[Godstud]

Rwanda’s killing fields
A legacy of imperialism
http://socialistworld.net/eng/2004/04/11rwanda.html

http://en.internationalism.org/wr/274_france_rwanda.htm
Genocide in Rwanda: The crimes of French imperialism

[politburo player]

We had 6% growth when places like the US had -2% in 2008. This year the percentage is going to be 7-8% or more. Some places like Angola (which you mentioned) have 10% economic growth!

Almost all countries that are part of the 'developing world' have GDP growth higher than the 'developed world'. The downside to this is that when things go downhill, developing countries' GDP growth usually plunges more than the GDP of developed countries. Kenya seems to have its act together compared to most African countries, no doubt thanks to business friendly policies. If only South Africa could learn from this.

[Okonkwo]

[If you cannot debate properly, refrain from posting at all or I will have to delete the whole thread. Thank you.]

[flickerstorm]

who is not debating properly? Please point out the specific posts so that in the future we know what to avoid

also, please don't delete this thread. You can lock it, but black African civilisation has been neglected for so long it would be a shame to have the few efforts to bring it forth being erased .

[Kaspar]

Kenya seems to have its act together compared to most African countries, no doubt thanks to business friendly policies. If only South Africa could learn from this.

You honestly think it's easier doing business in Kenya than it is in South Africa? According to the World Bank rankings of business friendly nations, South Africa ranks 34, just behind France and the Netherlands. Kenya ranks 95, just after Moldova.

I would just like to know where you get ideas like that from. Is it just your gut feeling that for some reason Kenya has more business friendly policies than South Africa?

[politburo player]

Is it just your gut feeling that for some reason Kenya has more business friendly policies than South Africa?

Kenya doesn't have BEE, as well as a menagerie of other Marxist, wealth redistribution policies. Kenya's literacy rate also slaughters South Africa's, which would only lead one to deduce that it has a more educated population capable of filling the country's newly created jobs.

[Ombrageux]

Kenya doesn't have BEE

BEE isn't needed because there isn't a White minority in South Africa that controls 90% (or whatever the number is) of the nation's wealth and industries.

Try again.

[politburo player]

BEE isn't needed because there isn't a White minority in South Africa that controls 90% (or whatever the number is) of the nation's wealth and industries.

Try again.

It shouldn't be needed anyways. Smart people should matriculate into a business system via merit and not skin color you draconian socialist.

Besides, South Africa has scared away a good number of international firms because of burdensome BEE requirements.

[flickerstorm]

this is another topic all together.
I suggest you make a new thread about it.

Also, have you heard of this guy called r3ndid3r? look him up on youtube if you havn't and watch his vids.

[Kaspar]

Kenya doesn't have BEE, as well as a menagerie of other Marxist, wealth redistribution policies. Kenya's literacy rate also slaughters South Africa's, which would only lead one to deduce that it has a more educated population capable of filling the country's newly created jobs.

According to the CIA World Factbook South Africa's literacy rate is 86 %, Kenya's is 85 %.

Again I don't see the point in having a political (or economic) discussion with someone who blatantly ignores factual information. And I would trust the World Bank's opinion on business friendliness in South Africa before the opinion of some guy on a political forum who thinks the ANC is Communist.

[grassroots1]

^Or someone, for that matter, who assumes that prosperity must be because of "business-friendly" policy. That person, my friends, is most likely not seeking productive debate and learning. Interesting how common that is among people who subscribe to libertarianism.

[grassroots1]

To be fair we hear very little from all of those you mentioned, except maybe Chinese dynasties. Do you have any specifics from those eras? Even close to the extent that we have specifics of OUR history?

I don't think it makes sense to question the legitimacy of these claims about African history, from someone who lived in Africa for 8 years, without really examining sources. This is an example of the consistently aggressive argument (not real debate) you've engaged in since you've been here, Oliver.

[Le Rouge]

Why is it we have heard of the aztecs, incas and mayas of the americas, the mongols, the chinese dynasties, the persian empire, babylon, egypt, rome, greece etc from all over the world except sub-saharan africa..?

