[QatzelOk]

More houses in the US than in Europe are made of wood because wood and land is more abundant in the US.

Straw is more abundant than brick everywhere on earth. And I mean that allegorically. That cheap construction is more available anywhere than really good construction.

Working harder - if you truly believe in a work ethic that is universal - involves thinking about collective behavior, and not just riding on common misperceptions exploited by salesmen's pitches. Doing what feels easy right now (following what the mob leaders say) is easy, but you and your children end up suffering for not defending real common sense against the selfish coaxing of a violent minority elite.

[NYYS]

Do they have municipal tennis courts where you live?

Yeah, and I use them. Except in the winter, when I have to go to the YMCA to play.

I think if you can afford your own tennis court that's great & good luck to you.

Well I can't because I'm a broke ass college student, I was just using "I" as an example.

But I also think it would do youself & the local ruffians no end of good if you also played at the local park.

Nope. I hate the local courts. They cut down all the trees around them so they're hot and shade-less in the summer, not to mention ugly looking. On top of that you have to wait in line for old people and young kids with no idea what the hell they're doing to play, and then there is an hour limit so everyone gets a chance to play. And people who take lessons and their four hundred balls roll onto your court while you're trying to play. They're also hard courts (which I personally like) but if I were older I would want clay courts (much easier on the knees and slows the game down), which I wouldn't have access to without joining a private club or building my own.

If I owned my own tennis court (which I could only build on property I own) I wouldn't have to wait in line, I wouldn't have to deal with balls rolling onto my court, I could build it in a shady area, the courts could be whatever surface I like, I could play as long as I want, and there would be no commute to get there. Now substitute all that for a pool or a garden or a basketball court or whatever other stuff people like to have.

I understand you are quite good at tennis!

What makes you think that?

most of the functions of suburban backyards (tennis, swing sets, small swimming "pool", barbecue pit...) can be better handled by a collective facility

No, they are always handled far, far worse. It is infinitely preferable to have your own.

car-port

haha, awesome

Let's face it: this isn't about building onto your house to accomodate an extended family, this was about competing with your neighbors for "king of the subdivision."

You must have grown up in a hideous suburb. Around here you can't even see your neighbor's house, so competing with them is kind of stupid.

[Dr House]

Yes, but insulating them is another story.

Tropical climate. No need for insulation. We do, however, bear the brunt of most hurricanes and need houses that can withstand that.

Guess I shouldn't say "we" anymore, I moved out of PR 2 years ago.

[QatzelOk]

NYYS doesn't like his society's public spaces any more because:

you have to wait in line for old people and young kids

1. there are different kinds of people

with no idea what the hell they're doing

2. some of whom could use his help

there is an hour limit so everyone gets a chance to play

3. and it involves cooperation and sharing

Your anti-social repulsion at your own society makes me wonder if private tennis courts should even be legal in America.

[NYYS]

there are different kinds of people

Damn right, and it's my right to choose not to interact with them and their right to choose not to interact with me.

some of whom could use his help

I teach tennis during the summer. I do help them, but occasionally I like to be able to play for me, on my time, without having to call a let every other point because some kid pulled a forehand into my court.

and it involves cooperation and sharing

Correct. When I use the public courts I do share them, because they're not mine, but if I didn't have to share them... perhaps I want to play best of three sets? Best of five sets? Maybe I like the exercise or just enjoy the game? What is my option then? I don't have one, it's one hour and get lost. If I had a private court I wouldn't have to worry about that at all.

Your anti-social repulsion at your own society makes me wonder if private tennis courts should even be legal in America.

You are arguing that I should be forced to do something against my will at a lower level because it meets Qatzel's definition of social fairness. That I should not be allowed to take it upon myself to rectify the situation, at the expense of no one else, just so I am forced to play in the same miserable conditions as everyone else.

No thanks. When I can afford it I'll be putting in a tennis court.

[QatzelOk]

at the expense of no one else

If you want to go into a jungle and build a tennis court with your bare hands, then go ahead. Just don't ask your society to contribute in any way to your anti-social consumption patterns by providing you with prime agricultural land or roads.

