[skinster]

As far as I can tell, Ms. Gaines was not attacked. The only evidence is her claims. Since she has found a way to personally profit from such claims, she has direct financial incentive to lie.

She was chased away and needed security and your TRA mates threatened to "fuck her up" along the way and then weirdly demanded ransoms to let her get out (a video of that is attached in the article you shared). But this is all okay to people like you, who expect others BE KIND when doing the opposite if someone disagrees with your delusional beliefs, even if those people are women directly attacked with the invasion of men in their sports.

Even some trannies opposed this attack but people like you remain as delusional to the optics on stuff as you are to what sex people belong to.

[Pants-of-dog]

She was chased away

She ran away.

And was chased.

I do not know if she was chased away.

The protest occurred after her speech. She was probably already leaving when she saw the protest. It is not clear why she chose to start running.

and needed security

Yes, most people advocating discrimination tend to want security at their speeches.

and your TRA mates threatened to "fuck her up" along the way and then weirdly demanded ransoms to let her get out (a video of that is attached in the article you shared).

If the argument has now changed to “some people said stupid things” , I am going to move on.

But this is all okay to people like you, who expect others BE KIND when doing the opposite if someone disagrees with your delusional beliefs, even if those people are women directly attacked with the invasion of men in their sports.

Even some trannies opposed this attack but people like you remain as delusional to the optics on stuff like this as you are to what sex people belong to.

Personal attacks, Boring. Ignored.

Now, since you seem comfortable with the censorship mentioned in the OP, I will assume that you also believe it is justified, despite the evidence presented showing that Rep. Zephyr was factually correct.

[Godstud]

Yes, most people advocating discrimination tend to want security at their speeches.

So advocating for women's rights is discrimination? Advocating for fairness in women's sports is discrimination? Not wanting biological males to compete in women's sport is discrimination? You're as bad as those trans activists who threaten people with death when they don't agree with their delusions, or show how ridiculous "identifying" as something you are not, actually is.

This is trans activists trying to censor people, but hypocrisy is part and parcel of their ideology.


Former college swimmer says she was assaulted at an event opposing the inclusion of trans women in women’s sports
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/07/us/f ... index.html

Caitlyn Jenner steps out on coffee run in Malibu after blasting trans activists as 'domestic terrorists' for 'attacking' outspoken swimmer Riley Gaines
Jenner blasted the assailants for giving a bad name to the transgender community, referring to them as 'terrorists.'

'I think it's disgusting and it's so bad. It's such bad publicity for the trans community, There are so many good people out there. But I call this the 'Radical Rainbow Mafia.' They are left-wing activists. They are domestic terrorists,' Jenner said.

The former Olympic star supports transgender rights and 'fairness' but has openly supported banning those born as males from women's sports.

Jenner later added that the US will kill female leagues if officials allow trans females that were born male to compete.

She specifically pinpointed President Joe Biden for trying to 'erase women' while insisting she is for fairness and not 'equality.'

'Joe Biden is trying to erase women. He's trying to erase women in sports because if he gets through what he's trying to get through, it'll be the end of women in sports. And that's a shame because women's sports have come so far in this country and Joe Biden is trying to kill it,' Jenner said.

'I mean, we're trying to do everything to make women's sports better and fair because this is about fairness. I'm about fairness, not equality... not equity.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... ttack.html

I am not going to argue with you any further because facts speak for themselves, and I demonstrated how you were incorrect, but you can't take the 'L'. It'll hurt your identity, and standing, as a trans activist, I guess.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Godstud

Please address my previous post about Ms. Gaines. Thanks.

As for your post about trans athletes, please note that efforts to ban trans athletes have been used to prevent women from participating in sports.

[skinster]

"Transwomen" are men.

[Pants-of-dog]

@skinster

Do you support the traditional policies and tests used on women to determine their eligibility for women’s athletics?

[Saeko]

Facts are not fallacies. Words have meanings and your mealy-mouthed talk is just deflecting from facts.

What facts? It is your argument from dictionary definition that is fallacious:

"The appeal to definition (also known as the argument from dictionary) is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone’s argument is based, in a problematic manner, on the definition of a certain term as it appears in a dictionary or a similar source.

The main problem with such arguments is that dictionaries are descriptive in nature, rather than prescriptive, meaning that they attempt to describe how people use the language, rather than instruct them how to do so in a definitive manner.