The Mende? The Zimbabwean Empire? the Zulus? the Egyptians? the Ethiopians? The Ghanian Empire? Or the Dahomey?


Oh, I forgot the BaKongo. Just to name a few off the top of my head.

[politburo player]

According to the CIA World Factbook South Africa's literacy rate is 86 %, Kenya's is 85 %.

Well, you may have a point, and I may be factually wrong on literacy in South Africa, but we both know that 86% of South Africa's population are not literate to the same standards as Western countries (Kenya probably isn't as well). That means that only 14% of SA is 'illiterate'?

Functional literacy, i.e. not just knowing how to scribble a few words on a piece of paper with a crayon, but being able to get and maintain a job based on your skills, is certainly much lower in Mandelatopia.

Again I don't see the point in having a political (or economic) discussion with someone who blatantly ignores factual information. And I would trust the World Bank's opinion on business friendliness in South Africa before the opinion of some guy on a political forum who thinks the ANC is Communist.

Oops, I mean 'socialist', I'm sorry!! (Like there's a big fucking difference anyways when were talking about corrupt African regimes)

[grassroots1]

Have you been drinking?

Two beers. Want to give me a real response now?

Functional literacy, i.e. not just knowing how to scribble a few words on a piece of paper with a crayon, but being able to get and maintain a job based on your skills, is certainly much lower in Mandelatopia.

What do you not understand about providing evidence? For fuck's sake!

[Le Rouge]

All I am saying is that I have never head of any african civilization that is all and that others as I have mentioned are more well known to me at least.

Erm, well your ignorance is not my job to deal with. Just because you haven't studied African history doesn't mean I, and others qualified to talk about African history, haven't.

[grassroots1]

It's not ignorance, it's a lack of knowledge.

Did I miss something?

[Le Rouge]

I'm not an Afrocentrist, I'm an African histor...y student. I disagree with Afrocentrism as well as Eurocentrism, though definitely I find the former much less abusive and deluded than the latter. Surely it doesn't take much to have learned of ancient Ethiopia, Egypt, and Ghana--all of which I learned in World History (by my semi-racist, Vietnam vet teach no-less). I learned of ancient Zimbabwe in an encyclopedia ('z') as a child. The others I have learned of since attending college. I would say the aforementioned African civilizations are paralleled or more developed than the Mongols, the Maya, the ancient Persians, and Incas.

[politburo player]

I would say the aforementioned African civilizations are paralleled or more developed than the Mongols, the Maya, the ancient Persians, and Incas.

More resistant to European germs for sure.

African civilizations (Ethiopia, etc.) were never pyramid builders like the Egyptains, Maya, Aztecs, etc. (and thus maybe not good engineers) or structure builders (save for mud) and they never had those badass astrological charts, maps, and calendars.

BTW, have any of you seen "Ancient Aliens" in the History channel?

[flickerstorm]

More resistant to European germs for sure.

African civilizations (Ethiopia, etc.) were never pyramid builders like the Egyptains, Maya, Aztecs, etc. (and thus maybe not good engineers) or structure builders (save for mud) and they never had those badass astrological charts, maps, and calendars..

oh my god. Were you not reading when I posted about Africans making maps of the stars in 33BC? steel for 1500 years? The greatest man made structures from before the industrial revolution?

BTW, there are more pyramids in Sudan than there are in Egypt. Just wanted to let you know

Yes, ancient Africans (excluding Egyptians) were not as great in terms of engineering as Europeans, which is evident in hoe almost all of africa was conquered by Europeans in the span of a single century. But this stems more from the lack of building materials than from the lack of intelligence. Do you know how the Romans invented concrete? They stumbled upon it because concrete is made of ash, and up in the mountains there is plenty of ash to build concrete structures. Could you point me to a place in Africa with that much natural ash that can be used for concrete?

The past 100 thousand years are hardly enough for the brain to evolve in any meaningful way. If you don't get it then I am at a loss what to say to you.

On a side note, would you guys want me to open a thread about modern Africa?