[Huntster]

The conversation was, Claim: state run enterprises are no way to do business in a democracy. Rebuttal: They can work well, to the benefit of many.

you are hijacking the thread.

The thread title is "Time for this Liberal to Move to the Right".

I'm wondering if, because of your love and praise of state run business enterprises, you support liberal immigration policies so that others can share your enjoyment of these state run business enterprises...............


...............or if you've "moved to the right" in immigration policy so that you enjoy them with just a few BC residents.

In light of your recent post to PBVB, I end this conversation as I lack the belief you are arguing in good faith.

You have given me nothing to have faith in, despite me asking for it repeatedly "in good faith".

[PBVBROOK]

Hunster. If you spent half as much time talking about your position rather than posting dictionary entries and quotes other people have made perhaps people would take you seriously. Bomb throwing is declasse.

Now foam away.

[Huntster]

Hunster. If you spent half as much time talking about your position rather than posting dictionary entries and quotes other people have made perhaps people would take you seriously.

Do you really think I'm naive enough to believe that shit?

You're as entrenched as I, and so is everybody else on this board.

Bomb throwing is declasse.

Yeah. That's why I like the idea of killing terrorists. We don't need them.

Now foam away.

No, thanks, Liberal.

[Suska]

power dynamics are the same at any level. Working for a small, more "personable" organization rather than a huge, "faceless" national or international organization didn't help one bit.

I see what you're saying, but I don't agree Gletkin. At a local level a great many people can get personally involved. We can't afford to travel to Washington let along send lobbyists to fight international corporations that have huge legal departments. Would it have been better than you simply had no chance at all to present your case?

[PBVBROOK]

Can you believe the trailer park mentality, honed by years of Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck; years that would have been better spent finishing a GED, that could possibly believe that calling a liberal a liberal is an insult?



Another perfect recruiting poster for the left.

[Huntster]

Can you believe the trailer park mentality, honed by years of Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck;

1) For the umpteenth time, the "trash" thing kicks your ass (like Prince Benny)

2) And I don't listen to "Right Wing Radio"

Let me tell you a bit about "trailer trash"....................

When I first moved here, "trailers" were top shelf.

Yup. This place was more of a wilderness than you've ever seen;

even in Southeast Asia. (Yeah.........I've been there, too).

It still is. There's nothing to the east until you get to Nova Scotia. Nothing to the west until you get to Moscow (and I'm not talking Idaho).

years that would have been better spent finishing a GED

I'm a high school grad, a military vet, and college grad.

Got "papers".

And a whole bunch more.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

The conservatives want you to move right in order to sabotage the progressive agenda. The answer to Democrats' political problems is for there to be more angry fervor on the left, not a compromising attitude with the right!

The right has no popular mandate for its agenda anymore; only institutional power and their increasingly obstructionist and mean-spirited tactics/bullying is making them effective. If they won't cooperate we just need to take our own gloves off and get tough too. Not violent or corrupt, just hard and tough.

Go on your Facebook account and copy/paste the following phrase about 20 times as a status update: OBAMA AND DEMS ARE BEING TOO CONSERVATIVE, NOT TOO LIBERAL. Write to your newspaper and complain about the Democrats not being tough enough against the right. Look for a local figure who has the charisma to become a 21st century version of Huey Long and scream for more regulation and social spending rather than less. Share Paul Krugman articles with everyone you come in contact with, and encourage fellow liberals to take a louder, harder stance. Once Obama and the Dems see left-wing populist anger emerging they'll feel more invigorated to take on the right wing obstructionists.

[Figlio di Moros]

The right has no popular mandate for its agenda anymore; only institutional power and their increasingly obstructionist and mean-spirited tactics/bullying is making them effective.

And what about the 80% of Americans who want to end illegal immigration? Is that a mandate for progressive internationalism, or just "obstructionist, mean-spirited tactics"? Or those who hate to see American culture bashed or belittled, often as "non-existant"?

[Huntster]

Karl_Bonner_1982 wrote:
The right has no popular mandate for its agenda anymore; only institutional power and their increasingly obstructionist and mean-spirited tactics/bullying is making them effective.

And what about the 80% of Americans who want to end illegal immigration?

Like the European wannabe writes, "Look for a local figure who has the charisma to become a 21st century version of Huey Long and scream for more regulation and social spending rather than less."

Like during the Vietnam years, they'll just scream their way toward their selfish goals.

It worked before when people were tired of them. Why not repeat the assault?

[Stormsmith]

I'm confused with the GOP. They've run up massive debt over the last 30 years, making a mockery of their mocking of the left with the chant of "tax and spend." Frankly, that would be looking good to me about now. The interest payment on the debt is staggering.

So where is the gop today? Are they revisiting the old school of cut spending, cut government? Still banging on about the level of the debt not mattering, because corporate revenues would neutralize the debt, a la supply-side economics, or the Bush leagues' approach of spend, spend and spend somemore, then bill the grandkids?