Accordingly, dictionary definitions don’t always reflect the meaning of words as they’re used by people in reality. This can happen for various reasons, such as that the dictionary definition doesn’t list all the connotations of a word, or that the dictionary definition doesn’t capture the new meaning of a word that has been recently turned into slang.

Furthermore, another notable problem with appeals to definition is that different dictionaries can list different definitions for a given term, and even a single dictionary can have multiple definitions for the same term.

Accordingly, it’s generally fallacious to claim that any single definition is the right one. Furthermore, in many cases, such claims involve fallacious cherry-picking, where people pick the definition that best supports their stance out of the ones available to them, while ignoring others.

Because the appeal to definition is problematic, and because this fallacy is frequently used in discussions on various topics, it’s important to understand it. As such, in the following article you will learn more about the appeal to definition, and see how you can respond to people who use it."

https://effectiviology.com/appeal-to-definition/

That's a belief, not a fact.

Then it is also merely a "belief" that you are a man.

I never said otherwise. Some people have 1 leg but are considered human, despite humans generally having 2.

Similarly, some women have one penis but are considered women, despite women generally having zero.

No. That's a lie. Humans are generally born with 2 legs and two arms, barring some calamity or illness.

That's what it means for there to be a spectrum.

Again, you're dealing with beliefs. I am dealing with facts. I can understand someone feeling a certain way, but that does not make it a reality.

You can insist that your beliefs are factual until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that since your arguments for your beliefs are garbage, there is no reason to accept your beliefs as facts.

@skinster Sex is immutable. It is not open to change. It resides in every single cell of our body and physical ambiguity over less than 1% of the population does not dictate the rule.

Sex is not the same thing as gender.

Both Godstud and Zephyr are men and only the former is correct when it comes to this issue/reality.

Zephyr is a woman.

And nobody gets to decide on who is a woman, she either is one or is not.

I am glad that we agree that nobody gets to say that Zephyr is not a woman.

[Godstud]

Then it is also merely a "belief" that you are a man.

I am a man. This is a biological fact. If I ask a doctor what I am, he'll tell me that I am an adult male(man). If you mean to insinuate something, then I think your argument is too weak.

Similarly, some women have one penis but are considered women, despite women generally having zero.

A woman does not have a penis. This is biological fact. You quoting the extreme exception, is not an argument.

That's what it means for there to be a spectrum.

There is no "spectrum" for numbers of arms or legs or sex. When you are born, they write your sex on your birth certificate and it's either male or female.

Sex is not the same thing as gender.

Yes, but you keep on confusing the two. Sex is fact. Gender is "belief". I can "identify" as a black woman. Reality, however, will not be kind to me at this level of delusion.

I am glad that we agree that nobody gets to say that Zephyr is not a woman.

If Zooey Zephyr has male genitalia, hormones and genetic makeup, then "she" is still a man( technically). She is not a woman but a TRANS-woman. She would have to have born with the genetic makeup of a woman for her to be a woman. I hope that cleared up your confusion.

If a male were to dress as a woman, act like a woman, and claim to be a woman, they would still not be a woman. They would be a trans-woman.

As for your post about trans athletes, please note that efforts to ban trans athletes have been used to prevent women from participating in sports.

No. They have not. Now you are resorting to lies. pathetic.

I addressed your lack of argument regarding Riley Gaines, already.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Godstud

Tell that to women with certain naturally high hormone levels.

[Godstud]

@Pants-of-dog That is the exception. Again, you and others are incapable of making a rational argument, without resorting to "what ifs" or the rare instances.

Those women with high hormone levels likely have vaginas and other female indicators, as well. Stop making up fantasy scenarios to support your ideology.

[Fasces]

Caster Semenya, the 2x Olympic Gold medalist, who is banned from participating in woman's track as of 2019, is hardly a 'fantasy scenario'.

[Godstud]

Caster Semenya is indeed the exception, @Fasces. That said, there is a difference between elevated levels of testosterone occurring naturally. I'd say this ban is unjustified, as she is a biological woman. It's quite obvious that she was, and always has been, a woman.

[Fasces]

As long as we accept its not a 'fantasy scenario' - just like we accept that your cited study compared trans to general population.

she is a biological woman. It's quite obvious that she was, and always has been, a woman.

She has a Y chromosome. She has a vagina. She is intersex, assigned female at birth.

