[Syph]

I have lived in the liberal era my entire life and socialism has never seemed weaker. I've seen every generation of politicians pander to the free market elites created by Thatcher. I see socialists ridiculed, diluted and corrupted in pursuit of the favour of the bankers et al. This brand of dangerous liberalism empowers only the rich and they laugh at the OWS movement and protests against their corruption of society. No socialist will enter public office on their watch. Where are the Tony Benns in the era of Tony Blairs?

Has liberalism committed the perfect murder?

[Dagoth Ur]

It's been the age of liberalism for like 150 years. Revolution is necessary precisely because of liberalism.

I'm not a Maoist but Mao's Combat Liberalism should help you out.

[Paradigm]

Liberalism has kept socialism at bay for most of the past century, but now liberalism itself is dying, and people are starting to give socialism another look. This is essentially the premise behind Chris Hedges' book, Death of the Liberal Class. Liberals have long been the best assets to capitalism by seeking to mitigate its abuses and bring about reforms that helped pacify the working class, while sidelining and marginalizing the radical left. But over time their reforms posed too big a barrier to the capital accumulation, and so neoliberal ideology came to the forefront and brought globalization as well as deregulation of the financial sector, removing as many barriers to capital accumulation as possible. Traditional liberal institutions had to adapt to the new era of corporate dominance, and thus the liberal class has largely been vanquished. I think as more and more liberals in the Occupy movement encounter police brutality, we'll see a more large-scale radicalization as the last vestiges of liberalism die out.

[Negotiator]

I dont believe that that even CAN possibly happen.

Liberalism needs socialism, and vice versa. And both need democracy.

Either all these three things go down, or none of them.

[Daktoria]

Liberalism has kept socialism at bay for most of the past century, but now liberalism itself is dying, and people are starting to give socialism another look. This is essentially the premise behind Chris Hedges' book, Death of the Liberal Class. Liberals have long been the best assets to capitalism by seeking to mitigate its abuses and bring about reforms that helped pacify the working class, while sidelining and marginalizing the radical left. But over time their reforms posed too big a barrier to the capital accumulation, and so neoliberal ideology came to the forefront and brought globalization as well as deregulation of the financial sector, removing as many barriers to capital accumulation as possible. Traditional liberal institutions had to adapt to the new era of corporate dominance, and thus the liberal class has largely been vanquished. I think as more and more liberals in the Occupy movement encounter police brutality, we'll see a more large-scale radicalization as the last vestiges of liberalism die out.

I actually agree with this because OWS is an incredibly provocative movement that has no consideration towards civility. The movement is deliberately preying upon professionalism and pragmatism in a sense of permanent revolution.

That said, to understand the shift towards progressive reforms, you have to understand consumerism because consumerism is what catalyzed the transition from financial towards cultural capitalism. It's only under cultural capitalism that social mobility can become constrained because cultural capitalism creates the avant-garde/pop culture sandwich effect which inhibits meritocracy by demanding meritocrats become more conscientious towards social awkwardness.

It's only after meritocracy becomes inhibited enough that aristocrats can lie over who to blame and formulate social revolution. I've actually had conversations with OWS members (while talking about how lucky they are over how it hasn't snowed so far) over why they've joined OWS. Lots of people join OWS because it targets the path of least resistance. They WANT to support free markets, but they can't assimilate into the existing mode of production, so they're willing to tear it down out of desperation.

Some of them will even admit that they know the social ravens of OWS are the people who alienated them, but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Donna]

The best part about OWS is that it can't dissipate into recuperated alternative lifestyles. Unlike the New Left, it's more of an escape than an entry. More of a shit than a fuck.

Has liberalism committed the perfect murder?

It committed an extremely messy murder-suicide. It took the doctrine of consumerism and bourgeois individualism to the heights of China's Cultural Revolution in an effort to destroy the workers' movement. The kind of momentum that was built up to compete with Communism was always too big to quietly go away.

[Wolfman]

The best part about OWS is that it can't dissipate into recuperated alternative lifestyles.

So, that I'm seeing OWS doing exactly that is, what, a product of the mass media conspiracy to install Ron Paul as God-King so that he can order the purging of all the Left Wing Babies?

[Metal Gear]

Revleft served as a perfect example of this. On that community, you get banned for arguing that Marxist theory should take priority over racial grievances and other modern liberal causes.

Revisionism is the enemy of socialism.

[Donna]

So, that I'm seeing OWS doing exactly that is, what, a product of the mass media conspiracy to install Ron Paul as God-King so that he can order the purging of all the Left Wing Babies?

How has OWS been recuperated?

[Wolfman]

The movement is dead in every way that matters, without having accomplished a thing.

[Donna]

That is very different from recuperation.

[Wolfman]

Sorry, misread what you originally said. Regardless, the movement is dead and accomplished nothing.

[Donna]

What kind of strategies would you recommend for civil society?

[Wolfman]

Step one: Identify the problem, how it is a problem, how to fix it, and why your solution is not retarded.
Step two: Do anything even remotely productive. Protesting, is not productive, unless you manage to mobilize the majority of the population. Which you wont. So, do ANY thing else
Step three: ?
Step four: Profit.

Sorry, I forgot what I was talking about.

[Donna]

Step one: Identify the problem, how it is a problem, how to fix it, and why your solution is not retarded.

This is problematic because the act of both identifying the problem and providing a solution are both ideological acts that are not estranged from the Left-Right pendulum. Not everyone agrees what the problem is and subsequently 'solutions' are equally bit as contentious.

[Wolfman]

If you cannot identify a problem, you will never accomplish anything.

[Donna]

It's entirely possible to identify the problem. However, it makes no difference whether your analysis is correct or not, it will be opposed by others explicitly for ideological reasons. Economy is political, politics is war.

[Wolfman]

So, the best thing to do is to do nothing and wait for everything to magically fix itself?

[Donna]

I'm not sure you mean by the "best thing to do". Different people have different stakes/interests in this crisis.

[Wolfman]

You seem to think that nothing can be done, so nothing should be done, so the only thing to do is sit on our hands waiting until the magic of communism comes and fixes the world! You people are just as diluted as Libertarians.