[Cartertonian]

I'm sure you're right. 'Rip-off Britain', the tabloids call it.

When we returned to UK from a posting to Germany, it was very noticable that for many, many goods we were paying the same in GBP as we had been paying in Germany and Holland in Euros.

Robbing bastards!

[AnnoyingConservative]

I don't know, WB. Compared to the Garden of Eden, I'd say we were all dirt poor.

And once again, you are comparing apples to a fish. If you brought a man who lived in the Dark Ages to current time (aside from freaking out) He might think we'd all be rich. But that's because we are always making new things. If you bring someone in from the future to current time, he might think we were poor because we don't have things.

Though most likely, the Dark Age man would call us demons and the future man would understand that we have different things so we have to be compared by different rules.

[MB.]

When I lived in London for nine months I noticed two things: The beer was cheaper but everything else was twice as expensive. During my time there the economic collapse helped to flatten the prices, and eventually things did reach near parity, but the point was that before the crisis the pound was 2x the Canadian dollar and everything (except beer) cost twice as much.

Anyway, my point is that if you are typing this on a computer you are incredibly wealthy. You are so wealthy in fact that you should be ashamed that there are people all around the world who do not have the same luxuries you have.

[AnnoyingConservative]

Ya, WB, what is wrong with you. typing on that computer and using that AC and driving that car. You should be ashamed of YOURSELF! You should sell it all and live like people in Sudan.

In fact.. I dare you to. I dare you to throw your life away and live your life equal to Sudan. Do everything they do. If you can, move there and live like them. It's only fair.

[MB.]

The mistake you make is to assume that what I desire is to live like the people in sudan. In fact I desire the opposite: by reducing the concept of what it means to be wealthy to the lowest common denominator, I hope to encourage more people to realize how wealthy they are with what little they have. Those living in sudan can also be as rich as I am, but only if I am indeed rich. And I am only rich if those in my society share my belief that my standard of living is indeed the height of luxury.

I don't own a motor vehicle. I certainly do not own any property (besides my books, which I worked hard for and purchased, second hand, with my own funds), and everything that I 'own' otherwise was given to me by my family and my friends and I consider it borrowed. When I die I intend to bestow my meager belongings to the public library.

[AnnoyingConservative]

And the people of Sudan live a similar life. They work hard for the things they want. If a farmer in Sudan wants food, he tills the field and grows it. In America, unless you live on a farm, if you want food you need to work for it. Earn it or have someone give it though willing charity. That's the beauty of
it. Hard work gives you the things you want and in turn, your hard work enriches other people's lives.

Everyone has different ideas of what rich is. One man might fight his children a source of wealth. Another the screams and cheers of his fans. A CEO might find the feeling of power enriching, and a farmer might find watching his crop grow a bounty. I define my wealth as my ability to stand on my own two feet and have enough to make my friends and family happy. The better I can do that, the wealthier I am.

Though this is all philosophical, not economical. But you hopefully understand.

[MB.]

Though this is all philosophical, not economical.

Well, I think that philosophy and economics are closely united. I certainly agree with your sentiment that 'wealth' is to be found in righteous action, but what about those who seek nothing more than power, money, sex, drugs, fame, etc? These things that are shallow and do not benefit anyway, and are in fact detrimental to the society as a whole. Are they the trimmings of true wealth, or the comodified crutch of a society that has forgotten what wealth and justice and good works entail?

[AnnoyingConservative]

Talk to an Economist or a Philosopher. I'm just an Annoying Conservative.

[KPres]

Well, I think that philosophy and economics are closely united. I certainly agree with your sentiment that 'wealth' is to be found in righteous action, but what about those who seek nothing more than power, money, sex, drugs, fame, etc? These things that are shallow and do not benefit anyway, and are in fact detrimental to the society as a whole. Are they the trimmings of true wealth, or the comodified crutch of a society that has forgotten what wealth and justice and good works entail?

OK. I've forgotten. Why don't you tell me what wealth and justice and good works entail?

[CounterChaos]

It all comes down to standard of living, how well you can manage your finances and how gullible you are in this capitalistic nightmare. The creed of capitalism: A fool is born everyday.

[MB.]

Why don't you tell me what wealth and justice and good works entail?

The respect of your fellow man.

[proud communist]

To original post: Well obviously the phrase "things have to get bad before they get good" and all that come into play because the rising gap between the rich and the poor is becoming more and more obvious to workers and harder and harder to cover up. We have been slowly but surely entering a stage of socialism that fits the needs of society more than the needs of the "billionaires" and such. part of that obviously is the idea of taxing the rich more than the poor and because of that, a progressive tax has been becoming more and more popular.