[Godstud]

Most of what has been said is "fantasy". Trying to call the rare exceptions the rule is simply stupid.

Intersex is a very rare thing, @Fasces.

Here’s what we do know: If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.
https://isna.org/faq/frequency/

I have a friend whose daughter is intersex. You wouldn't know it by looking at her, of course. Her chromosomes are not visible.

[skinster]

"Intersex" people* are still male and female and their conditions related to sexual development are sex-specific.

*They don't like being called "intersex people" by the way, nor how trans activist lunatics use their condition to prop up their cult.

Then it is also merely a "belief" that you are a man.

Godstud being a bloke is a biological fact.

Similarly, some women have one penis but are considered women, despite women generally having zero.

Women don't have penises.

You can insist that your beliefs are factual until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that since your arguments for your beliefs are garbage, there is no reason to accept your beliefs as facts.

It is you with the beliefs, you that are part of a cult that believe people can be the opposite of what they are.

Sex is not the same thing as gender.

Sex is a biological reality and gender is made-up bullshit which was initially used in place of 'sex' but then turned into made-up-bullshit identities like "non-binary" and "genderqueer", mostly used by spicy straights in place of a personality they clearly lack.

Zephyr is a woman.

You are delusional. Zephyr is male and will always be male, despite how much unnecessary surgery or medication he takes.

I am glad that we agree that nobody gets to say that Zephyr is not a woman.

I just said he isn't a woman. But what you're responding to is me stating people don't get to "decide" what they are, be it male or female. They simply are. We don't get to choose. Doctors don't "assign" sexes. That's horseshit.

She is intersex, assigned female at birth.

Nobody is "assigned" their sex at birth. You lot are mental.

[Pants-of-dog]

If you want to argue that women with vaginas who have lived their whole lives as women and are now being excluded from sports because of anti trans policies (as I claimed) are being excluded because they are rare, that is true.

But it is happening.

—————-

Well, this thread is already at the point where we are simply repeating science to naysayers who have no argument. None of my opponents have written anything that has provided me with new information.

What this has shown me is that western liberal conservatives, centrists, and even self styled progressives and leftists will have no problem ignoring civil rights violations if it aligns with their ideology.

[wat0n]

Caster Semenya, the 2x Olympic Gold medalist, who is banned from participating in woman's track as of 2019, is hardly a 'fantasy scenario'.

Well, under the definition of sex from the Institute of Medicine I posted earlier, Semeneya would count as male.

Has XY chromosomes, natural male testosterone levels, etc but a specific genetic condition that makes sex assignment at birth using traditional methods difficult.

I wonder if sooner or later, karyotype testing will become standard at birth, even if it may be expensive for some health systems right now, precisely to avoid these cases.

[skinster]

we are simply repeating science to naysayers

There is nothing scientific about your position. Biology is something you pretend isn't a thing or is something open to change, when it clearly is not

What this has shown me is that western liberal conservatives, centrists, and even self styled progressives and leftists will have no problem ignoring civil rights violations if it aligns with their ideology.

I'm not a "progressive" or a "leftist" and we don't believe in delusional thinking like when men say they are women because they identify with that, despite what we can see with our own eyes. That belief is up there with religious beliefs. And your movement is not about civil rights, it's about trampling on women's rights; the dominant class (males) does not get to opt into the oppressed class (females) and then claim they're fighting for civil rights, which at this point amounts to "self-id" nonsense and medicating+mutilating minors. That's never happened in history.

[Pants-of-dog]

@skinster

In this thread, you are on the side of the conservatives who are censoring someone for supporting life saving medical access for minors.

If you do not support censorship, restricting medical care, and increased suicide rates for minors, I suggest you clarify that.

[skinster]

In this thread, you are on the side of the conservatives who are censoring someone for supporting life saving medical access for minors.

Minors should not be unnecessarily medicated or mutilated and saying so doesn't make me a conservative. The conservatism comes from your ilk who think wearing dresses and make-up makes men women, or sissies, as conservative men used to call them. Now the autogynaphiles you defend call themselves sissies (google: sissy hipno porn)

If you do not support censorship, restricting medical care, and increased suicide rates for minors, I suggest you clarify that.

It is people like you who support censorship and make up bullshit like "misgendering people", who support attacks / the shutting down of young female athletes for speaking about men invading and destroying their sports, etc.