[Dr House]

Sure we can... we just pay them . If they think it against their principles they will not accept doing it.

[hannu]

What makes you think that?

Because you were a tennis hich school champ. Which means you are either good at tennis or your opposition were no good.

Did you know Pancho Gonzalles learnt to play tennis on a municipal court & was once married to Andre Agassi's sister?

Well I can't because I'm a broke ass college student, I was just using "I" as an example.

Sorry, I was foolishly under the impression that you had some clout & had already "made it" so to speak. Practical experience counts for a lot in my book. You weren't telling porkies about your sporting prowess as well were you?

[NYYS]

If you want to go into a jungle and build a tennis court with your bare hands, then go ahead. Just don't ask your society to contribute in any way to your anti-social consumption patterns by providing you with prime agricultural land or roads.

Actually, society would love it if I built a tennis court. First, and most obviously, I'd be providing jobs for everyone involved in the construction of the court, and paying them a mutually agreed upon wage.

Second, I'm not using the public courts. People don't have to wait for me to finish, and people don't have to toss back balls I hit into their court, and people don't have listen to me yell and blurt out obscenities if I'm playing badly. No one benefits from me (or anyone else) playing at the public courts. If I'm gone people don't have to wait in line, people don't have to deal with more balls on their courts, and people don't have to explain to little kids what that string of swears meant.

Face it, you have absolutely no reason not to want someone to build a private tennis court other than this ludicrous pipe dream that if everyone is forced to share equally shitty conditions things can be "fair." You want nothing more than to make people do things they don't want to do.

Because you were a tennis hich school champ.

Did I say that on this forum? Shit, I share way too much about my personal life. Oh well, sharp memory I guess.

Did you know Pancho Gonzalles learnt to play tennis on a municipal court & was once married to Andre Agassi's sister?

Good for him. I'm not saying that public courts should be banned, in fact, I'd be outraged if they were. People need a place to play, otherwise just to learn to play they'd have to shell out a ton of money only to maybe find out that they don't like it.

[QatzelOk]

...everyone is forced to share equally shitty conditions...

Well, maybe the poorer parts of New Orleans could have municipal tennis courts, and you could have whatever you want.

[NYYS]

Sounds good to me. If I make more money by performing a more valuable service, then I get to spend that money how I see fit, usually on goods and services that convenience me.

Otherwise why should I spend time and money making my labor more valuable? No reward means there is no reason to try to become anything, since in Qatzelopia no matter how awesome a job I do at the most valuable and important job ever I am not allowed to buy nice things.

So yeah, you're damn right I can buy whatever I want.

[hannu]

No one benefits from me (or anyone else) playing at the public courts.

Nonsense.

If you're good at something then the least that will happen is that other people will benefit from you by watching you demonstrate what you are good at.

[NYYS]

No one cares whether I'm good at tennis or not. No one is going to stop and watch because a better player turned up. It's not that interesting and I'm not that good. If Roger Federer showed up I'd want him to hurry up and get off so that I can play.

Which brings up another point... in Qatzel's world, are the pros forced to practice on the public courts with a one-hour time limit as well?

[hannu]

No one cares whether I'm good at tennis or not. No one is going to stop and watch because a better player turned up. It's not that interesting and I'm not that good. If Roger Federer showed up I'd want him to hurry up and get off so that I can play.

So no-one in the World is interested in watching sport & no-one is interested in learning first hand from watching better players?

And if Roger Federer was on your local municipal court you wouldn't watch him or even ask him for a game you'd just want him off the court as soon as possible?

Unbelievable.

[Vera Politica]

Owning a house gives you privacy, flexibility, autonomous decision-making, and a whole variety of other things that public housing can't. Not to mention the positive financial reasons to own a house (here's a hint: they appreciate). Having lived in both a house in the suburbs and an apartment in the city I can say with full confidence that I 100% prefer having a house.

Not owning a house is stupid.