[Genghis Khan]

Getting back to the original idea of this thread:

Conservatives have been blocking healthcare reform, but I'm not talking about republicans. Conservative dems should be an oxymoron, but apparently it isn't.

I'm not talking about cleansing the party completely until only hardcore liberals remain. The presence of some moderates is welcome to balance the ideas, but being a conservative in the democratic party is just stupid.

The fact that healthcare reform has been tough is to be expected. It's by far the biggest domestic issue this country has faced in decades. It has countless variables and it's close to impossible to agreeing on everything, even among liberals. It's worth the hassle, though.

So I really don't see how going to the right accomplishes anything.

[DanDaMan]

The fact that healthcare reform has been tough is to be expected. It's by far the biggest domestic issue this country has faced in decades. It has countless variables and it's close to impossible to agreeing on everything, even among liberals. It's worth the hassle, though.

So I really don't see how going to the right accomplishes anything.

Simple.
The right is the party of the here and now which is called REALITY.
The left, like you, totally ignore the debt and the debasing of the dollar and what it does to our living standard and that of our children.
This is why the Left is far more intolerant and uncaring than the Right. They don't give a damn who it hurts tomorrow.

[Genghis Khan]

The right is the party of the here and now which is called REALITY.
The left, like you, totally ignore the debt and the debasing of the dollar and what it does to our living standard and that of our children.
This is why the Left is far more intolerant and uncaring than the Right. They don't give a damn who it hurts tomorrow.

Every time I'm worried that you're going to begin a hateful partisan speech to attack the other side, you surprise me with your eloquent, soothing, non partisan rhetoric that puts me at ease. HOW do you do it?

[Beal]

No amount of reason will convince the teabaggers or the Republicans in Congress whose re-election campaigns depend on donations from the health insurance industry.

From opensecrets.org

2010 Election Cycle Donations by Industry

Health Care Professionals: 55% Democrat
Insurance: 53% Democrat
Pharmaceuticals: 57% Democrat

[JohnRawls]

Don't know how i missed this one by Brook. But he seemed to make a good point . My political views have shifted a bit to the right under the influence of some people on this forum . Mainly Dave though , cause he had some sane ideas about the economy. I still remain a socialist centrist in heart , well a bit more righter version of it.

As of now , i do agree , Obama is failing to reform healthcare because
a) He doesn't have a constructive plan anymore ( I doubt that it will reduce the costs now with all the tempering )
b) It is better not to do anything and let the ship sink than to just make the hole in the ship bigger and let it sink faster . Heck may be someone else will find a better idea than you . [ NO DanDaMan , reducing taxes will just tear the ship apart , because it will make the deficit and the debt bigger , this will be the equivalent of nuking yourself for the fun of it ]

Europe and America should go a bit more right i guess and as Brook stressed it , economy should get heavily regulated. Hearing Palson at some meeting some time ago making sence about fixing the economy made me happy . He seems to plan to regulate the financial sector a lot more which is a good sign.

Some other notable things are 'regulated' immigration . We should restrict it to an extent because due to the crysis we can't afford unlimited immigration.

We should also increase our exports but doing that would take time and patience and surely regulated financial sector because we can make loads of money of financial 'cheating' with almost no personal consequences . ( Our crysis doesn't count , since people with a lot of money really don't care about it , actually they are happy about it , it is easier to make business during such hard times . You can put it like this ' In devastation and Chaos , there is profit and opportunity ' . )

[TheRedMenace]

The left, like you, totally ignore the debt and the debasing of the dollar and what it does to our living standard and that of our children.
This is why the Left is far more intolerant and uncaring than the Right. They don't give a damn who it hurts tomorrow.

Yes, the republicans were definitely not increasing the debt for the last 8 years. It was a leftist who said "deficits don't matter."

[DanDaMan]

DanDaMan wrote:
The left, like you, totally ignore the debt and the debasing of the dollar and what it does to our living standard and that of our children.
This is why the Left is far more intolerant and uncaring than the Right. They don't give a damn who it hurts tomorrow.

Yes, the republicans were definitely not increasing the debt for the last 8 years. It was a leftist who said "deficits don't matter."

I think we shall see the Democrats and the Republicans both running to the right in order to keep their positions.

[JohnRawls]

If by right you mean lower taxes than no . But if by right you mean higher taxes than yes .

[DanDaMan]

taxing will solve nothing. The government just thinks of it as more to spend. They spend like women do.
We need to cut their spending and cut up their printing press.


As for PBV's original post... I suggest you ask him why he thinks his progressive argument would change for the better in the future when it can't be won today.
Does he know something we don't know about some coming change in logic and reality?

[JohnRawls]

So tax CUTS are gonna DECREASE deficit and debt ?

Do you also believe in Tooth Fairies ?