[Red Star]

Red Star Note: All right denizens, the last three posts have been deleted as not only were they one-liners (which are only allowable if they contribute something in a succint fashion - which some one-liners earlier in the thread do not really either) but also not contrinuting anything of worth. Can we please stick to the topic and debate the points rather than the personalities?

[KurtFF8]

The purpose of the comparison was to expose your shit logic, not to suggest that homosexuality is identical to pedophilia.

I didn't say he was, I was just showing how it is a bad analogy.

Pedophilia: a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children

Right.

Kurt, you do realize that prehistoric man constantly engaged in such behavior?

Point?

What mental illness would that be?

If I'm not mistaken, it is generally agreed upon that it requires some sort of mental illness to be a pedophile, while used to be agreed that homosexuality was a disorder, that is no longer seen as the case pretty universally in the "scientific community".

Then you don't know the difference between the two terms, better look them up.

I do know the difference, I was just displaying a specific philosophical stance that posits that the mind is physical, it's actually pretty off topic, my bad.

Who is the victim in the example I provided?

12 Year olds aren't developed enough to make sexual choices like that, and thus a victim of a sexual crime, where as two consenting adults are not in the same situation.

Do you still think that just because something is a natural tendency of human behavior, that it should be free from discrimination among peers?

Not necessarily, but in this specific case I think that that sort of discrimination does much more harm than good (if it even does any good which I don't think it does).

But none of this has to do with why Marxists should or shouldn't be pro-gay rights.

[bayano]

getting back on topic

left socialism and marxism are liberatory ideologies, or should be, but they haven't always been liberatory in all ways.

firstly, we shouldnt make total generalizations about latin america. yes, in some respects it is more conservative and in other respects it is more leftist than North America or even Europe. dont start thinking that the Global North is somehow more 'enlightened' though. there have always been LGBTQs in latin america, and some indigenous communities venerate them. but it is North American protestant missionaries who are coming in and pushing a homophobic agenda. just as an example, though it's true that many urban marxists are more homophobic than they should be. but that is changing. and yes, its true, mainstream catholicism is partly to blame for these prejudices.

there are also large vegetarian and animal rights movements in many latin american countries, and, as with rich exploiter countries, they are a cross section of leftists and bourgeois liberals. also, (and i think unfortunately in some ways) hippy styles and beliefs have had their impact on latin american youth as well.

but i suggest that A) your teacher isn't necessarily a longtime socialist, and B) you (perhaps privately) offer your dissenting views to your teacher, or even call him out in class when he comes down on a gay or non-macho/feminine student.

but read some queer theory if you havent already. there are a lot of interesting ways to look at it, including that homophobia (and transphobia, etc) is, for many, an important component to sexism, which is a systemic oppression.

[Kasu]

Thanks.


Yeah, My teacher (in martial arts btw) doesn't really talk about his political views, he just constantly talks about Venezuela, greatly respects Hugo Chavez, and has mentioned socialism from an apparently supporting point of view. From what I've seen in documentaries, if you're not a supporter of socialist policies, you'd be one of those bourgeois white news anchors spewing out anti-chavez propaganda. He doesn't seem to be one of them..

[felipe_acbr]

You people really think South America is a jungle,don't you? Let me tell you something: it is not!

[Okonkwo]

You people really think South America is a jungle,don't you? Let me tell you something: it is not!

Where'd you get that impression? And who is supposed to be "you people"?

[felipe_acbr]

Where'd you get that impression? And who is supposed to be "you people"?

From here:

Quote:
Is this a common opinion in south America, or is this just an isolated case


It's quite common.

Latin American people in general are very socially conservative, and quite homophobic.

How could an entire continent be like that?? Ordinary people are politically conservative here, at least in Brazil. But, regarding homosexuality, I don't think south-americans in general are "quite homophobic". Again: i'm talking about Brazil. I don't know about the others, though I suppose they're not homophobic as well.
By "you people" I mean europeans and north-americans. Of course I know it's not all the europeans nor all the americans. I refer to american and european "people in general", like the smart guy said.
But now I'm starting to think that maybe they are right. Maybe it is a jungle... in a way... specially (or maybe, only) Brazil.


OBS: sorry about my english. I know it's terrible.

[felipe_acbr]

I forgot to explain something: I used the word "jungle" refering to the stereotype which links Brazil/South America to monkeys/jungle. I was not supposing you, or some of you, really think we live in a jungle, but that we are kind of uncivilized (does this word exist?), which, in fact, is not completely wrong.

Again: sorry about my english.

[Dave]

We Americans (and Canadians) don't think of South Americans as being monkeys living in the jungle (although we do think there are jungles in South America!). Argentinians are the ones calling Brazilians monkeys, not us. The group we might stereotype as monkeys would be Africans, but that's more common in Europe and than here.

[felipe_acbr]

We Americans (and Canadians) don't think of South Americans as being monkeys living in the jungle

Dave, friends of mine who have travelled to the US stated that there is a stereotype concerning Brazil. There is, for example, that Simpsons episode in Brazil, very funny, but a little bit exaggerated. It's comedy, I know, but my point is: it's based on something. I'm sure the most americans is opposed to this stereotype, but I still think it exists in America. And no problem with that, cause there are steoreotypes of USA in Brazil too... guess it's normal.

(although we do think there are jungles in South America!)

You got that right!

Argentinians are the ones calling Brazilians monkeys

Yeah, we are a little far from an integration, don't you think?

[Red Star]

Red Star Note: Let's move back to the topic, there are no monkeys anywhere.