pretty much said that they want didn't want any writings from anyone, unless they were actually serious about writing and were a member for a certain period. Goodness, I can't imagine how I could prove that I'm serious about it, aside from actually writing for them. I did write a piece which has yet to be published and no word if it will ever be published.

Once again, another failure of the left to recruit people for their movement. So, I'm always open to options, where are they, Vera?

Edit: Plus, more factions within the left, since they label their movement Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. Really? What ever happened to just fighting for socialism? Now we have to fight for a specific form of it? Marxism is Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism, blahblahism, whatever. I've talked to you about this before, however, the vast number of our parties are stuck in the clouds of reductionism and have their arguments in the roots of follies.
User avatar
By GeneCosta
#1671558
The more I come into contact with social parties, the more I realize Autonimism may be more reasonable than I originally conceived.
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1671573
Edit: Plus, more factions within the left, since they label their movement Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. Really? What ever happened to just fighting for socialism? Now we have to fight for a specific form of it? Marxism is Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism, blahblahism, whatever. I've talked to you about this before, however, the vast number of our parties are stuck in the clouds of reductionism and have their arguments in the roots of follies.


This is what happens when there is over 80 years(or 50 if you like Mao) of ideological dogmatism. Syntheses are not developed on realistic terms - who we are, what we want, and what we need to do. When they are they are rather dogmatic and/or with the interests of the group's leadership at heart more than anything else.
User avatar
By HoniSoit
#1671713
I should have qualified my statement that I was talking about the Movement in the West.

In the West, the movement has been hijacked by students.


1) I think the movement is more diverse in its composition but sure there are lots of students.

2) I'm not sure what you meant by students hijacking the movement. If you are talking about the anti-globalisation movement in the West, there were always students; if you are referring to 'the' Movement, well - what do you do when the working-class and traditional communist parties are highly effective if not already simply co-opted.

Thanks Kiroff for the article. Though I don't think it adequately explained why there couldn't be an upsurge of movement: the anti-globalisation movement have been quite effective in organising and demonstrating - why not now?
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1671722
Lack of theoretical development on our part. You can only chant "down with the system" for so long until you realize that you don't have a sound plan to accomplish that.
User avatar
By Red Rebel
#1672436
I'll be speaking as a student but it comes down to people being apathetic. People aren't negatively affected by globalization on a mass scale in the developed world.

Eauz wrote:In the West, the movement has been hijacked by students.


Well there is no other major alternative, students are the only option with size and organization. The Democrats ( :lol: ) aren't an alternative. Various leftist parties don't have the size. Unions usually don't get invovled passed lobbying.
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1672504
Yeah no one gives a shit.

We need to fix that.

Before it's too late.

Red?
User avatar
By Eauz
#1672625
HoniSoit wrote:1) I think the movement is more diverse in its composition but sure there are lots of students.

2) I'm not sure what you meant by students hijacking the movement. If you are talking about the anti-globalisation movement in the West, there were always students; if you are referring to 'the' Movement, well - what do you do when the working-class and traditional communist parties are highly effective if not already simply co-opted.
I don't mean to put all students in the bad light, however, the vast number of students I met, who were of the left, were more interested in what grades they received, than any issue involving the development of an actual social movement. Sure, there are definetly some who did protest and started small groups, however, where are these people now? Now that they've got that stable job with good pay? Why do most of them end up giving up these dreams, if we are supposed to put faith in these same people to organise and develop social movements (as Red Rebel suggests)? We can't just constantly hope that those university students will be there to save the day. There has got to be something of more stability, since most university social movements are made up of a wide range of people, some of whom just join because their friend is there and really don't have an interest.

Kiroff wrote:This is what happens when there is over 80 years(or 50 if you like Mao) of ideological dogmatism. Syntheses are not developed on realistic terms - who we are, what we want, and what we need to do. When they are they are rather dogmatic and/or with the interests of the group's leadership at heart more than anything else.
I understand that old habits are hard to break, however, does it really help our cause that we have groups that support the way Mao brought about revolution or the way Stalin ruled? In abstract terms, Mao and Stalin had their success and failure, but this is 2008 and we are living in places like Europe, Canada and the U.S.A. It's time to knock down these little issues that constrain us from organising and concentrate on organising society towards a socialist movement. We can study Stalin, Lenin and Mao all we want and learn from them, however, using the same methods of the past are not going to succeed in bringing about revolutionary movements or social movements.
User avatar
By bayano
#1674586
We know what happened in the US: Bush, 911, Patriot Act, Iraq War.

Perhaps, by the end of Obama's administration, we will see the rise of it, just like the big growth of counter globalization movements in the United States at the end of Clinton.
User avatar
By Vera Politica
#1674632
Then give me an alternative. And don't give me this nonsense about Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada. I spoke with then about writing for them and they pretty much said that they want didn't want any writings from anyone, unless they were actually serious about writing and were a member for a certain period. Goodness, I can't imagine how I could prove that I'm serious about it, aside from actually writing for them. I did write a piece which has yet to be published and no word if it will ever be published.

Once again, another failure of the left to recruit people for their movement. So, I'm always open to options, where are they, Vera?