The appreciation on house-value is one of the biggest myths perpetuated in this day and age. In fact, long-term, houses rarely appreciate more than inflation plus interest, and many times you end up dishing out much more.

Property with revenue is a different story. In Montreal, plexes became the norm because people were too poor to afford a house, but in the end they made good returns.

But here's the problem. If you invest in a house in 1970 in, Canada, for example and buy it for 63000$, the house - today- must be worth about 345000$ to break even on the original 63000$ when considering inflation, and this doesn't include the interest paid. For a 10% return on the return, in dollars, 'invested' or rather borrowed in 1970, your house needs to be worth an additional 40 000$ in today's money (and we're talking Canadian, I don't even want to go to American denominated assets).
Suppose you borrowed 60000 with 3000 down and your looking at 5% interest over 25 years, at the 25th year, your looking at a 55 000$ loss in 1995 dollars, which amounts to 70 000 2007 dollars. so your looking at 415 000$ just to break even on your original investment. 455 000$ just to make a 10% return on your original investment over 37 years.

People hardly ever consider inflation when looking at house prices.

[Theoretically Speaking]

While I don't currently own a house, I do live in suburbia, and I wouldn't give it up for the world. I've owned houses before, but I've been moving around a lot in the past couple of years, so it hasn't made much sense to own. However, I still rent houses in suburbia, as opposed to apartments downtown.

Houses are typically larger, and with larger rooms, which I prefer. Suburbia also typically has a lower crime rate (sometimes MUCH lower). Houses also often have a covered and locked place to put your car- I much prefer that also, than parking it in an open parking lot...that most especially applies to my motorcycles. I also like to have a private yard, where I can go out to enjoy the sunshine, or throw some steaks on the grill. Finally, the rules regarding pets are generally much more liberal when you own, or even rent, a house. My wife loves her pets, and if she's not happy, I don't get to be happy. I socialize all day long with the people I work with. I socialize every time I leave my home. I'd like to have SOME time to spend with just my family, or even by myself.

Choosing to live in suburbia isn't all roses, of course. I have to endure a grueling 1 hour plus commute to work every weekday. Still, it's more than worth it for what I get. Besides, I don't typically work in the city I live, anyway, and when I'm at a client location, I always choose a hotel that is close to the client's office, so that I have an easy commute. I only have to drive to the office during those times (like now) that I am between projects.

How about this? You live where you wanna live, and I'll live where I want to. K?

[QatzelOk]

You live where you wanna live, and I'll live where I want to. K?

As long as you pay for your own highways, infrastructure and pollution damage and agricultural land destruction, then I am fine with that.

But anything less than this is an infringement of my right NOT to subsidize your reckless lifestyle.

I don't ask you to roll my joints or call my dealer, don't expect me to risk my own safety and work harder for your frivolous lifestyle extravagances.

[Theoretically Speaking]

As long as you pay for your own highways, infrastructure and pollution damage and agricultural land destruction, then I am fine with that.

Oh, I do. My tax bill is quite high, including my gas taxes that supposedly pay for roads. My rent is quite high, which goes towards my landlord paying his mortgage, which goes to paying for the infrastructure. As far as agricultural land destruction, I live in the U.S., there is more than enough agricultural land. As far as pollution damage, I don't see how my house has really added to pollution all that much. Maybe while the land was being cleared, the machines that did it belched out a bit of diesel waste, but that part didn't last very long. The fact is, the land is far more resilient to erosion than it was before the houses in my neighborhood were built, and building on the land in this area has seriously cut down on dust storms in the area.

[NYYS]

Yeah, actually Qatzel the rich pay some huge portion of our total tax revenue. I believe upwards of 90%. So really the only point you could have there is environmental damage, but once the government gets moving on that the rich will pay for the vast majority of it as well.

[Rancid]

Ok Qatz,

let's say i wanted to build a pool. The plan would be to fill the pool with goats blood, then line the pool up with gargoyles for the sacrifices.

what kind of property tax would you suggest i pay?