Well I never fronted the RCP (not to my knowledge), but I've been in contact with them aswell, and I received similar treatment, and I offered to translate their texts which have HORRIBLE translations.

Anyway. On the point of an 'alternative', there isn't one because there isn't a serious worker's movement. This is a key feature many organization haven't pinned as the kernel of their problems (besides organizational problems, etc). My advice, as it has always been, is to independently pursue serious studies in Marxism and anything you can relate to it - be it economics or philosophical movements such as structuralism... anything.
Marxism is perhaps on its way back up as an intellectual force but having anticipated this one can look,. in hindsight, to find the flaws which have kept Marx in the intellectual dungeons of overlooked history. I myself have been finding Althusser extremely interesting in analyzing the ideological structures of society, education being the primary one. I've always thought Marxism had much to offer across disciplines, and the problem is that many people simply make it a political issue, when Marxism is a vast intellectual one. Without this, the organizations are bound to fail.

But the CPC can hardly even be described as Marxist. It is liberal and perhaps social democratic at best. Its issue is with human rights and all the other left-petit bourgeois revisionist/reactionary movements: human rights, anti-globalization, labor rights, distributive justice and even advocacy of non-violence.
User avatar
By Eauz
#1675491
Vera Politica wrote:My advice, as it has always been, is to independently pursue serious studies in Marxism and anything you can relate to it - be it economics or philosophical movements such as structuralism... anything.
My problem with this point is that on the one hand, you hate organisations like the Communist Party of Canada, who are indeed reductionist liberals with their heads in the clouds of follies, however, you are quick to say that I want to be independent and part of my own interest and ideals. This is the base of why we see today so many splinter groups in the socialist camp. I'm not suggesting that you have to give up your perspective for the idiocy of the Communist Party of Canada, however, I think it is time for the socialist camp to grow up and realise that the point of socialism is to fight for the progressive development of socialism in society. The more we bicker and complain about the other party, the more idiotic we seem to people who might be interested in joining the movement and the less likely any organisation would appear, if another market collapse occurs. Where will the socialists be, the next time a worse collapse occurs? Are they just going to let the middle-class fall towards fascist philosophies? We must remember, nothing is inevitable and having a strong, progressive socialist organisation in the good and bad times is of great use to society. None of these actually exist though, and probably won't, come the next economic collapse.
User avatar
By Vera Politica
#1676941
I agree with you, Eauz. Sadly, I do see myself joining the CPC or something like that when I get fed up of all the socialist bickering.

On the other hand, I am not sure what to make of 'progressiveness' as you mentioned. In my mind progress is an empty concept, I read Foucault's Discipline and Punishment and was utterly astounded - I thoroughly enjoyed that book!
By Luxemburgs_Pastry_Chef
#1678178
Eauz wrote:We can study Stalin, Lenin and Mao all we want and learn from them, however, using the same methods of the past are not going to succeed in bringing about revolutionary movements or social movements.


I do agree with this - every single Marxist politician, though you may not agree with them and how they viewed the world, how they interpreted situations within a Marxist mode of thinking etc. are simply part of our heritage in one way or another, not to say that we are all responsible for the actions of the past. We must remember that revolutionary Leninism is a specific historical-cultural reaction to near feudal conditions, and that Stalinism was a reaction to the encirclement of potentially hostile forces pointing their weapons at the USSR. We would otherwise be as ahistorical as those who are arguing against us by citing these examples as "proofs" (such as obnoxiously saying "Stalin, socialism = fail! QED!") of the "failure" os socialism.
It would have to start from the ground up, for not dispelling the bogeyman myth of Marx as some prophet who worked on an irrational, rabble-rousing lexicon and mechanistic and determinist worldview, would be incredibly dangerous to us. This would propagate the besmerching we've received throughout the C20th. Marx defined capitalism in a reasonably correct and importantly, fundamentally way, defining its social shortcomings and likely outcomes for certain courses of action - and it has been the bourgeois hegemony of the C20th which has defined Marx on false grounds.

I don't see students as being dangerous to the movement, but affiliation in the trade unions, and removing the unions from the liberal AFL-CIO and the sycophantic TUC and other such country-specific bourgeoisie affiliated trade-union organisations.
User avatar
By smallpox
#1683701
I'll tell you what happened to these protesters - their standards of living went up, global trade proved itself to increase productivity and consumption and so people saw no reason to resist globalization and actually embraced it. Why haven't you?
If you look at the G77, they actually want MORE globalization and the G7 countries want LESS globalization in the Doha rounds. This is all being fought over the liberalization of the agricultural markets.
Just like the cotton spinners found new jobs and stopped protesting, the international businesses created more jobs, increased standards of living all around and incomes...
What's wrong with that?

On a side note, what in the blue hell can we learn from Mao? How to starve people and kill by the millions?

@FiveofSwords For background... According to […]

Quiz for 'educated' historians

Now...because I personally have read actual prima[…]

US Presidential election 2024 thread.

You aren't American, you don't get a vote in my go[…]

On Self Interest

@Wellsy But if we were to define "moral […]